7 ms·

Sysco Is Not "Ruining Restaurants"

34 points by liface 11mo ago

kotaKat 11mo ago
Okay, so if Sysco is ruining restaurants, then go eat at a restaurant being served by US Foods and experience the same slop?
- mrgoldenbrown 11mo ago
  Is anyone actually suggesting that? When someone criticizes Amazon they aren't implicitly supporting Walmart. They can both be bad.
firesteelrain 11mo ago
Hugged to death? Anyone have an alternate link?
- liface 11mo ago
  My webhosting seems to be getting DDOSed. Perfect timing :-|
  - __float 11mo ago
    Ah, the cost of spreading bad information on cheap shared hosting.
- jdxcode 11mo ago
  There’s a meme going around that Sysco is “ruining restaurants”, and it’s spreading fast, probably because it feeds way too easily into recurring consumer fears concerning food quality, corporations, and homogenization. The problem is that the meme, like most punchy viral outrage, collapses under basic scrutiny. While there has been some underground Sysco-critical buzz for a while, the idea went viral recently with the release of a video from More Perfect Union called “I Tracked Down The Company Ruining Restaurants“, which has millions of views across YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. I have no affiliation with Sysco or the restaurant industry, I just immediately clocked this argument as suspect and was surprised that no one else had written a takedown yet. The narrative roughly breaks down as follows: People are noticing that restaurants are “starting to taste the same”, and that you can be served the “same mediocre food from New York to Alaska” The reason is that an increasing number of restaurants are using Sysco for distribution, which now controls 35% of the market via a number of acquisitions of smaller distributors Sysco uses their size to get good deals on goods, and this leads to potentially unethical practices like sourcing from providers that treat animals unethically or use slave labor, or deregulate the trucking industry causing truckers to get worse pay Sysco has their own line of mass-produced frozen foods, and these foods are increasingly used by restaurants, meaning dining experience is less unique and worse Regional distributors are dying out, and restaurants in rural areas don’t have any other options Let’s break those down into smaller, implied arguments, and handle them one by one: Does Sysco serve poor quality food? Sysco has been around forever, and “Sysco = bad” is not a new idea. When I was at Boy Scout camp in the late 1990s, we used to make jokes about the poor quality of the Sysco food they served in the dining hall. As the video states: “If you’ve ever spent time in a hospital or a prison, you might have had a meal off of a Sysco truck”. There’s nothing surprising about this. Hospitals, prisons, and boy scout camps are institutions where the consumer is not directly paying, so the institution cuts price any way they can, sacrificing quality as a result. Mentioning these institutions is nothing more than a scare tactic, attempting to paint Sysco food as universally poor quality. If you’re eating out at restaurants, are you in danger of eating poor quality Sysco frozen food? If you have any taste, probably not. Sysco is not a “poor quality food” company. They don’t just serve frozen food and diner slop. They are simply a distributor, buying from all sorts of different suppliers. As a distributor, they don’t specialize in poor quality food, they specialize in making money. Many Sysco customers want to order free range eggs, impossible burgers, and sustainably-raised meat and seafood, so Sysco stocks all of them. Sysco has a large line of premium products, too, which get good reviews from chefs in the analyses I read. And, due to economies of scale, I’m willing to bet they offer the best price on distribution of those products, versus local sourcing at comparative quality. After the video’s release, reddit is flooded with people asking “which restaurants use Sysco”, so they can avoid them. This is an utter misunderstanding of how food distribution works. For example, many restaurants use Sysco for their very popular paper and disposables line, and source local for everything else. Should they be maligned because a Sysco truck is spotted outside of their brick and mortar? Sysco serves poor quality products. They also serve great quality products. Remember, if restaurants are buying poor quality products, it’s because it’s all you, the consumer, will pay for. Does Sysco support slave labor or factory farming? In 2024, there was one instance of Sysco purchasing food from the Chishan Group, a Chinese processor that was accused of using Uyghur forced labor. Sysco ceased purchasing from this group and denounced the practice. This is not a Sysco issue, it’s a systemic issue. The seafood supply chain is notoriously opaque and complex. Every single distributor that sources from foreign countries encounters these problems on occasion. How about animal welfare? Plenty of Sysco’s products come from factory farms. But there are also plenty that do not. In 2019, Sysco announced a plan to stop using pig gestation crates. Again, animal welfare is not a Sysco issue. Sysco offers countless sources for humanely-raised meat. And, as always, as a consumer, if you want to be really sure: stop eating meat, and tell everyone you know to do so as well. Did Sysco lobby to deregulate the trucking industry, causing wages to go down 40% since 1980? There is no record I can find that Sysco lobbied to deregulate the trucking industry. Zero results on Google. Zero results anywhere. This appears to be hearsay. The most recent trucking deregulation was the Motor Carrier Act of 1980. Wages going down was an industry-wide phenomenon following that, not something that Sysco caused. Is Sysco foisting their low-quality products onto restaurants? The video claims: “Sysco and their competitors are flooding restaurants ultra-processed food like this.” There is no flooding to be found. Restaurants have a choice of what tier of Sysco food to buy, and that choice is a rational response to consumer demands. With recent inflation and consumer preferences shifting towards delivery (where food quality always declines anyway by the time it reaches consumer mouths), more and more restaurants are opting for cheaper foods and cutting costs. Consumers can act concerned about which restaurants are “using Sysco” in their city, but I doubt they’ll change their behaviors. Revealed preference shows that American eaters value price above all-else. It’s not like Sysco’s poor quality offerings are hidden, either. The video tells the story of a diner whose owner found that their patties now contained soy protein filler. Why didn’t he check the ingredients before he ordered? Is food quality in the United States decreasing? Access to tasty, healthy, and high quality foods has vastly improved in our lifetimes. I remember what eating at food establishments was like in the 1990s. The average was not nearly as good as it is today. The 1980s and 1970s were even worse. When we criticize Sysco, we romanticise stepping into a rural diner 30-50 years ago and them serving delicious farm-to-table fare. That just wasn’t the case. Instead a free market and standardization has increased quality across the board offering rural restaurants access to the same food lines as urban ones. This is a good thing! Ironically, the foods analyzed in the video as a sign of “quality” are fried pickles, jalapeño poppers, and funnel cake fries. These are inherently low-quality processed foods that no one in their right sobriety should be eating. Wherever you go in the United States, frozen appetizers have always been frozen appetizers, and they’ve always been same-y and poor quality. Expecting every single piece of finger food to have its own special regional taste misunderstands the inherent purpose of these products: mostly to give drunk people something to eat at a low cost. (Hilariously, the video’s analysis even concludes their bowling alley food didn’t taste the same across states, defeating their entire thesis.) Have you magically been eating low-quality Sysco food this whole time? Though the video doesn’t say this directly, that’s what it’s fear-mongering about. That’s why so many people are suddenly flooding their local subreddits to figure out how to “avoid Sysco”. The reality is if you’re an informed consumer, you probably aren’t. Sysco’s frozen food line is incredibly easy to spot, and is only available at low-quality establishments. At a restaurant of quality, you may be eating Sysco raw ingredients, but they’ll put their own spin on them to give you quality food. If that’s not good enough, you’re welcome to pay the price premium for farm to table. Is Sysco a monopoly? The More Perfect Union narrative stops just short of calling Sysco a monopoly. They’re not. They only control 35% of the market, and the video doesn’t even mention other large competitors like US Foods and Performance Food Group, who have the same low-quality frozen foods as part of their offerings. Sysco is a large corporation, and they are prone to all the coordination problem and negative externality issues that other large corporations are prone to, but they are not some sort of unique evil force. So, is Sysco ruining restaurants? No, if anything, modern American consumer preferences are “ruining” restaurants. If you’re concerned about modern food quality, stop ordering delivery slop, stop giving your money to those that prepare said slop, be willing to spend more of your paycheck for better-quality prepared food, and/or perhaps learn to cook again, which increasingly seems to be a lost art in these days of convenience.
naldb 11mo ago
[flagged]
- the_real_cher 11mo ago
  I'm not arguing that moderation isn't the best on this website sometimes but I could see this being flagged because it's got nothing to do with tech. I will argue that this website's moderation is infinitely better than Reddit. And thanks for the link by the way.
  - naldb 11mo ago
    It wasn't the article itself that was flagged. The article was allowed to stay posted and there was some discussion about it. But then someone commented, rightly, that the article was a union hit piece, and that comment was flagged and therefore removed by other users, despite it not breaking any rules.
  - ryandrake 11mo ago
    He’s saying the comment itself got flagged for simply pointing out an article being a union hit piece, which happens all the time here. As dang points out repeatedly, it’s not site moderation, it’s the users. There are enough active HN users that have flagging ability to wipe out whole discussion topics.
- Noumenon72 11mo ago
  Why not link to that comment so people can decide for themselves? I tried searching for this URL or Sysco but I only found another copy of this comment. (Arguing over dead comments in other threads doesn't seem like something we want to see too often, though.)
  - naldb 11mo ago
    Sure: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 This is the removed comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45523057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45523057
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
jdxcode 11mo ago
Speaking for myself, I'd much prefer we take a hit on quality in exchange for diversity across the country. I hate that outside the probably 5 biggest US cities it's all so boring. Maybe I'm getting old and have rose-colored glasses but I feel like this wasn't the case 20 years ago.
- nkurz 11mo ago
  > I hate that outside the probably 5 biggest US cities it's all so boring. Maybe I'm getting old and have rose-colored glasses but I feel like this wasn't the case 20 years ago. What makes you think this is the case? Just last week I had tasty Vietnamese food on the lakeshore of a tiny rural Vermont town: https://www.yelp.com/biz/pho-farm-morgan https://www.yelp.com/biz/pho-farm-morgan It was both delicious and unexpected, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't there 20 years ago. I think there's still lots of good food to be found outside those cities than you might think. Since I brought it up, I guess I might as well ask: is pineapple common in Vietnamese noodle dishes? I had their "House Vermicelli" with grilled pork, and was pleasantly surprised by the pineapple. Is it a regional thing, or a substitute for something they didn't have available? I don't think I've had it this way before.
dj_mc_merlin 11mo ago
I can't say I agree fully with the original video either but this is just blatantly trying to reframe the same facts presented in said video, but placing the blame on consumers rather than businesses, which is a really dirty tactic. > Sysco serves poor quality products. They also serve great quality products. Remember, if restaurants are buying poor quality products, it’s because it’s all you, the consumer, will pay for. "feel bad about being poor" > Again, animal welfare is not a Sysco issue. Sysco offers countless sources for humanely-raised meat. And, as always, as a consumer, if you want to be really sure: stop eating meat, and tell everyone you know to do so as well. "feel bad about eating meat" > Ironically, the foods analyzed in the video as a sign of “quality” are fried pickles, jalapeño poppers, and funnel cake fries. These are inherently low-quality processed foods that no one in their right sobriety should be eating. "feel bad about food choices" > The More Perfect Union narrative stops just short of calling Sysco a monopoly. They’re not. They only control 35% of the market "only 35%" I mean, c'mon.. was this written by a real person or Adam Smith come back from the grave?
- TimorousBestie 11mo ago
  > I mean, c'mon.. was this written by a real person or Adam Smith come back from the grave? It does smell a little AI-assisted.
  - liface 11mo ago
    I abhor AI, and did not use a single bit of it.
    - dj_mc_merlin 11mo ago
      BTW, despite disagreeing with you on this topic, I read other parts of your blog and, as somebody else who experiences manic episodes, I actually more or less 100% agree with your "Core Beliefs" section. I've seen this before in other people I've met like me, but it does make me wonder about the nature of manic states and nature/nurture. Do these beliefs trigger individuals to enter manic states, or is predisposition to manic states something that makes individuals adopt this set of beliefs? The subtitle of your blog is "wired differently", but the weird part is many people are wired differently but in vastly similar ways.
camel_Snake 11mo ago
I didn't really follow the premise of the original video. Can you find identical food at various locations throughout the country? Yes. Are you required to eat this same food? No! You could likely order the things that local restaurant/pub does make in house, rather than go for the variety of items on the menu that are simply there to appease customers' fancies. Or you could go to a proper restaurant that makes the majority of their dishes in house. You have this choice. If Sysco and these other companies didn't offer pre-made jalepeno poppers and the like, they simply wouldn't be on the menu in the first place.
- nemomarx 11mo ago
  What's a good way to tell which things are made in house and which are mass market? And I think Sysco acquiring other local suppliers does suggest that more menu items might be from them than were in the last at least
  - dsr_ 11mo ago
    Ask.
- fruitworks 11mo ago
  how are customers going to tell in-house dishes from sysco premade dishes just by looking at a menu?
- burnt-resistor 11mo ago
  That's unrealistic. The problem is most restaurants in America exist in rural areas in commercial food deserts and are almost entirely dependent upon mega broadline suppliers that have merged into de facto oligopolies. Furthermore, by offering a wealth of finished items, in addition to ingredients and supplies, it's seductive to restaurants use these boring, lazy, pre-made offerings rather than cooking from scratch like respectable restaurants that do the work and pay the cost of sourcing quality ingredients, taking the time to do the preparation, and cooking good food.
zoklet-enjoyer 11mo ago
Sysco did to restaurants what Clear Channel did to radio. Regional cultures disappear as everything begins to sound and taste the same wherever you go.
quicon 11mo ago
The eternal question: is Enshittification imposed by companies for maximizing profits or just a consumers choice?
- fruitworks 11mo ago
  I think it comes from a lack of information on the consumer end or a lack of choices due to monopolization on the producer end. Also I reject using the word "enshittification" because it comes off as childish.
Zak 11mo ago
> Revealed preference shows that American eaters value price above all-else. I've thought quite a bit about revealed preference in the context of recommendation algorithms. It's tempting to believe what people do in a given situation reveals what they actually prefer despite claims to the contrary, but psychology has long theorized it's more complicated than that. There's a complex interplay of conscious preference, subconscious impulses, information availability, and executive function. The hard part is quickly convincing someone of the value proposition when there's an option that will ultimately be more satisfying than the quick and familiar.
Game_Ender 11mo ago
https://archive.is/n08XL https://archive.is/n08XL
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
techblueberry 11mo ago
I don’t love this argument and I think it comes down to - and maybe this is an elitist anti-populist argument or whatever but, like consequentially - one could say about Walmart that Walmart didn’t destroy small-town American main streets, consumer preferences did. And of course, this is loosely speaking true, but this is tangentially similar to “Fentanyl didn’t ruin small-town America, consumer preferences did.” Like - consequentially, one can see that before Walmart there were more locally owned stores in small towns. And I think we can argue about whether or not people were happier then. I would guess most people, particularly younger people are just happy to have a place where they can buy more stuff cheaper. But all those negative externalities still happened. We can still be mad about that; and I think to a certain extent, like fundamentally is our goal to optimize dopamine hacking at the cheapest possible price point? Is there ever an argument to be made that maybe we design a system that doesn’t entirely feed into this pattern? Antitrust law is almost entirely a set of laws that exist to stop the system just doing its thang. Anti-drug and anti-smoking laws as well. Should we stop praying to the altar of consumer preferences in more cases? especially in the growing metaverse/character ai/brain-computer interface era.
- mcphage 11mo ago
  > one could say about Walmart that Walmart didn’t destroy small-town American main streets, consumer preferences did Except that’s not even true—Walmart doesn’t merely sell products, it does plenty of anticompetitive tactics itself, like opening a store in a town, waiting until smaller retailers nearby go out of business, then close that Walmart and open a new one in the next town over. People in the first town have no choice but to drive to the next town for products, since the local businesses are gone. Rinse and repeat.
  - Freedom2 11mo ago
    Most American small towns lean libertarian and espouse rugged individualism - wouldn't they have just opened a competing business with competitive prices instead? Or did they forget how?
    - 11mo ago
ChrisArchitect 11mo ago
Related: Tonight's restaurant dinner fell off the Sysco truck https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868
silexia 11mo ago
Why is this flagged? It is a well written thoughtful article with a very good point.
- altairprime 11mo ago
  Personally, I flagged it because: - It opens with clear derision of its opponents’ main point as a “meme”. Not a good look out of the gate. - It slips from talking about ‘them’ to talking about ‘you’, and ends with a direct challenge to the ego of those it disagrees with, suggesting their ability to provide, to “cook”, for their household is more at fault than Sysco. - It is oblivious to the continuous decrease in effective household spending power and increase in household hours worked since Reagan, suggesting that, regardless of the author’s intent, that the resulting post is either a corporate shill or a capitalism evangelism piece. - It uses a variety of conversational warfare tactics of argumentation that I don’t view as acceptable for submissions to HN. Rhetorical styles are not exempt from judgment, etc. (This alone would be sufficient cause for me to consider flagging it.)
  - nkurz 11mo ago
    I disagree, and think it's usually better to discuss articles like this than to flag them, but I appreciate your excellent explanation. Flagged or not, your explanation would have been a great standalone comment on the article.
    - altairprime 11mo ago
      With apologies, I don’t intend to make a habit of this.
queenkjuul 11mo ago
Well when it says the video "doesn't even mention US Foods or Performance Food Group" when i know for absolute fact the video in fact mentioned both, it's hard to take it seriously. I also find it ridiculous to counter "they abuse animals in factory farms" with "well they also sell free range eggs if you're willing to pay". Okay so you admit that they are abusing animals in factory farms, though. The latter doesn't in any way excuse or absolve the former.
orwin 11mo ago
I dislike the argumentative tone, especially when it seems to strawman rather than steelman the argument, i had to watch the original video. I think the original video is misrepresented, it argue that Sysco is a local monopoly for restaurants in rural areas, not a global monopoly. And it does absolutely mention its two big competitors, especially when Sysco tried a merger with one, and the two of them are in a merger themselves. I won't argue point by point since i really, really dislike this argumentative method, but to me, the main argument from OP is: consumer have choices, and chose low-quality (the part about the frozen line especially is interesting). The video argues that Sysco is a local monopoly and that in reality, few restaurant truly have a choice of what they serve, so they serve shit even if they don't want to , more and more expensive shit as Sysco's earnings are rising, and people are just now starting to notice. Living close to an agri co-op, and being raised near a farmer's market (not in the US though), it does track, but local monoply power is not where i think those companies truly make their money. It's their local monopsony power. Coop like working with global logistic companies at first, since they propose the lowest prices and can buy in bulk, and work well with futures. But as soon as the local competion dies, restrictions start to happen on what the coop can do until even local restaurant have to use the logistic food companies instead of the local coop (luckily, here we have regulations and this was banned 25 years ago) At worst, the original video inform consumers, and given Op's belief in information: > The reality is if you’re an informed consumer, you probably aren’t. Sysco’s frozen food line is incredibly easy to spot, and is only available at low-quality establishments. i don't understand why he argues against it. Yes, the fact are presented in an ideological manner, but isn't the consumers more informed after?
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

34 points by liface 11mo ago

Okay, so if Sysco is ruining restaurants, then go eat at a restaurant being served by US Foods and experience the same slop?

mrgoldenbrown 11mo ago
Is anyone actually suggesting that? When someone criticizes Amazon they aren't implicitly supporting Walmart. They can both be bad.

firesteelrain 11mo ago

Hugged to death? Anyone have an alternate link?

liface 11mo ago
My webhosting seems to be getting DDOSed. Perfect timing :-|
- __float 11mo ago
  Ah, the cost of spreading bad information on cheap shared hosting.
jdxcode 11mo ago
There’s a meme going around that Sysco is “ruining restaurants”, and it’s spreading fast, probably because it feeds way too easily into recurring consumer fears concerning food quality, corporations, and homogenization. The problem is that the meme, like most punchy viral outrage, collapses under basic scrutiny. While there has been some underground Sysco-critical buzz for a while, the idea went viral recently with the release of a video from More Perfect Union called “I Tracked Down The Company Ruining Restaurants“, which has millions of views across YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. I have no affiliation with Sysco or the restaurant industry, I just immediately clocked this argument as suspect and was surprised that no one else had written a takedown yet. The narrative roughly breaks down as follows: People are noticing that restaurants are “starting to taste the same”, and that you can be served the “same mediocre food from New York to Alaska” The reason is that an increasing number of restaurants are using Sysco for distribution, which now controls 35% of the market via a number of acquisitions of smaller distributors Sysco uses their size to get good deals on goods, and this leads to potentially unethical practices like sourcing from providers that treat animals unethically or use slave labor, or deregulate the trucking industry causing truckers to get worse pay Sysco has their own line of mass-produced frozen foods, and these foods are increasingly used by restaurants, meaning dining experience is less unique and worse Regional distributors are dying out, and restaurants in rural areas don’t have any other options Let’s break those down into smaller, implied arguments, and handle them one by one: Does Sysco serve poor quality food? Sysco has been around forever, and “Sysco = bad” is not a new idea. When I was at Boy Scout camp in the late 1990s, we used to make jokes about the poor quality of the Sysco food they served in the dining hall. As the video states: “If you’ve ever spent time in a hospital or a prison, you might have had a meal off of a Sysco truck”. There’s nothing surprising about this. Hospitals, prisons, and boy scout camps are institutions where the consumer is not directly paying, so the institution cuts price any way they can, sacrificing quality as a result. Mentioning these institutions is nothing more than a scare tactic, attempting to paint Sysco food as universally poor quality. If you’re eating out at restaurants, are you in danger of eating poor quality Sysco frozen food? If you have any taste, probably not. Sysco is not a “poor quality food” company. They don’t just serve frozen food and diner slop. They are simply a distributor, buying from all sorts of different suppliers. As a distributor, they don’t specialize in poor quality food, they specialize in making money. Many Sysco customers want to order free range eggs, impossible burgers, and sustainably-raised meat and seafood, so Sysco stocks all of them. Sysco has a large line of premium products, too, which get good reviews from chefs in the analyses I read. And, due to economies of scale, I’m willing to bet they offer the best price on distribution of those products, versus local sourcing at comparative quality. After the video’s release, reddit is flooded with people asking “which restaurants use Sysco”, so they can avoid them. This is an utter misunderstanding of how food distribution works. For example, many restaurants use Sysco for their very popular paper and disposables line, and source local for everything else. Should they be maligned because a Sysco truck is spotted outside of their brick and mortar? Sysco serves poor quality products. They also serve great quality products. Remember, if restaurants are buying poor quality products, it’s because it’s all you, the consumer, will pay for. Does Sysco support slave labor or factory farming? In 2024, there was one instance of Sysco purchasing food from the Chishan Group, a Chinese processor that was accused of using Uyghur forced labor. Sysco ceased purchasing from this group and denounced the practice. This is not a Sysco issue, it’s a systemic issue. The seafood supply chain is notoriously opaque and complex. Every single distributor that sources from foreign countries encounters these problems on occasion. How about animal welfare? Plenty of Sysco’s products come from factory farms. But there are also plenty that do not. In 2019, Sysco announced a plan to stop using pig gestation crates. Again, animal welfare is not a Sysco issue. Sysco offers countless sources for humanely-raised meat. And, as always, as a consumer, if you want to be really sure: stop eating meat, and tell everyone you know to do so as well. Did Sysco lobby to deregulate the trucking industry, causing wages to go down 40% since 1980? There is no record I can find that Sysco lobbied to deregulate the trucking industry. Zero results on Google. Zero results anywhere. This appears to be hearsay. The most recent trucking deregulation was the Motor Carrier Act of 1980. Wages going down was an industry-wide phenomenon following that, not something that Sysco caused. Is Sysco foisting their low-quality products onto restaurants? The video claims: “Sysco and their competitors are flooding restaurants ultra-processed food like this.” There is no flooding to be found. Restaurants have a choice of what tier of Sysco food to buy, and that choice is a rational response to consumer demands. With recent inflation and consumer preferences shifting towards delivery (where food quality always declines anyway by the time it reaches consumer mouths), more and more restaurants are opting for cheaper foods and cutting costs. Consumers can act concerned about which restaurants are “using Sysco” in their city, but I doubt they’ll change their behaviors. Revealed preference shows that American eaters value price above all-else. It’s not like Sysco’s poor quality offerings are hidden, either. The video tells the story of a diner whose owner found that their patties now contained soy protein filler. Why didn’t he check the ingredients before he ordered? Is food quality in the United States decreasing? Access to tasty, healthy, and high quality foods has vastly improved in our lifetimes. I remember what eating at food establishments was like in the 1990s. The average was not nearly as good as it is today. The 1980s and 1970s were even worse. When we criticize Sysco, we romanticise stepping into a rural diner 30-50 years ago and them serving delicious farm-to-table fare. That just wasn’t the case. Instead a free market and standardization has increased quality across the board offering rural restaurants access to the same food lines as urban ones. This is a good thing! Ironically, the foods analyzed in the video as a sign of “quality” are fried pickles, jalapeño poppers, and funnel cake fries. These are inherently low-quality processed foods that no one in their right sobriety should be eating. Wherever you go in the United States, frozen appetizers have always been frozen appetizers, and they’ve always been same-y and poor quality. Expecting every single piece of finger food to have its own special regional taste misunderstands the inherent purpose of these products: mostly to give drunk people something to eat at a low cost. (Hilariously, the video’s analysis even concludes their bowling alley food didn’t taste the same across states, defeating their entire thesis.) Have you magically been eating low-quality Sysco food this whole time? Though the video doesn’t say this directly, that’s what it’s fear-mongering about. That’s why so many people are suddenly flooding their local subreddits to figure out how to “avoid Sysco”. The reality is if you’re an informed consumer, you probably aren’t. Sysco’s frozen food line is incredibly easy to spot, and is only available at low-quality establishments. At a restaurant of quality, you may be eating Sysco raw ingredients, but they’ll put their own spin on them to give you quality food. If that’s not good enough, you’re welcome to pay the price premium for farm to table. Is Sysco a monopoly? The More Perfect Union narrative stops just short of calling Sysco a monopoly. They’re not. They only control 35% of the market, and the video doesn’t even mention other large competitors like US Foods and Performance Food Group, who have the same low-quality frozen foods as part of their offerings. Sysco is a large corporation, and they are prone to all the coordination problem and negative externality issues that other large corporations are prone to, but they are not some sort of unique evil force. So, is Sysco ruining restaurants? No, if anything, modern American consumer preferences are “ruining” restaurants. If you’re concerned about modern food quality, stop ordering delivery slop, stop giving your money to those that prepare said slop, be willing to spend more of your paycheck for better-quality prepared food, and/or perhaps learn to cook again, which increasingly seems to be a lost art in these days of convenience.

naldb 11mo ago

[flagged]

the_real_cher 11mo ago
I'm not arguing that moderation isn't the best on this website sometimes but I could see this being flagged because it's got nothing to do with tech. I will argue that this website's moderation is infinitely better than Reddit. And thanks for the link by the way.
- naldb 11mo ago
  It wasn't the article itself that was flagged. The article was allowed to stay posted and there was some discussion about it. But then someone commented, rightly, that the article was a union hit piece, and that comment was flagged and therefore removed by other users, despite it not breaking any rules.
- ryandrake 11mo ago
  He’s saying the comment itself got flagged for simply pointing out an article being a union hit piece, which happens all the time here. As dang points out repeatedly, it’s not site moderation, it’s the users. There are enough active HN users that have flagging ability to wipe out whole discussion topics.
Noumenon72 11mo ago
Why not link to that comment so people can decide for themselves? I tried searching for this URL or Sysco but I only found another copy of this comment. (Arguing over dead comments in other threads doesn't seem like something we want to see too often, though.)
- naldb 11mo ago
  Sure: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 This is the removed comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45523057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45523057

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

jdxcode 11mo ago

Speaking for myself, I'd much prefer we take a hit on quality in exchange for diversity across the country. I hate that outside the probably 5 biggest US cities it's all so boring. Maybe I'm getting old and have rose-colored glasses but I feel like this wasn't the case 20 years ago.

nkurz 11mo ago
> I hate that outside the probably 5 biggest US cities it's all so boring. Maybe I'm getting old and have rose-colored glasses but I feel like this wasn't the case 20 years ago. What makes you think this is the case? Just last week I had tasty Vietnamese food on the lakeshore of a tiny rural Vermont town: https://www.yelp.com/biz/pho-farm-morgan https://www.yelp.com/biz/pho-farm-morgan It was both delicious and unexpected, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't there 20 years ago. I think there's still lots of good food to be found outside those cities than you might think. Since I brought it up, I guess I might as well ask: is pineapple common in Vietnamese noodle dishes? I had their "House Vermicelli" with grilled pork, and was pleasantly surprised by the pineapple. Is it a regional thing, or a substitute for something they didn't have available? I don't think I've had it this way before.

dj_mc_merlin 11mo ago

I can't say I agree fully with the original video either but this is just blatantly trying to reframe the same facts presented in said video, but placing the blame on consumers rather than businesses, which is a really dirty tactic. > Sysco serves poor quality products. They also serve great quality products. Remember, if restaurants are buying poor quality products, it’s because it’s all you, the consumer, will pay for. "feel bad about being poor" > Again, animal welfare is not a Sysco issue. Sysco offers countless sources for humanely-raised meat. And, as always, as a consumer, if you want to be really sure: stop eating meat, and tell everyone you know to do so as well. "feel bad about eating meat" > Ironically, the foods analyzed in the video as a sign of “quality” are fried pickles, jalapeño poppers, and funnel cake fries. These are inherently low-quality processed foods that no one in their right sobriety should be eating. "feel bad about food choices" > The More Perfect Union narrative stops just short of calling Sysco a monopoly. They’re not. They only control 35% of the market "only 35%" I mean, c'mon.. was this written by a real person or Adam Smith come back from the grave?

TimorousBestie 11mo ago
> I mean, c'mon.. was this written by a real person or Adam Smith come back from the grave? It does smell a little AI-assisted.
- liface 11mo ago
  I abhor AI, and did not use a single bit of it.
  - dj_mc_merlin 11mo ago
    BTW, despite disagreeing with you on this topic, I read other parts of your blog and, as somebody else who experiences manic episodes, I actually more or less 100% agree with your "Core Beliefs" section. I've seen this before in other people I've met like me, but it does make me wonder about the nature of manic states and nature/nurture. Do these beliefs trigger individuals to enter manic states, or is predisposition to manic states something that makes individuals adopt this set of beliefs? The subtitle of your blog is "wired differently", but the weird part is many people are wired differently but in vastly similar ways.

camel_Snake 11mo ago

I didn't really follow the premise of the original video. Can you find identical food at various locations throughout the country? Yes. Are you required to eat this same food? No! You could likely order the things that local restaurant/pub does make in house, rather than go for the variety of items on the menu that are simply there to appease customers' fancies. Or you could go to a proper restaurant that makes the majority of their dishes in house. You have this choice. If Sysco and these other companies didn't offer pre-made jalepeno poppers and the like, they simply wouldn't be on the menu in the first place.

nemomarx 11mo ago
What's a good way to tell which things are made in house and which are mass market? And I think Sysco acquiring other local suppliers does suggest that more menu items might be from them than were in the last at least
- dsr_ 11mo ago
  Ask.
fruitworks 11mo ago
how are customers going to tell in-house dishes from sysco premade dishes just by looking at a menu?
burnt-resistor 11mo ago
That's unrealistic. The problem is most restaurants in America exist in rural areas in commercial food deserts and are almost entirely dependent upon mega broadline suppliers that have merged into de facto oligopolies. Furthermore, by offering a wealth of finished items, in addition to ingredients and supplies, it's seductive to restaurants use these boring, lazy, pre-made offerings rather than cooking from scratch like respectable restaurants that do the work and pay the cost of sourcing quality ingredients, taking the time to do the preparation, and cooking good food.

zoklet-enjoyer 11mo ago

Sysco did to restaurants what Clear Channel did to radio. Regional cultures disappear as everything begins to sound and taste the same wherever you go.

quicon 11mo ago

The eternal question: is Enshittification imposed by companies for maximizing profits or just a consumers choice?

fruitworks 11mo ago
I think it comes from a lack of information on the consumer end or a lack of choices due to monopolization on the producer end. Also I reject using the word "enshittification" because it comes off as childish.

Zak 11mo ago

> Revealed preference shows that American eaters value price above all-else. I've thought quite a bit about revealed preference in the context of recommendation algorithms. It's tempting to believe what people do in a given situation reveals what they actually prefer despite claims to the contrary, but psychology has long theorized it's more complicated than that. There's a complex interplay of conscious preference, subconscious impulses, information availability, and executive function. The hard part is quickly convincing someone of the value proposition when there's an option that will ultimately be more satisfying than the quick and familiar.

Game_Ender 11mo ago

https://archive.is/n08XL https://archive.is/n08XL

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techblueberry 11mo ago

I don’t love this argument and I think it comes down to - and maybe this is an elitist anti-populist argument or whatever but, like consequentially - one could say about Walmart that Walmart didn’t destroy small-town American main streets, consumer preferences did. And of course, this is loosely speaking true, but this is tangentially similar to “Fentanyl didn’t ruin small-town America, consumer preferences did.” Like - consequentially, one can see that before Walmart there were more locally owned stores in small towns. And I think we can argue about whether or not people were happier then. I would guess most people, particularly younger people are just happy to have a place where they can buy more stuff cheaper. But all those negative externalities still happened. We can still be mad about that; and I think to a certain extent, like fundamentally is our goal to optimize dopamine hacking at the cheapest possible price point? Is there ever an argument to be made that maybe we design a system that doesn’t entirely feed into this pattern? Antitrust law is almost entirely a set of laws that exist to stop the system just doing its thang. Anti-drug and anti-smoking laws as well. Should we stop praying to the altar of consumer preferences in more cases? especially in the growing metaverse/character ai/brain-computer interface era.

mcphage 11mo ago
> one could say about Walmart that Walmart didn’t destroy small-town American main streets, consumer preferences did Except that’s not even true—Walmart doesn’t merely sell products, it does plenty of anticompetitive tactics itself, like opening a store in a town, waiting until smaller retailers nearby go out of business, then close that Walmart and open a new one in the next town over. People in the first town have no choice but to drive to the next town for products, since the local businesses are gone. Rinse and repeat.
- Freedom2 11mo ago
  Most American small towns lean libertarian and espouse rugged individualism - wouldn't they have just opened a competing business with competitive prices instead? Or did they forget how?
  - 11mo ago

ChrisArchitect 11mo ago

Related: Tonight's restaurant dinner fell off the Sysco truck https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45522868

silexia 11mo ago

Why is this flagged? It is a well written thoughtful article with a very good point.

altairprime 11mo ago
Personally, I flagged it because: - It opens with clear derision of its opponents’ main point as a “meme”. Not a good look out of the gate. - It slips from talking about ‘them’ to talking about ‘you’, and ends with a direct challenge to the ego of those it disagrees with, suggesting their ability to provide, to “cook”, for their household is more at fault than Sysco. - It is oblivious to the continuous decrease in effective household spending power and increase in household hours worked since Reagan, suggesting that, regardless of the author’s intent, that the resulting post is either a corporate shill or a capitalism evangelism piece. - It uses a variety of conversational warfare tactics of argumentation that I don’t view as acceptable for submissions to HN. Rhetorical styles are not exempt from judgment, etc. (This alone would be sufficient cause for me to consider flagging it.)
- nkurz 11mo ago
  I disagree, and think it's usually better to discuss articles like this than to flag them, but I appreciate your excellent explanation. Flagged or not, your explanation would have been a great standalone comment on the article.
  - altairprime 11mo ago
    With apologies, I don’t intend to make a habit of this.

queenkjuul 11mo ago

Well when it says the video "doesn't even mention US Foods or Performance Food Group" when i know for absolute fact the video in fact mentioned both, it's hard to take it seriously. I also find it ridiculous to counter "they abuse animals in factory farms" with "well they also sell free range eggs if you're willing to pay". Okay so you admit that they are abusing animals in factory farms, though. The latter doesn't in any way excuse or absolve the former.

orwin 11mo ago

I dislike the argumentative tone, especially when it seems to strawman rather than steelman the argument, i had to watch the original video. I think the original video is misrepresented, it argue that Sysco is a local monopoly for restaurants in rural areas, not a global monopoly. And it does absolutely mention its two big competitors, especially when Sysco tried a merger with one, and the two of them are in a merger themselves. I won't argue point by point since i really, really dislike this argumentative method, but to me, the main argument from OP is: consumer have choices, and chose low-quality (the part about the frozen line especially is interesting). The video argues that Sysco is a local monopoly and that in reality, few restaurant truly have a choice of what they serve, so they serve shit even if they don't want to , more and more expensive shit as Sysco's earnings are rising, and people are just now starting to notice. Living close to an agri co-op, and being raised near a farmer's market (not in the US though), it does track, but local monoply power is not where i think those companies truly make their money. It's their local monopsony power. Coop like working with global logistic companies at first, since they propose the lowest prices and can buy in bulk, and work well with futures. But as soon as the local competion dies, restrictions start to happen on what the coop can do until even local restaurant have to use the logistic food companies instead of the local coop (luckily, here we have regulations and this was banned 25 years ago) At worst, the original video inform consumers, and given Op's belief in information: > The reality is if you’re an informed consumer, you probably aren’t. Sysco’s frozen food line is incredibly easy to spot, and is only available at low-quality establishments. i don't understand why he argues against it. Yes, the fact are presented in an ideological manner, but isn't the consumers more informed after?

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