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I agree, I think it makes most sense to add them up to be the true #2.

sprobertson 1y ago
And #1 on the jobs chart
rootlocus 1y ago
Then you should probably add kotlin and java together as well. They share the same purpose, use the same VM, usually live in the same project, have native compatibility, are used with the same frameworks, etc.
- whstl 1y ago
  True. Pretty much every Kotlin recruitment message I got was because of past Java experience, so the job market seems to agree with you.
- jillesvangurp 1y ago
  Especially considering Kotlin is used as a drop in replacement for Java in a lot of projects. Especially when using the type of frameworks often associated with Java (Spring, Quarkus, etc.). Personally, I think statistics like this are biased towards the median of the past few decades and do not necessarily tell much about the future; other than that things apparently move very slowly and people are mostly conservative and stuck in their ways. Cobol is still in that list. Right above Elixir, which apparently is a bit of a niche language. Kotlin has only been around for about 15 years, and the 1.0 release was actually only nine years ago. Java was released 30 years ago and it's been dominant in enterprise development for 25 years now. So, no surprise that Java is nearer to the top. Python is surprising but it's been around for quite long and gained a lot of popularity outside the traditional computer science crowd. I know biochemists, physicists, etc. that all use python. And it's a great language for beginners obviously. It's not so much that people switched to python but that it is driving the growth of the overall programmer community. Most new programmers use python these days and that explains why it is the #1. Javascript has had a virtual monopoly on basically anything that runs in a browser, which is of course the most popular way to distribute code these days. Especially since plugins were deprecated and things like applets, flash, etc. disappeared around fifteen years ago. Anything that ran on the web was either written in Javascript; or transpiled/compiled to it. WASM is starting to change that but it's early days. What the past 25 years tell us is that things definitely change. But very slowly. C++ still outranks Javascript. That's because it's mostly browsers where it is used. It's a lot less popular for other things. I like Kotlin, so I'm biased. But it's obviously not the most popular thing by a long shot. But popular doesn't mean good. I actually like python for small unimportant things. But I reach for Kotlin if I need to do it properly. I used to reach for Java. But Kotlin simply became the better tool for the job; at least for me. I even prefer it over typescript and I do occasionally use it for web frontend development. The transpiler is pretty good. And there's a WASM compiler too and Compose for WASM just entered beta. Kotlin seems future proof and it seems to be growing into wider adoption. There are a few million programmers around by Jetbrains counts. It's not nothing.
  - skydhash 1y ago
    C++ is still very popular where you need raw perfomance but not so raw as C. Especially with the fact that python is used as a more user friendly interface.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  JS is a valid TS, Kotlin is not a valid Java (only at a bytecode level, but then you might as well combine all JVM languages).
  - Traubenfuchs 1y ago
    > Kotlin is not a valid Java But you can easily have both of them in the same project (e.g. when slowly moving to kotlin) and have them interop.
    - mi_lk 1y ago
      That applies to all JVM languages no?
      - Traubenfuchs 1y ago
        Java devs at large are generally not excited about writing Scala.
        boobsbr 1y ago
        There are dozens of us! Dozens!
        vips7L 1y ago
        I like where Scala 3 is headed (finally). Martin seems to realize that the simpler "direct" programming model is better and that will make the language more attractive to regular people who aren't FP purists. Though it does feel like it might be too little too late.
    - nunobrito 1y ago
      Doesn't really bring benefit. With Java you are more quickly useful in C++ and can write server apps without fuss. Very little benefit in using a different language when Java literally does the same and is used everywhere else.
    - 1y ago
- xwowsersx 1y ago
  Add Scala in there, while you're at it!
  - andersmurphy 1y ago
    Don't forget Jruby and Groovy.
    - xwowsersx 1y ago
      Touche!
- andersmurphy 1y ago
  And Clojure and Scala. So really Clojure is number 2. :-)
alkonaut 1y ago
You could make a separate graph with "platform" or "language family" so you do js/ts, jvm, .net/clr, C/C++ etc. That one is perhaps more interesting from an industry/jobs trend perspective whereas the TS vs JS trend is also interesting on its own.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  JS is a valid TS, so there’s no reason to discern them.

And #1 on the jobs chart

Then you should probably add kotlin and java together as well. They share the same purpose, use the same VM, usually live in the same project, have native compatibility, are used with the same frameworks, etc.

whstl 1y ago
True. Pretty much every Kotlin recruitment message I got was because of past Java experience, so the job market seems to agree with you.
jillesvangurp 1y ago
Especially considering Kotlin is used as a drop in replacement for Java in a lot of projects. Especially when using the type of frameworks often associated with Java (Spring, Quarkus, etc.). Personally, I think statistics like this are biased towards the median of the past few decades and do not necessarily tell much about the future; other than that things apparently move very slowly and people are mostly conservative and stuck in their ways. Cobol is still in that list. Right above Elixir, which apparently is a bit of a niche language. Kotlin has only been around for about 15 years, and the 1.0 release was actually only nine years ago. Java was released 30 years ago and it's been dominant in enterprise development for 25 years now. So, no surprise that Java is nearer to the top. Python is surprising but it's been around for quite long and gained a lot of popularity outside the traditional computer science crowd. I know biochemists, physicists, etc. that all use python. And it's a great language for beginners obviously. It's not so much that people switched to python but that it is driving the growth of the overall programmer community. Most new programmers use python these days and that explains why it is the #1. Javascript has had a virtual monopoly on basically anything that runs in a browser, which is of course the most popular way to distribute code these days. Especially since plugins were deprecated and things like applets, flash, etc. disappeared around fifteen years ago. Anything that ran on the web was either written in Javascript; or transpiled/compiled to it. WASM is starting to change that but it's early days. What the past 25 years tell us is that things definitely change. But very slowly. C++ still outranks Javascript. That's because it's mostly browsers where it is used. It's a lot less popular for other things. I like Kotlin, so I'm biased. But it's obviously not the most popular thing by a long shot. But popular doesn't mean good. I actually like python for small unimportant things. But I reach for Kotlin if I need to do it properly. I used to reach for Java. But Kotlin simply became the better tool for the job; at least for me. I even prefer it over typescript and I do occasionally use it for web frontend development. The transpiler is pretty good. And there's a WASM compiler too and Compose for WASM just entered beta. Kotlin seems future proof and it seems to be growing into wider adoption. There are a few million programmers around by Jetbrains counts. It's not nothing.
- skydhash 1y ago
  C++ is still very popular where you need raw perfomance but not so raw as C. Especially with the fact that python is used as a more user friendly interface.
wiseowise 1y ago
JS is a valid TS, Kotlin is not a valid Java (only at a bytecode level, but then you might as well combine all JVM languages).
- Traubenfuchs 1y ago
  > Kotlin is not a valid Java But you can easily have both of them in the same project (e.g. when slowly moving to kotlin) and have them interop.
  - mi_lk 1y ago
    That applies to all JVM languages no?
    - Traubenfuchs 1y ago
      Java devs at large are generally not excited about writing Scala.
      - boobsbr 1y ago
        There are dozens of us! Dozens!
        vips7L 1y ago
        I like where Scala 3 is headed (finally). Martin seems to realize that the simpler "direct" programming model is better and that will make the language more attractive to regular people who aren't FP purists. Though it does feel like it might be too little too late.
  - nunobrito 1y ago
    Doesn't really bring benefit. With Java you are more quickly useful in C++ and can write server apps without fuss. Very little benefit in using a different language when Java literally does the same and is used everywhere else.
  - 1y ago
xwowsersx 1y ago
Add Scala in there, while you're at it!
- andersmurphy 1y ago
  Don't forget Jruby and Groovy.
  - xwowsersx 1y ago
    Touche!
andersmurphy 1y ago
And Clojure and Scala. So really Clojure is number 2. :-)

alkonaut 1y ago

You could make a separate graph with "platform" or "language family" so you do js/ts, jvm, .net/clr, C/C++ etc. That one is perhaps more interesting from an industry/jobs trend perspective whereas the TS vs JS trend is also interesting on its own.

wiseowise 1y ago
JS is a valid TS, so there’s no reason to discern them.