26 ms·

So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good

by aneutron 10mo ago

So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? If the only issue at hand was indeed security vulnerabilities, then I can see many ways that can constructively address that (e.g. Since a large number of SKUs deployed in the US are managed by the Telcos, then force them to finance the support for continued firmware updates). The US will probably be collecting the reciprocity of their actions, and they won't like it ... It's a very childish game they're playing and it will hurt them in 15 years time ...

usef- 10mo ago
Do you think it's childish in the other direction too? They have been limiting many US products for similar reasons for many years now.
- watwut 10mo ago
  To be entirely honest, yes, American leadership is currently very childish while Chinese one is everything but childish. And the simple observable consequence is that China is winning whatever pissing contest is going on while America is busy shooting itself into own foot, applying bandage and then claiming it won cause it is not bleeding anymore.
  - razakel 10mo ago
    The US only ever plans as far as the next election. China plays the long game.
    - watwut 10mo ago
      I mean, US seems to plan for the next two hours if that lately.
kortilla 10mo ago
> The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? Yes, it’s the US government. Of course it thinks advancing US gov controlled technology is good and CCP influence in the US is bad. That’s a completely rational stance and it’s not even hypocritical until the CCP bans some US product and the US gov complains.
- Yokolos 10mo ago
  > it’s not even hypocritical until the CCP bans some US product and the US gov complains. It's not even hypocritical then. Both sides are protecting their own interests. These interests are partly at odds to each other. They're going to do what they believe is necessary, even if it "seems" hypocritical. That's not a bad thing, that's just ... how things work. China isn't innocent of this either. It's so weird how people are always painting this as "US bad".
  - sumedh 10mo ago
    > That's not a bad thing Except US was all about Capitalism and they have now turned back and embraced Socialism except its socialism for losses and should be paid by the tax payer.
    - mikkupikku 10mo ago
      Libertarian strawmen notwithstanding, there has never been a time when America didn't in some way regulate industry, particularly with regard to matters relevant to national strategic interests. If you're surprised by America doing this, it's because you got lost in a fantasy and forgot to check in with reality.
  - blitzar 10mo ago
    It's so weird how people are always painting this as "China bad"
  - expedition32 10mo ago
    Then look at it from countries that want to protect their sovereignty and culture. The smart move is playing the big guys against eachother not joining either side.
guerrilla 10mo ago
I think it's naive to assuming competing states would be fair. Most of what both say is just propaganda. Their main purpose is to serve their respective overclasses, nothing else.
b112 10mo ago
There's a difference between buying shares, something Western governments have done forever, and owning controlling interest. There's also a difference between owning some shares, which is hands off, and having no legal blocks to killing the CEO's family if he doesn't do as wished. You're comparing false equivalences. Chinese ownership of corporations is entirely different in this context. Even with the current US leadership, no comparison. None.
- llm_nerd 10mo ago
  "Chinese ownership of corporations is entirely different in this context" There is no difference. The US does not effectively have any law or checks on the power of the presidency at this point. Various tech companies had executives literally enlisted in the armed forces. The government has shown, repeatedly, that it will financially penalize any company that doesn't serve their agenda. It has controlled broadcasters and social media and financial organizations. As an outsider looking in, any difference between the US and China is mostly illusory. It has all been revealed to be make believe.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- FactolSarin 10mo ago
  I don't know if you've been paying attention lately, but the US Government is very hands on when it comes to directing businesses these days, and Congress lets the President do whatever he wants, whether strictly legal or not. Do you really not think the current President wouldn't lean as hard on a US corporation as he needed to in order to get whatever he wanted?
  - llm_nerd 10mo ago
    Many, many Americans are in denial about how shockingly the country has fallen. It's just staggering at this point seeing Americans, of all people, warning about Chinese ties with business. I remember everyone fear-mongering because some business member in China had ties with the Communist party. The US is literally commissioning executives from tech companies in the armed forces (https://www.npr.org/2025/07/03/1255164460/1a-army-07-03-2025 https://www.npr.org/2025/07/03/1255164460/1a-army-07-03-2025), business leaders like Elon Musk literally became members of the administration while many more (Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, among many others) are defacto mouthpieces of this administration. Trump is exerting absolute, unchecked, utterly lawless power to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, while occasionally looting those very companies for various kickbacks. The US is currently an international shame, and a shame to 240+ years of its history. It is an abomination compared to all of its historic values and laws and checks. And anyone blind to this, yet still pointing at China, is intellectually defective.
rayiner 10mo ago
> So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? Yes.
mikkupikku 10mo ago
> So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK For America, yes. For China, no. > but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? For America, yes. For China, no. This isn't a case where the "principled high road" has any practical meaning. This is a "You want your side to win but you want their side to lose? You're a hypocrite!" situation.
- Tyrek 10mo ago
  Sure the "principled high road" has meaning. Coming out of the 90's, the US had a dominant position in international institutions and a 'vibe' that it was willing to subordinate its interests in favor of the global community. The post GWOT shift to a 'selfish' position, clearly illustrated here by your argument, reflects the absolute cratering of international public opinion, and frankly the collective loss of trust in a less selfish America.
  - mikkupikku 10mo ago
    With the fall of the Soviet Union and apparent end of the Cold War, many people came to believe that we were at "The End of History", beginning a new era in which major conflicts were a thing of the past, and with that, strategic considerations were seen as a dated anachronism. Future conflicts were anticipated to be small "police" actions, with America filling in not just the role of world police, but also judge, jury and executioner of any country that had a problem with it. Simultaneously, there was obviously a lot of opportunity to loot the former Soviet states, and what better framework for organizing and legitimizing that looting than the "Rules Based International Order", defined and enforced by America, which would disarm any opposition to this looting by framing the looting as economic liberalization. So the 90s vibe you speak of was in fact America imposing a global hegemonic order which was calculated to benifit, if not American interests, then certainly the interests of the western oligarchs who were aligned with America.
EasyMark 10mo ago
The US can't force intel to put back doors in products, but in China you can't refuse to do the same. It really just boils down to that. It is very possible for China to force a Chinese owned company to put in backdoors in hardware and firmware as demanded by it's intelligence agencies. The alternative is going to prison for treason. Network equipment is Prime Real Estate for such a directive. It's a no brainer for me unless tp-link can prove that they have completely moved away from being Chinese owned. If you have any proof that the US government has had Intel, AMD, apple, etc put in backdoors I would love to see it or documents that prove they can force such backdoors.
- aneutron 10mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

usef- 10mo ago

Do you think it's childish in the other direction too? They have been limiting many US products for similar reasons for many years now.

watwut 10mo ago
To be entirely honest, yes, American leadership is currently very childish while Chinese one is everything but childish. And the simple observable consequence is that China is winning whatever pissing contest is going on while America is busy shooting itself into own foot, applying bandage and then claiming it won cause it is not bleeding anymore.
- razakel 10mo ago
  The US only ever plans as far as the next election. China plays the long game.
  - watwut 10mo ago
    I mean, US seems to plan for the next two hours if that lately.

kortilla 10mo ago

> The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? Yes, it’s the US government. Of course it thinks advancing US gov controlled technology is good and CCP influence in the US is bad. That’s a completely rational stance and it’s not even hypocritical until the CCP bans some US product and the US gov complains.

Yokolos 10mo ago
> it’s not even hypocritical until the CCP bans some US product and the US gov complains. It's not even hypocritical then. Both sides are protecting their own interests. These interests are partly at odds to each other. They're going to do what they believe is necessary, even if it "seems" hypocritical. That's not a bad thing, that's just ... how things work. China isn't innocent of this either. It's so weird how people are always painting this as "US bad".
- sumedh 10mo ago
  > That's not a bad thing Except US was all about Capitalism and they have now turned back and embraced Socialism except its socialism for losses and should be paid by the tax payer.
  - mikkupikku 10mo ago
    Libertarian strawmen notwithstanding, there has never been a time when America didn't in some way regulate industry, particularly with regard to matters relevant to national strategic interests. If you're surprised by America doing this, it's because you got lost in a fantasy and forgot to check in with reality.
- blitzar 10mo ago
  It's so weird how people are always painting this as "China bad"
- expedition32 10mo ago
  Then look at it from countries that want to protect their sovereignty and culture. The smart move is playing the big guys against eachother not joining either side.

guerrilla 10mo ago

I think it's naive to assuming competing states would be fair. Most of what both say is just propaganda. Their main purpose is to serve their respective overclasses, nothing else.

b112 10mo ago

There's a difference between buying shares, something Western governments have done forever, and owning controlling interest. There's also a difference between owning some shares, which is hands off, and having no legal blocks to killing the CEO's family if he doesn't do as wished. You're comparing false equivalences. Chinese ownership of corporations is entirely different in this context. Even with the current US leadership, no comparison. None.

llm_nerd 10mo ago
"Chinese ownership of corporations is entirely different in this context" There is no difference. The US does not effectively have any law or checks on the power of the presidency at this point. Various tech companies had executives literally enlisted in the armed forces. The government has shown, repeatedly, that it will financially penalize any company that doesn't serve their agenda. It has controlled broadcasters and social media and financial organizations. As an outsider looking in, any difference between the US and China is mostly illusory. It has all been revealed to be make believe.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
FactolSarin 10mo ago
I don't know if you've been paying attention lately, but the US Government is very hands on when it comes to directing businesses these days, and Congress lets the President do whatever he wants, whether strictly legal or not. Do you really not think the current President wouldn't lean as hard on a US corporation as he needed to in order to get whatever he wanted?
- llm_nerd 10mo ago
  Many, many Americans are in denial about how shockingly the country has fallen. It's just staggering at this point seeing Americans, of all people, warning about Chinese ties with business. I remember everyone fear-mongering because some business member in China had ties with the Communist party. The US is literally commissioning executives from tech companies in the armed forces (https://www.npr.org/2025/07/03/1255164460/1a-army-07-03-2025 https://www.npr.org/2025/07/03/1255164460/1a-army-07-03-2025), business leaders like Elon Musk literally became members of the administration while many more (Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, among many others) are defacto mouthpieces of this administration. Trump is exerting absolute, unchecked, utterly lawless power to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, while occasionally looting those very companies for various kickbacks. The US is currently an international shame, and a shame to 240+ years of its history. It is an abomination compared to all of its historic values and laws and checks. And anyone blind to this, yet still pointing at China, is intellectually defective.

rayiner 10mo ago

> So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK, but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? Yes.

mikkupikku 10mo ago

> So let me get this straight: The US government directly buying stakes in Intel is A-OK For America, yes. For China, no. > but any involvement from the CCP in any form in any company is Not Good ? For America, yes. For China, no. This isn't a case where the "principled high road" has any practical meaning. This is a "You want your side to win but you want their side to lose? You're a hypocrite!" situation.

Tyrek 10mo ago
Sure the "principled high road" has meaning. Coming out of the 90's, the US had a dominant position in international institutions and a 'vibe' that it was willing to subordinate its interests in favor of the global community. The post GWOT shift to a 'selfish' position, clearly illustrated here by your argument, reflects the absolute cratering of international public opinion, and frankly the collective loss of trust in a less selfish America.
- mikkupikku 10mo ago
  With the fall of the Soviet Union and apparent end of the Cold War, many people came to believe that we were at "The End of History", beginning a new era in which major conflicts were a thing of the past, and with that, strategic considerations were seen as a dated anachronism. Future conflicts were anticipated to be small "police" actions, with America filling in not just the role of world police, but also judge, jury and executioner of any country that had a problem with it. Simultaneously, there was obviously a lot of opportunity to loot the former Soviet states, and what better framework for organizing and legitimizing that looting than the "Rules Based International Order", defined and enforced by America, which would disarm any opposition to this looting by framing the looting as economic liberalization. So the 90s vibe you speak of was in fact America imposing a global hegemonic order which was calculated to benifit, if not American interests, then certainly the interests of the western oligarchs who were aligned with America.

EasyMark 10mo ago

The US can't force intel to put back doors in products, but in China you can't refuse to do the same. It really just boils down to that. It is very possible for China to force a Chinese owned company to put in backdoors in hardware and firmware as demanded by it's intelligence agencies. The alternative is going to prison for treason. Network equipment is Prime Real Estate for such a directive. It's a no brainer for me unless tp-link can prove that they have completely moved away from being Chinese owned. If you have any proof that the US government has had Intel, AMD, apple, etc put in backdoors I would love to see it or documents that prove they can force such backdoors.

aneutron 10mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG