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Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct > Examples of behavior that co
by ericpruitt 10mo ago
Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct
> Examples of behavior that contribute to creating a positive environment include:
> - Using welcoming and inclusive language.
> - Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences.
> - Showing empathy towards others.
> - Showing appreciation for others’ work.
- quantummagic 10mo agoCodes of conduct are perfunctory virtue signalling. Do we really need a unique set of "rules" posted on every project? They all sound like they were written by the same AI bot. That said, it's telling that the Zig leader can't even follow them. The rules should just be taken down.
- LtWorf 10mo agoOh my code of conduct allows using profanities but not directing them at people :D
- SanjayMehta 10mo agoCoC are the HR department of open source.
- serial_dev 10mo ago> HR is to protect the company, not the employee The CoC is not there to protect the community, but to protect all the bad actors and give ammunition to attack the good ones. Happens every time, the maintainers who add CoCs to projects have no problem being an ahole to others. Update: I know some people love their CoCs, but answer me this, how is this kind of childish name calling allowed and still online, if what I wrote above is not true?
- prmoustache 10mo ago> Update: I know some people love their CoCs, but answer me this, how is this kind of childish name calling allowed and still online, if what I wrote above is not true? Where you born 30 minutes ago to not have realized yet that people are not infallible, are subjects of emotions and contradict themselves all the time?
- duped 10mo agoIt's helpful when people are being assholes to point to a document describing how they're being an asshole and to cut it out
- jakobnissen 10mo agoIs it really? In this example, could you not see anything wrong with calling employees losers and monkeys, until someone linked you the CoC?
- serial_dev 10mo agoTo add to it, the post is still calling people losers and monkeys, so the CoC is clearly not working properly.
- prmoustache 10mo agoYes the same way laws don't eradicate delinquency and crime magically. Humans are humans.
- amake 10mo agoMight as well get rid of laws against murder because sometimes people commit murder anyway?
- ifh-hn 10mo agoNot the same thing at all. There's consequences for murder, absolutely none for not abiding by this CoC; as clearly seen by the fact the posted remains as is.
- graemep 10mo agoA better analogy would be getting rid of laws against murder if its unevenly applied so people from a particular group always got away with it.
- hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
- paxcoder 10mo agoThey are also used to exclude control speech and exclude certain people https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestration-of-tim https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestr...
- szundi 10mo ago[dead]
- hexbin010 10mo agoA relic from the ZIRP era when people had time and job security to engage in politics and creating drama on Twitter instead of doing their job. Ah the good old days!
- hiddencost 10mo ago[flagged]
- freehorse 10mo agoEvery org has a code of conduct and this is nothing new. How seriously it is taken in each case is a different issue. Code of conduct usually amount to some rules that say “don’t be an asshole to others”. Can’t see why this is problematic or “virtue signaling”.
- miki123211 10mo agoCoCs are like HoAs. The people behind them are usually well-intentioned, and they certainly have their place, yet they're still quite dangerous. If the wrong kind of person gets into a position of enforcement, they can basically do whatever they wish, with no due process, recourse or principles of law being observed.
- cobertos 10mo agoThis is not a problem with CoCs, but authority in general. A CoC is still a useful communication tool. Guidelines are useful to have.
- LtWorf 10mo agoYou get penalised in some ways if you don't have a code of conduct. For example github will nag you about having one.
- armchairhacker 10mo agoCoCs are useful at least for autists. They don’t have to be unique for every project. A good CoC for most projects is: “tl;dr: don’t act rude or illegal”, followed by a detailed explanation of what is rude or illegal, ending with “project maintainers have final discretion”.
- dijit 10mo agoI've got skin in this game: Grew up in UK's social services with undiagnosed mental health quirks; too "smart" for ADHD, too "social" for autism, per my assessors. Ended up in classes thick with neurodivergent kids, from non-verbal to quirky misfits. Plus, I've moderated an IRC community for 20 years, where text chats strip away nuance like a bad compression algorithm, leaving everything ripe for misinterpretation. I'm sharing these facts not to "credential-dump", but to underscore: This comment comes from compassion, not condescension. Vague CoCs bug me because they're well-intentioned landmines. Take "don't be an asshole"; it could mean "act in good faith" (why not just say that?), or morph into "don't seem condescending" based on who's reading. Pair that with commitments to safe spaces for neurodivergence, like autism (where social cues in text can be a foggy maze), and you've got a recipe for unintended clashes. An earnest comment misfires, gets flagged as jerkish, and boom: escalation via subjective enforcement. I've flagged this before: good faith-vague inclusivity can ironically exclude through feelings-based policing, which is how communities often roll anyway. So, why not tighten rules for clarity? Swap "don't be an asshole" for "assume good intent and clarify misunderstandings." It'd make safe spaces safer for all, autists included. I don't doubt I'll get a tirade of "how can you call Autistic people assholes" just like always, totally missing the point on purpose.
- armchairhacker 10mo agoHence the detailed explanation after "don't be rude". And "maintainers have final say" is 1) another otherwise-unwritten rule (it's true regardless), and 2) justifies banning repeat offenders when the maintainers don't have time to keep writing specific rules for them, and there's a vanishingly small chance they're not acting in bad faith. Also, when people cause social issues, they should be reprimanded referencing specific parts of the CoC, and in most cases given warnings or opportunities to recover. For when the person causing the issue genuinely isn't aware what they're doing is wrong and can learn to be tolerable; and even when the person is completely bad faith, for unaware bystanders to learn what's right and wrong. Diagnosed autistic people aren't the only ones who suffer from unwritten social cues. Also people from other cultures, e.g. where rudeness is considered more acceptable.
- MrBuddyCasino 10mo agoNot even virtue, codes of conduct just signals leftist control over an organisation.
- Iridescent_ 10mo ago[flagged]
- otikik 10mo agoUS leftists, or non-US leftists?
- MrBuddyCasino 10mo agoWhats the difference? Both are (or were) funded by NGOs and the state department.
- otikik 10mo agoUS has a special definition for what constitutes "left" that doesn't apply outside. Compared to European leftists, US leftists are center-right.
- MrBuddyCasino 10mo agoCharlie Kirk was shot by a center-right guy on September 10, 2025? Luigi Mangione shot the UnitedHealthcare CEO December 4, 2024 and had an anti-capitalist manifesto, was he center right? What about Elias Rodriguez (leftist activist, Israeli Embassy Staff Shooting)? Michael Reinoehl (antifa) who shot Aaron Danielson? "No Kings" Vance Boelter who shot two politicians? "Anti-ICE" Joshua Jahn who killed two detainees and wounding an agent in the Dallas ICE Facility Sniper Attack? US leftists are the same murderous closeted communists as they are everywhere else. They assassinate people (see recent cases), perform terrorist attacks (peaking at ~500 (!) bombings in 1971), form mobs to socially ostracise people they don't agree with, distribute brazen propaganda in mass media and subvert every organisation they join.
- skullt 10mo agoI would think leaders sometimes not following their own codes of conduct is the strongest argument in favor of having them: yes, they are obvious to everyone but they are also evidently easy to forget in the heat of the moment. It's a standard of behavior to strive for not one statically attainable. Reminders are needed and that's the purpose their deliberate codifying serves.
- lolidiots 10mo ago[flagged]
- harry8 10mo agoThere is a difference between what you say to and about volunteers working for free on their hobby and what you say about the work of a company famously known as "The Death Star" You want to work with people and the group says "yay and this is how we will work together" you do that or go away. This is entirely separate to stating a universal truth such as "Microsoft product blows because they do not care", "Oracle sucks" or famously "You can't anthropomorphise Larry Ellison" Did Linus ever blow-torch community volunteers or did he get the pip purely with big corp submitting paid trash for their own purposes? He seems to cop a fair bit himself from people saying thou shalt not... The standards differ. Microsoft is going to be ok guys.
- ChrisGreenHeur 10mo agoMicrosoft is actually just a group of people as well.
- maybewhenthesun 10mo agoAll companies are 'a group of people'. But that's not how you treat them. You should treat the individual employees of microsoft as the people they are. You should treat microsoft as a whole as the evil entity it is (TBF they're not worse than apple or google or etc...)
- lozenge 10mo agoBut the post isn't talking about Microsoft, it's specifically calling the people that work on GitHub monkeys.
- harry8 10mo agoYou should also consider the point of view of anyone working on github and being paid by microsoft but who actually does care. Note that they are not named and shamed or anything like that. Do you think there is a chance these hypothetical engineers who care actually want this kind of thing said publicly? And said as poetically invictive laden as possible? The rationale being that they might use such sentiment to get management to see the danger and /start/ caring about product quality? I've never worked for microsoft. In my experience when product goes into quality decline, rubbish management is >90% of the reason. How futile is fighting that? How futile is fighting it for github? Does github matter in general? My own use is so limited it doesn't directly matter to me. Indirectly it might well do.
- throwawaymaths 10mo agococ says this: > This document contains the rules that govern these spaces only: > The ziglang organization on Codeberg > #zig IRC channel on Libera.chat > Zig project development Zulip chat doesnt seem to include the zig page!! so no, it does not violate CoC
- throwaway150 10mo ago> Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct Not sure it does. Right there in the same link you posted: This document contains the rules that govern these spaces only: The ziglang organization on Codeberg #zig IRC channel on Libera.chat Zig project development Zulip chat
- otikik 10mo agoIt may not violate the letter of the document, but it does seem to violate its spirit to me.
- ameixaseca 10mo agoI believe any reasonable person could understand the previous comment is about the rules themselves, not about a statement in the CoC saying where they apply or not. Also, the fact that the website is not covered by the CoC makes it worse, since the leadership is excluding themselves from their own engagement rules.
- snarf_br 10mo agoHonestly, I don't see where it violates that code of conduct. Luckily, no one cares about my (or your) opinions on that matter because, as far as I can tell, neither of us have contributed anything to Zig.