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The incremental improvements to the engine thrust is par for the course. The exciting thing in this announcement is the new 9x4 configuration (9 and 4 engines

The incremental improvements to the engine thrust is par for the course. The exciting thing in this announcement is the new 9x4 configuration (9 and 4 engines in the first and second stages vs the current 7x2). They don't mention whether the tanks will get stretched to allow for more fuel, or if this just burns the fuel faster. Starship generations keep getting both more engines and longer.

zaphoyd 10mo ago
Based on the photo posted by the Blue Origin CEO the tanks are definitely getting stretched (also looks like a slightly different fin, landing leg, and fairing config)
DennisP 10mo ago
Yep, 70 tons to LEO is more than the Falcon Heavy.
- testing22321 10mo ago
  Thing that doesn’t exist yet will have better specs than thing that’s been in use for over 7 years! News at 10
  - somenameforme 10mo ago
    > Thing that doesn’t exist yet will, ideally, have 6% better specs than thing that’s been in use for over 7 years! FYP as it's rather worse than you framed. I'm happy to see more competition in space, because I think it's the single most important domain for humanity. And Blue Origin is making some rapid improvements, but people are dramatically overstating both this and their history/role in space quite significantly. Blue Origin was founded before SpaceX, back in 2000, and only managed to send a rocket into orbit this year, 25 years later. They remain a complete nonplayer that exists only through the good fortune of endless and clearly unconditional Bezos bucks. Now if they can keep putting out some good results, ideally start producing some hardware that can compete in terms of price and capability, and generally scaling things up - then I'll be the first to sing their praises. But we're still quite a ways away from that point for now.
  - DennisP 10mo ago
    I'm just comparing specs, not dissing anybody. SpaceX of course also has Starship, which may well be fully operational by then.
bryanlarsen 10mo ago
Yup, the thrust improvements were expected. The BE-4 engines have quite a low chamber pressure for their engine class, so they can gain significant performance just by increasing chamber pressure. Additionally, the New Glenn fairings are very large for their weight capacity. New Glenn has 3x the fairing volume compared to the Falcon Heavy, but can throw less mass. So many expected that BO designed it this way because they expected to increase performance of their engines in the future, making the weight/volume ratio of their fairing more balanced. New Glenn has 45t of capacity now. Increasing thrust by 15% should increase that to 51t, thus making New Glenn 7x2 also just barely a Super Heavy booster. Perhaps they didn't call that out because that would overshadow the 9x4 announcement.
- adgjlsfhk1 10mo ago
  > New Glenn has 3x the fairing volume compared to the Falcon Heavy, but can throw less mass. To be fair, the Falcon Heavy has way too little fairing volume for it's lift capacity (and apparently it is in the process of getting an extra 50% or so?)
  - throwaway48476 10mo ago
    Because the falcon boosters have to be road transportable.
    - bryanlarsen 10mo ago
      The fairings aren't constrained to the diameter of the booster, they already have a larger diameter than the booster. The small size of the Falcon Heavy fairing is probably due to the fact that they are the same size as the Falcon fairing, and it was designed when Falcon could throw < 1/2 the mass it can currently throw, let alone the Falcon Heavy.
      - throwaway48476 10mo ago
        Theoretically the fairing could be any size, but there is a limit to how much bigger than the rocket it can be.
JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> incremental improvements to the engine thrust is par for the course Blue Origin is matching from Raptor 2 to Raptor 3. Comparing thrust at sea level, lbf: Raptor 2 | 507,000 [1] Raptor 3 | 617,000 [1] BE-4 | 557,143 BE-4' | 642,857 BE-3U | 160,000 BE-3U' | 200,000 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton-force#Tonne-force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton-force#Tonne-force

zaphoyd 10mo ago

Based on the photo posted by the Blue Origin CEO the tanks are definitely getting stretched (also looks like a slightly different fin, landing leg, and fairing config)

DennisP 10mo ago

Yep, 70 tons to LEO is more than the Falcon Heavy.

testing22321 10mo ago
Thing that doesn’t exist yet will have better specs than thing that’s been in use for over 7 years! News at 10
- somenameforme 10mo ago
  > Thing that doesn’t exist yet will, ideally, have 6% better specs than thing that’s been in use for over 7 years! FYP as it's rather worse than you framed. I'm happy to see more competition in space, because I think it's the single most important domain for humanity. And Blue Origin is making some rapid improvements, but people are dramatically overstating both this and their history/role in space quite significantly. Blue Origin was founded before SpaceX, back in 2000, and only managed to send a rocket into orbit this year, 25 years later. They remain a complete nonplayer that exists only through the good fortune of endless and clearly unconditional Bezos bucks. Now if they can keep putting out some good results, ideally start producing some hardware that can compete in terms of price and capability, and generally scaling things up - then I'll be the first to sing their praises. But we're still quite a ways away from that point for now.
- DennisP 10mo ago
  I'm just comparing specs, not dissing anybody. SpaceX of course also has Starship, which may well be fully operational by then.

bryanlarsen 10mo ago

Yup, the thrust improvements were expected. The BE-4 engines have quite a low chamber pressure for their engine class, so they can gain significant performance just by increasing chamber pressure. Additionally, the New Glenn fairings are very large for their weight capacity. New Glenn has 3x the fairing volume compared to the Falcon Heavy, but can throw less mass. So many expected that BO designed it this way because they expected to increase performance of their engines in the future, making the weight/volume ratio of their fairing more balanced. New Glenn has 45t of capacity now. Increasing thrust by 15% should increase that to 51t, thus making New Glenn 7x2 also just barely a Super Heavy booster. Perhaps they didn't call that out because that would overshadow the 9x4 announcement.

adgjlsfhk1 10mo ago
> New Glenn has 3x the fairing volume compared to the Falcon Heavy, but can throw less mass. To be fair, the Falcon Heavy has way too little fairing volume for it's lift capacity (and apparently it is in the process of getting an extra 50% or so?)
- throwaway48476 10mo ago
  Because the falcon boosters have to be road transportable.
  - bryanlarsen 10mo ago
    The fairings aren't constrained to the diameter of the booster, they already have a larger diameter than the booster. The small size of the Falcon Heavy fairing is probably due to the fact that they are the same size as the Falcon fairing, and it was designed when Falcon could throw < 1/2 the mass it can currently throw, let alone the Falcon Heavy.
    - throwaway48476 10mo ago
      Theoretically the fairing could be any size, but there is a limit to how much bigger than the rocket it can be.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago

> incremental improvements to the engine thrust is par for the course Blue Origin is matching from Raptor 2 to Raptor 3. Comparing thrust at sea level, lbf: Raptor 2 | 507,000 [1] Raptor 3 | 617,000 [1] BE-4 | 557,143 BE-4' | 642,857 BE-3U | 160,000 BE-3U' | 200,000 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton-force#Tonne-force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton-force#Tonne-force