8 ms·

Why your [ultra-light hiker] friend suddenly has [the world's lightest] power bank. I remember Colin Fletcher, years ago, writing in The Complete Walker about

by Zanni 1y ago

Why your [ultra-light hiker] friend suddenly has [the world's lightest] power bank. I remember Colin Fletcher, years ago, writing in The Complete Walker about trimming the borders off his paper maps to save weight, which seemed like an insane over-optimization to me. But then, I'm not an ultralight hiker. I am impressed folks are getting their loads down to 10 pounds though.

JohnFen 1y ago
That insane over-optimization is how folks are getting down to (and below) 10 pounds. I'm not even remotely an ultralight backpacker, but I do count ounces (no matter what your weight limit is, you can't escape making tradeoffs to stay within it). Your hiking load is a great example of how quickly apparently insignificant quantities can add up. Saving fractions of an ounce multiple times gets you large savings far more quickly than you'd think.
- anonymars 1y ago
  The topic reminds me of the .NET core peanut butter improvements: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvements-in-net-6/#%E2%80%9Cpeanut-butter%E2%80%9D https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvemen...
- addaon 1y ago
  I'm down to around 10 lb base load. And then I hike in the desert where I carry 5 - 7 liters of water (11 - 15 lbs). And food. Saving a pound here and there is totally worth it, but there's a large part of the country where prudent hiking means the majority of your weight is water.
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    If saving here and there is worth it, why would a hiker carry a 300g battery? Imagine the savings from leaving that boat anchor at home along with whatever obviously non-essential gadget wants to be recharged.
    - addaon 1y ago
      I don't carry a battery, but I do carry a solar panel that weighs around 300 g. I use my phone when backpacking as a GPS receiver, map, flashlight, and eBook reader. Phone + solar panel weighs less than paperback + paper map + flashlight, gives me more flexibility for adjusting plans, and doesn't leave me out of novel after a few days.
      - otoburb 1y ago
        Assuming you could afford it, would the new iPhone Air be a consideration in your ultralight base load going forward?
        addaon 1y ago
        Potentially? I have an iPhone 15 Pro now, which I got both because it was lighter than previous equivalents, and was the first (?) with direct-to-satellite, which I definitely value. I know I can get ~5 days of navigation (but not reading) out of it, which is one of the reasons I don't take a backup battery (the solar panel isn't a single point of failure; but of course the phone still is for nav, so still need a minimal paper map and a compass). I only spend a couple weeks a year backpacking so I wouldn't choose a phone purely based on that; but if I were in the market for an update this cycle I'd consider it. Edit: Looks like the Air is 165 g, vs 187 g for the 15 Pro; not even an ounce difference. A bit more compared to the 17 Pro (206 g); but I probably just hold on until Russia collapses into a new metastable state and we can get bulk titanium again.
      - GuB-42 1y ago
        I have tried my luck with portable solar panels, and my conclusion is that in most cases, they suck. For a solar panel to be useful you need: - At least a few days without access to electricity, otherwise even at max power, you won't get as much charge as a similarly sized power bank - Good sunlight, preferably in the summer (more daylight) - No shade, which is the opposite of what you want in hot and sunny summer days - Correct placement for your solar panel, for example, having it hanging from your backpack will only work if you have the sun in your back - A large enough solar panel, these tiny panels you sometimes find on power banks are useless - Compatible devices. Solar panels have a variable power output, not all devices support it, some of them just shut down charging. Your best bet is to use a compatible power bank, but that information is not often specified. Test it beforehand! My experience with a solar panel is from two week-long music festivals in the summer, which would be almost ideal conditions. My experience was that over the course of a week, I got about the charge equivalent of a 10Ah battery from my solar panel (rated 10W, 300g), so about half the efficiency of that gummy bear battery, for the reasons cited earlier. Maybe I could have done better with a better panel and better planning, but I'd rather have a battery, much more convenient, and cheaper too. I want to enjoy the festival, not babysit my solar panel. So I'd say you need at least a week without electricity in the best conditions to make a solar panel worth it, preferably more, which I believe is rather uncommon. Also, I am talking about these portable <1kg solar panels. The large solar panels that go in your car/van are another story.
  - calmoo 1y ago
    Out of curiosity where in the desert do you hike and where would you recommend? I have a particular attraction to being in the American desert but never have hiked it properly.
    - dghlsakjg 1y ago
      The "American desert" can refer to an absolutely huge portion of the continent, and many, many different ecosystems. Its a big enough area of land that it is like saying I like hiking in Europe. I'm partial to Utah's canyonlands, and a lot of the adjacent pinyon forest (still desert) in Northern New Mexico and Colorado, but that's just where I grew up. The Saguaro forests in southern Arizona are also amazing. If you've never been to the desert in America, a good plan would be to fly to LA, and drive to the Grand Canyon. You will pass through a number of very different desert ecosystems.
    - prawn 1y ago
      Southern Utah gives you a huge bang for buck. And you can spread a little further to add fantastic stuff in surrounding states. I'm not American but have flown from Australia several times to hike in Utah and its neighbours. In 10-14 days, you can do an exceptional loop from Las Vegas taking in: Bryce Canyon NP Byway 12 Capitol Reef NP Goblin Valley Dead Horse Point SP Arches NP Canyonlands NP Goosenecks SP Horseshoe Bend Antelope Canyon Zion NP Valley of Fire SP That's all very accessible (besides The Maze in Canyonlands, which is superb but takes 4x4 and/or solid hiking to get into). Then when you go back, you can do places requiring a bit more planning like Coyote Gulch (amazing), Buckskin Gulch (also amazing), and secondary spots like Natural Bridges, SR 95, etc. Hundreds of great places in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, etc, and all before you get to adding anything more remote or long distance.
    - addaon 1y ago
      I live in southern Utah, between Zion, Bryce, and the Grand Canyon, right next to Escalante. There's plenty of stuff within a day's drive of here; previously mentioned, plus Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Arches, and all the state parks, national forests, etc.
- vasco 1y ago
  Better not forget to take a shit in the morning ever, or all your efforts are wasted.
- jfengel 1y ago
  I'm surprised that the gram weenies are carrying a battery at all. Carrying a phone at all must be galling, but you really need it for emergencies (and final pickup).
2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain.
- lightedman 1y ago
  Pain equals gain. Most ultralight hikers optimize for low weight, I optimize for low weight and maximum leftover space to haul a ton of weight back. https://imgur.com/a/ezPqNG1 https://imgur.com/a/ezPqNG1 Cuz trust me, you don't wanna leave that behind when you find it.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Leave only footprints, take only pictures! Leave no trace. Everything you take is stolen from the next.
  - zparky 1y ago
    yours will be an unpopular view, for good reason. however it is funny imagining you hiking back with a backpack full of stolen rocks.
    - steve_adams_86 1y ago
      Is it really so bad? My son and I have hiked out to fairly remote places and dug up some rocks to find fossils. I know there are more there and very few people are likely to visit the spot, let alone to find fossils in the dirt. We leave very little trace at all. Is this actually frowned upon?
    - lightedman 1y ago
      Stolen? I have mining claims. What's stolen? To boot, these are in areas nobody hikes because it's too dangerous for hikers. These are in actual mining districts.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      To clarify, it depends on where you are. In the US, federal land comes in different tiers of protection. National Parks are tourist destinations, generally requiring you to stay on trail, take nothing, leave nothing, etc. National Wilderness Areas allow you off trail, but no motor vehicles. National Forests allow a pretty varied level of recreational usage, often including non-commercial rockhounding, and may allow off-road vehicles (depends on the forest), and then Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land is basically a free-for-all, allowing pretty much any recreational activity and even commercial activity with the appropriate permits. Out here in the west, you'll find a LOT of land in all 4 categories, not to mention state-level parks, which at least here in California allow some rockhounding near streams and beaches.
heelix 1y ago
The trick to lighter packs for many was weighing everything. Not uncommon to break everything down by grams - which tells you what could be improved. No point in spending $50 on a .5oz spoon, if your pack is coming in at 4lbs. Does help optimize where things could be cut and where the faf is. Lets you focus on what you really want to bring in when you have a breakdown of everything you bring. I really like lighterpack.com for my trip planning. Very easy to bring crap you don't need as well. Always surprised me how much an extra hoodie or something would add to what was on my back. Also there is a 'stupid' light, where shaving grams is silly. Was shrinking down my hammock tarp and discovered my setup was not great when the wind shifted direction. When it comes to power bricks, smaller things like this is great for the normal laptop bag or purse. This is cheap enough that I'd send it off to be black holed with all the other bricks I lend my kid.
- JohnFen 1y ago
  > Very easy to bring crap you don't need as well. This is so true it's not even funny. I keep a spreadsheet for each trip, and among other things, I record which of the items I actually used on the trips. It was very surprising to me how many things I thought I used and therefore needed, but when reviewing the records, I never (or very rarely) actually used. Those items get cut from future loads.
  - rconti 1y ago
    Even on run of the mill international vacations, my wife and I always casually debrief on what we brought too much of, what we didn't use, etc. Traveling light is nice, even when you're not backpacking.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    I'm not a backpacker, but I presume there is stuff you normally don't use, but don't want to be without. Some amount of first-aid supplies, etc.
    - strken 1y ago
      For me, a not-particularly-lightweight hiker with a 10kg base weight, that list includes: - a knife - a first-aid kit with some niche stuff like big gauze pads, electrolytes, strapping tape, etc. - quarter of a roll of toilet paper - a compass and whistle - a paper map - spare laces - 3L of water, unless water is guaranteed to be available (2L is more standard) - spare calories in case I'm delayed - emergency beacon (except my phone does this now) I could sacrifice these and be fine most of the time, but I've needed nearly everything except the whistle, the full quarter-roll, and the emergency beacon.
matwood 1y ago
A guy I knew biked across part of Europe and borrowed a travel book of mine. He bought me a new one when he got back because he would tear out the pages of places he visited in order to lighten his load.
binary132 1y ago
I mean, maybe that makes sense if you carry 50+ pages of maps, but carrying a whole book of maps on a single expedition doesn’t.
- JohnFen 1y ago
  Paper is very heavy. Even if you just carry a single map, you could likely save much of an ounce by trimming the borders.
  - int_19h 1y ago
    And then there are things such as maps printed on silk...
    - eichin 1y ago
      ... and tyvek (no idea if that wins on weight, but they're disproportionately durable)
  - eru 1y ago
    If you are bringing your phone anyway, might as well use that for your mapping needs? You can have a backup paper map inked on your skin.
    - prawn 1y ago
      I have previously wondered about printed handkerchiefs and bandanas that functioned as backup maps. Invest in my kickstarter!
      - heelix 1y ago
        https://truenorthmapco.com https://truenorthmapco.com True North makes a great bandana sized map of the BWCA areas.
      - eru 1y ago
        That's a great idea! (Mildly amusing, I first read 'printed handkerchiefs and bananas'. Like paint your map on the skin of your apple, or the shell of your hardboiled eggs.)
int_19h 1y ago
There's a point past which it becomes a number game without any practical utility. But there's a lot of people (especially hereabouts!) that find this kind of thing very enticing. Think of min-maxing D&D builds... it's kind of like that, but your rulebook is basically physics.
chrisweekly 1y ago
Tangent: as a web performance consultant, I've sometimes used "shaving down half the toothbrush handle while carrying a bowling ball in your backpack" as a metaphor for misguided performance optimization efforts.
- jancsika 1y ago
  To turn it back around-- your entire codebase is on the hiker's back. They feel its aggregate weight with every step. It's all literally in the hot path. When bugs show up in the form of back pain, "pre-optimize everything" sounds like a sensible option to me.
  - chrisweekly 1y ago
    Ok, but I'd still say start with the low-hanging fruit.
dreadnip 1y ago
I’ve met people on trail with 5-6 pound baseweights. Crazy world out there.
- WithinReason 1y ago
  does that include food and water?
  - cess11 1y ago
    No, it's likely a bag, a hammock, a small gas bottle with burner and pot, and perhaps sleeping bag, tarp and some gadgets and eating utensils, plus an extra set of clothes. I.e. the core equipment you're going to reuse indefinitely. Perhaps they weigh in things like reusable bottles and the like too. Personally I'm not into paying a premium for "ultralight" and similar so I might have misinterpreted something when glancing at people that seem to be. For me part of the hiking experience is getting used to carrying weight and living off equipment that would work in a crisis or adjacent to armed conflict, i.e. my basic gear clocks in at about twenty kilos or so, though that's enough to feed and 'house' about four people. Two field kitchens, teepee-style storage tent as well as a large pyramidal tent for sleeping, field spade, handheld radio units for the family/team, fishing equipment, &c. Usually I carry ~10 liters of water, a liter of ethanol, food, spare clothes and whatnot on top of it. I find that lowering weight into the single digits doesn't give me that much extra range consistently over several days so I'd rather set up camp close to the area where I'd need it and leave some weight behind while I take on the more demanding trail or climb. At the end of the day it's going to be an endurance activity rather than a sprint anyway, at least for a non-athletic button pusher in his forties, like me. Clearly people that mostly roam areas close to cities or that have joint issues or similar would have reason to make other decisions.
  - JohnFen 1y ago
    With ultralighters, food and water aren't usually counted in the weight. I'm no ultralighter, but I rarely carry water aside from a 16oz bag to sip on while I'm heading towards my destination. Water is crazy heavy. I make sure that the route I'm taking, and my destination, have water nearby that I filter and drink.
duxup 1y ago
I recall reading about mountain climbing and some experienced climber was joking about the folks who are all about the weight and gear and so forth. He didn't say it was unimportant, but he did say that everything that makes him better than the amateurs, or even amateurs better than other amateurs had nothing to do with gear or weight fixation. It was the same thing when I got into photography. It's always easy to talk about the easily measurable things. This lens is better than that and so on. Gear is cool and fun... But the old guy with the beat up camera and not optimal lens shooting next to me ... he will take better photos almost every single shot.

by Zanni 1y ago

JohnFen 1y ago

That insane over-optimization is how folks are getting down to (and below) 10 pounds. I'm not even remotely an ultralight backpacker, but I do count ounces (no matter what your weight limit is, you can't escape making tradeoffs to stay within it). Your hiking load is a great example of how quickly apparently insignificant quantities can add up. Saving fractions of an ounce multiple times gets you large savings far more quickly than you'd think.

anonymars 1y ago
The topic reminds me of the .NET core peanut butter improvements: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvements-in-net-6/#%E2%80%9Cpeanut-butter%E2%80%9D https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvemen...
addaon 1y ago
I'm down to around 10 lb base load. And then I hike in the desert where I carry 5 - 7 liters of water (11 - 15 lbs). And food. Saving a pound here and there is totally worth it, but there's a large part of the country where prudent hiking means the majority of your weight is water.
- jeffbee 1y ago
  If saving here and there is worth it, why would a hiker carry a 300g battery? Imagine the savings from leaving that boat anchor at home along with whatever obviously non-essential gadget wants to be recharged.
  - addaon 1y ago
    I don't carry a battery, but I do carry a solar panel that weighs around 300 g. I use my phone when backpacking as a GPS receiver, map, flashlight, and eBook reader. Phone + solar panel weighs less than paperback + paper map + flashlight, gives me more flexibility for adjusting plans, and doesn't leave me out of novel after a few days.
    - otoburb 1y ago
      Assuming you could afford it, would the new iPhone Air be a consideration in your ultralight base load going forward?
      - addaon 1y ago
        Potentially? I have an iPhone 15 Pro now, which I got both because it was lighter than previous equivalents, and was the first (?) with direct-to-satellite, which I definitely value. I know I can get ~5 days of navigation (but not reading) out of it, which is one of the reasons I don't take a backup battery (the solar panel isn't a single point of failure; but of course the phone still is for nav, so still need a minimal paper map and a compass). I only spend a couple weeks a year backpacking so I wouldn't choose a phone purely based on that; but if I were in the market for an update this cycle I'd consider it. Edit: Looks like the Air is 165 g, vs 187 g for the 15 Pro; not even an ounce difference. A bit more compared to the 17 Pro (206 g); but I probably just hold on until Russia collapses into a new metastable state and we can get bulk titanium again.
    - GuB-42 1y ago
      I have tried my luck with portable solar panels, and my conclusion is that in most cases, they suck. For a solar panel to be useful you need: - At least a few days without access to electricity, otherwise even at max power, you won't get as much charge as a similarly sized power bank - Good sunlight, preferably in the summer (more daylight) - No shade, which is the opposite of what you want in hot and sunny summer days - Correct placement for your solar panel, for example, having it hanging from your backpack will only work if you have the sun in your back - A large enough solar panel, these tiny panels you sometimes find on power banks are useless - Compatible devices. Solar panels have a variable power output, not all devices support it, some of them just shut down charging. Your best bet is to use a compatible power bank, but that information is not often specified. Test it beforehand! My experience with a solar panel is from two week-long music festivals in the summer, which would be almost ideal conditions. My experience was that over the course of a week, I got about the charge equivalent of a 10Ah battery from my solar panel (rated 10W, 300g), so about half the efficiency of that gummy bear battery, for the reasons cited earlier. Maybe I could have done better with a better panel and better planning, but I'd rather have a battery, much more convenient, and cheaper too. I want to enjoy the festival, not babysit my solar panel. So I'd say you need at least a week without electricity in the best conditions to make a solar panel worth it, preferably more, which I believe is rather uncommon. Also, I am talking about these portable <1kg solar panels. The large solar panels that go in your car/van are another story.
- calmoo 1y ago
  Out of curiosity where in the desert do you hike and where would you recommend? I have a particular attraction to being in the American desert but never have hiked it properly.
  - dghlsakjg 1y ago
    The "American desert" can refer to an absolutely huge portion of the continent, and many, many different ecosystems. Its a big enough area of land that it is like saying I like hiking in Europe. I'm partial to Utah's canyonlands, and a lot of the adjacent pinyon forest (still desert) in Northern New Mexico and Colorado, but that's just where I grew up. The Saguaro forests in southern Arizona are also amazing. If you've never been to the desert in America, a good plan would be to fly to LA, and drive to the Grand Canyon. You will pass through a number of very different desert ecosystems.
  - prawn 1y ago
    Southern Utah gives you a huge bang for buck. And you can spread a little further to add fantastic stuff in surrounding states. I'm not American but have flown from Australia several times to hike in Utah and its neighbours. In 10-14 days, you can do an exceptional loop from Las Vegas taking in: Bryce Canyon NP Byway 12 Capitol Reef NP Goblin Valley Dead Horse Point SP Arches NP Canyonlands NP Goosenecks SP Horseshoe Bend Antelope Canyon Zion NP Valley of Fire SP That's all very accessible (besides The Maze in Canyonlands, which is superb but takes 4x4 and/or solid hiking to get into). Then when you go back, you can do places requiring a bit more planning like Coyote Gulch (amazing), Buckskin Gulch (also amazing), and secondary spots like Natural Bridges, SR 95, etc. Hundreds of great places in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, etc, and all before you get to adding anything more remote or long distance.
  - addaon 1y ago
    I live in southern Utah, between Zion, Bryce, and the Grand Canyon, right next to Escalante. There's plenty of stuff within a day's drive of here; previously mentioned, plus Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Arches, and all the state parks, national forests, etc.
vasco 1y ago
Better not forget to take a shit in the morning ever, or all your efforts are wasted.
jfengel 1y ago
I'm surprised that the gram weenies are carrying a battery at all. Carrying a phone at all must be galling, but you really need it for emergencies (and final pickup).

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago

Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain.

lightedman 1y ago
Pain equals gain. Most ultralight hikers optimize for low weight, I optimize for low weight and maximum leftover space to haul a ton of weight back. https://imgur.com/a/ezPqNG1 https://imgur.com/a/ezPqNG1 Cuz trust me, you don't wanna leave that behind when you find it.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Leave only footprints, take only pictures! Leave no trace. Everything you take is stolen from the next.
- zparky 1y ago
  yours will be an unpopular view, for good reason. however it is funny imagining you hiking back with a backpack full of stolen rocks.
  - steve_adams_86 1y ago
    Is it really so bad? My son and I have hiked out to fairly remote places and dug up some rocks to find fossils. I know there are more there and very few people are likely to visit the spot, let alone to find fossils in the dirt. We leave very little trace at all. Is this actually frowned upon?
  - lightedman 1y ago
    Stolen? I have mining claims. What's stolen? To boot, these are in areas nobody hikes because it's too dangerous for hikers. These are in actual mining districts.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    To clarify, it depends on where you are. In the US, federal land comes in different tiers of protection. National Parks are tourist destinations, generally requiring you to stay on trail, take nothing, leave nothing, etc. National Wilderness Areas allow you off trail, but no motor vehicles. National Forests allow a pretty varied level of recreational usage, often including non-commercial rockhounding, and may allow off-road vehicles (depends on the forest), and then Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land is basically a free-for-all, allowing pretty much any recreational activity and even commercial activity with the appropriate permits. Out here in the west, you'll find a LOT of land in all 4 categories, not to mention state-level parks, which at least here in California allow some rockhounding near streams and beaches.

heelix 1y ago

The trick to lighter packs for many was weighing everything. Not uncommon to break everything down by grams - which tells you what could be improved. No point in spending $50 on a .5oz spoon, if your pack is coming in at 4lbs. Does help optimize where things could be cut and where the faf is. Lets you focus on what you really want to bring in when you have a breakdown of everything you bring. I really like lighterpack.com for my trip planning. Very easy to bring crap you don't need as well. Always surprised me how much an extra hoodie or something would add to what was on my back. Also there is a 'stupid' light, where shaving grams is silly. Was shrinking down my hammock tarp and discovered my setup was not great when the wind shifted direction. When it comes to power bricks, smaller things like this is great for the normal laptop bag or purse. This is cheap enough that I'd send it off to be black holed with all the other bricks I lend my kid.

JohnFen 1y ago
> Very easy to bring crap you don't need as well. This is so true it's not even funny. I keep a spreadsheet for each trip, and among other things, I record which of the items I actually used on the trips. It was very surprising to me how many things I thought I used and therefore needed, but when reviewing the records, I never (or very rarely) actually used. Those items get cut from future loads.
- rconti 1y ago
  Even on run of the mill international vacations, my wife and I always casually debrief on what we brought too much of, what we didn't use, etc. Traveling light is nice, even when you're not backpacking.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  I'm not a backpacker, but I presume there is stuff you normally don't use, but don't want to be without. Some amount of first-aid supplies, etc.
  - strken 1y ago
    For me, a not-particularly-lightweight hiker with a 10kg base weight, that list includes: - a knife - a first-aid kit with some niche stuff like big gauze pads, electrolytes, strapping tape, etc. - quarter of a roll of toilet paper - a compass and whistle - a paper map - spare laces - 3L of water, unless water is guaranteed to be available (2L is more standard) - spare calories in case I'm delayed - emergency beacon (except my phone does this now) I could sacrifice these and be fine most of the time, but I've needed nearly everything except the whistle, the full quarter-roll, and the emergency beacon.

matwood 1y ago

A guy I knew biked across part of Europe and borrowed a travel book of mine. He bought me a new one when he got back because he would tear out the pages of places he visited in order to lighten his load.

binary132 1y ago

I mean, maybe that makes sense if you carry 50+ pages of maps, but carrying a whole book of maps on a single expedition doesn’t.

JohnFen 1y ago
Paper is very heavy. Even if you just carry a single map, you could likely save much of an ounce by trimming the borders.
- int_19h 1y ago
  And then there are things such as maps printed on silk...
  - eichin 1y ago
    ... and tyvek (no idea if that wins on weight, but they're disproportionately durable)
- eru 1y ago
  If you are bringing your phone anyway, might as well use that for your mapping needs? You can have a backup paper map inked on your skin.
  - prawn 1y ago
    I have previously wondered about printed handkerchiefs and bandanas that functioned as backup maps. Invest in my kickstarter!
    - heelix 1y ago
      https://truenorthmapco.com https://truenorthmapco.com True North makes a great bandana sized map of the BWCA areas.
    - eru 1y ago
      That's a great idea! (Mildly amusing, I first read 'printed handkerchiefs and bananas'. Like paint your map on the skin of your apple, or the shell of your hardboiled eggs.)

int_19h 1y ago

There's a point past which it becomes a number game without any practical utility. But there's a lot of people (especially hereabouts!) that find this kind of thing very enticing. Think of min-maxing D&D builds... it's kind of like that, but your rulebook is basically physics.

chrisweekly 1y ago

Tangent: as a web performance consultant, I've sometimes used "shaving down half the toothbrush handle while carrying a bowling ball in your backpack" as a metaphor for misguided performance optimization efforts.

jancsika 1y ago
To turn it back around-- your entire codebase is on the hiker's back. They feel its aggregate weight with every step. It's all literally in the hot path. When bugs show up in the form of back pain, "pre-optimize everything" sounds like a sensible option to me.
- chrisweekly 1y ago
  Ok, but I'd still say start with the low-hanging fruit.

dreadnip 1y ago

I’ve met people on trail with 5-6 pound baseweights. Crazy world out there.

WithinReason 1y ago
does that include food and water?
- cess11 1y ago
  No, it's likely a bag, a hammock, a small gas bottle with burner and pot, and perhaps sleeping bag, tarp and some gadgets and eating utensils, plus an extra set of clothes. I.e. the core equipment you're going to reuse indefinitely. Perhaps they weigh in things like reusable bottles and the like too. Personally I'm not into paying a premium for "ultralight" and similar so I might have misinterpreted something when glancing at people that seem to be. For me part of the hiking experience is getting used to carrying weight and living off equipment that would work in a crisis or adjacent to armed conflict, i.e. my basic gear clocks in at about twenty kilos or so, though that's enough to feed and 'house' about four people. Two field kitchens, teepee-style storage tent as well as a large pyramidal tent for sleeping, field spade, handheld radio units for the family/team, fishing equipment, &c. Usually I carry ~10 liters of water, a liter of ethanol, food, spare clothes and whatnot on top of it. I find that lowering weight into the single digits doesn't give me that much extra range consistently over several days so I'd rather set up camp close to the area where I'd need it and leave some weight behind while I take on the more demanding trail or climb. At the end of the day it's going to be an endurance activity rather than a sprint anyway, at least for a non-athletic button pusher in his forties, like me. Clearly people that mostly roam areas close to cities or that have joint issues or similar would have reason to make other decisions.
- JohnFen 1y ago
  With ultralighters, food and water aren't usually counted in the weight. I'm no ultralighter, but I rarely carry water aside from a 16oz bag to sip on while I'm heading towards my destination. Water is crazy heavy. I make sure that the route I'm taking, and my destination, have water nearby that I filter and drink.

duxup 1y ago

I recall reading about mountain climbing and some experienced climber was joking about the folks who are all about the weight and gear and so forth. He didn't say it was unimportant, but he did say that everything that makes him better than the amateurs, or even amateurs better than other amateurs had nothing to do with gear or weight fixation. It was the same thing when I got into photography. It's always easy to talk about the easily measurable things. This lens is better than that and so on. Gear is cool and fun... But the old guy with the beat up camera and not optimal lens shooting next to me ... he will take better photos almost every single shot.