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I have a Remarkable 2 that I used to use religiously, now use sporadically, but cannot recommend because of the user-hostile changes to the subscription and the

I have a Remarkable 2 that I used to use religiously, now use sporadically, but cannot recommend because of the user-hostile changes to the subscription and the very restrictive underlying software. One of the promises that lead me to buy one was the hackability - "It's Linux!" "You can SSH into it!", which, on paper (heh) is still true, but in practice very much isn't. I think something like a Boox, which runs Android, might be more open to customization, but for now I am back to pencil and paper. That doesn't run Linux, but it also won't change its terms of service anytime soon.

KeplerBoy 1y ago
The boox indeed is nice. These days I do quite a bit of field work outdoors (taking measurements, ssh'ing into mobile equipment) and a laptop is a chore to use in broad daylight. With the boox I can connect a bluetooth keyboard and install termux. It's not a perfect setup, but sure beats squinting at a dim screen.
- lvncelot 1y ago
  Ha, I actually thought about getting a Boox when I started spending some time in my garden to work this summer cause of that exact same reason. Good to hear that it's actually feasible.
  - hypercube33 1y ago
    Both of you caught my curiosity so I went reading about these. On paper they seem perfect but it sounds like there are build quality issues and their warranty leaves a lot to be desired (reports of devices failing after months and warranty says it's $275 to fix, user fault) so I am steering clear.
tpoacher 1y ago
Out of curiosity, what were the user hostile changes you mention?
- nosianu 1y ago
  You got the cloud functions for free initially. Now you have to have a subscription. Mine is still free - the pre-order buyers were left with a free subscription after that change.
  - hahn-kev 1y ago
    Very frustrating because it hides syncing your data into 3rd party clouds, not just their priority one. So I can't sync with Google Drive without paying them, which is very weird.
    - cooperadymas 1y ago
      This is not the case. https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-without-a-subscription https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...
      - JeremyNT 1y ago
        I was under the impression that this isn't so much "sync" as it is just enabling manual file management with these services. Is that incorrect?
  - hn8726 1y ago
    Isn't that an argument for Remarkable? You had the cloud functions for free and you've been grandfathered in. New buyers always knew that they'd need a subscription for that. Seems perfectly fair, even if you dislike the functionality (which is still very optional)
    - nosianu 1y ago
      I'm not complaining but explaining, answering the question.
    - cooperadymas 1y ago
      Yes, this is the correct interpretation. I'm baffled how this is getting spun as a bad thing.
InsideOutSanta 1y ago
Yes, same. I have one that was grandfathered into the "no subscription" system, which means I can't buy another one (not sure if I will keep the ability not to have a subscription), and can't in good conscience recommend it to anyone else. I do have a Boox Note Air4, which I bought with the intention of replacing the ReMarkable. On the plus side, it runs Android apps, but on the minus side, the UI is much less polished than the ReMarkable. Having said that, if I had the choice between the two, and weren't grandfathered into the no-subscription option, I would pick the Boox.
- IamCanadian 1y ago
  Yes. Your grandfather status will automatically carry over to your new device. I have purchased all the Remarkable units since day 1. My grandfather status has been in interrupted.
- jfim 1y ago
  I believe the lifetime free subscription is an account setting, not a per device setting. If you go to my.remarkable.com and check the connect subscription page, it should say it's free as a reward for being an early customer. You can also connect more than one device to the account nowadays.
  - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
    That's good to know, thank you very much!
motbus3 1y ago
Nice to know. I was considering it but that is a deal breaker for me. I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the sold me.
- goku12 1y ago
  > I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the[y] sold me. That's an interesting way of describing that. Don't mind if I steal this quote for when I might need it. Messaging matters!
  - motbus3 1y ago
    If anyone complains say it was AI generated. Who cares about copyright nowadays right?
    - goku12 1y ago
      :D Sad, but funny!
- cooperadymas 1y ago
  You can completely and fully use the device without any subscription. They only charge for the usage of their cloud services. Remarkable has not "stolen" anything back which they sold. On the contrary, they grandfathered in users which bought a device prior to their charging for a subscription so that they all have free access.
  - mcphage 1y ago
    > They only charge for the usage of their cloud services. What features require usage of their cloud services?
    - cooperadymas 1y ago
      Primarily, syncing your documents between multiple Remarkable devices and their apps on your phone. The page on their site for it spells out everything pretty well. https://remarkable.com/shop/connect https://remarkable.com/shop/connect
polskibus 1y ago
Which Boox in particular would you recommend?
- RMPR 1y ago
  It mostly depends on your needs, the Note Air series is good if you are on the go while the bigger models like the Note Air Max are fit for a more stationary use.
amelius 1y ago
The enshittification is everywhere ...
solarkraft 1y ago
FWIW I didn’t like the Boox experience: For writing you’re limited to the stock notes app, which I didn’t find usable: You can’t even zoom in it (something I thought would obviously be possible when choosing the smaller Nova 2). It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life.
- RMPR 1y ago
  > It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life. While some models have a disappointing battery life, it's most definitely because of BSR[0] not because of them running Android. I had a Note Air 3 and that thing got easily 2 weeks of battery life with heavy use while the BSR version (Note Air 3C) barely survived 2 days. 0: https://shop.boox.com/blogs/news/boox-super-refresh-bsr-technology https://shop.boox.com/blogs/news/boox-super-refresh-bsr-tech...
- kybernetikos 1y ago
  I've been using a boox note air for many years and you definitely can zoom on that. Android is great for this use case because it lets me syncthing notes and use sheet music apps and use both kindle and kobo and calibre library and offline wikipedia and my own tools. As far as I'm concerned if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong, but android is a massive step above what everyone else is offering (i.e. none of that)
  - solarkraft 1y ago
    > because it lets me syncthing notes I know this probably doesn’t exactly fit your use case, but I’ve actually been able to do this with a Kindle Touch (yes, from 2011)! It was a super serene experience to have your books synced over into KOReader. > if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong I agree, but I felt that’s what the system invited me to do (may just be my tinkerer genes though). Update notifications, etc, web browsing, hoops to jump through to share files ... How‘s your note sync workflow? Can you reasonably easily and quickly access your handwritten notes from a laptop? Last I checked there was some manual export step to jump through.
cooperadymas 1y ago
Remarkable itself does not promote the devices as hackable. That's the community that has evolved around it taking advantage of the company leaving the device open in this way. Furthermore, there is quite a thriving ecosystem[1] of custom software for the devices, so your assessment of it not working in practice is empirically untrue. > the very restrictive underlying software This is by design, based on publicly espoused principles, and everything about the product branding makes it very explicit and obvious. No one should buy a Remarkable device and be surprised about how restrictive it is. > the user-hostile changes to the subscription The "user-hostile" changes to the subscription is that they are charging for it. It is worth emphasizing that nothing is restricted with device usage if you do not have a subscription. They expect you to pay if you want to use anything which runs through their cloud services, which is undeniably reasonable. You can sync to other cloud providers without an active subscription.[2] [1] https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable [2] https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-without-a-subscription https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...
- Melatonic 1y ago
  Topographic maps would be amazing for these but I doubt we see that anytime soon
- kstrauser 1y ago
  I almost bought one before I realized I’d be subscribing to it. No, that’s absolutely not reasonable given the price of the unit. These things aren’t syncing videos. They’re moving some text and PDFs around. Even Apple gives you permanently free iCloud services when you own any Apple device, with the complaint being that they should give you more storage, not that you can’t use it at all.
  - dbingham 1y ago
    This is really unreasonable entitlement. Expecting perpetually free cloud services of any kind is wholely unreasonable. Clouds have monthly costs. The only reason companies like Apple can offer them is because they are very well capitalized. They offer them to addict you. Small companies and startups that don't have access to cheap capital cannot afford to do that, and it's much more honest for them to not do that!
JeremyNT 1y ago
> One of the promises that lead me to buy one was the hackability - "It's Linux!" "You can SSH into it!", which, on paper (heh) is still true, but in practice very much isn't. Can you expand on this a bit? Can't you still run third party software on the newer iterations?
- cooperadymas 1y ago
  Yes. The Paper Pro (and presumably the Move) require you to explicitly enable developer mode in order to enable ssh access where older devices had it enabled by default. USB still works. It is, however, not easy to toggle dev mode on and off - so once you activate it you will probably keep it active.

KeplerBoy 1y ago

The boox indeed is nice. These days I do quite a bit of field work outdoors (taking measurements, ssh'ing into mobile equipment) and a laptop is a chore to use in broad daylight. With the boox I can connect a bluetooth keyboard and install termux. It's not a perfect setup, but sure beats squinting at a dim screen.

lvncelot 1y ago
Ha, I actually thought about getting a Boox when I started spending some time in my garden to work this summer cause of that exact same reason. Good to hear that it's actually feasible.
- hypercube33 1y ago
  Both of you caught my curiosity so I went reading about these. On paper they seem perfect but it sounds like there are build quality issues and their warranty leaves a lot to be desired (reports of devices failing after months and warranty says it's $275 to fix, user fault) so I am steering clear.

tpoacher 1y ago

Out of curiosity, what were the user hostile changes you mention?

nosianu 1y ago
You got the cloud functions for free initially. Now you have to have a subscription. Mine is still free - the pre-order buyers were left with a free subscription after that change.
- hahn-kev 1y ago
  Very frustrating because it hides syncing your data into 3rd party clouds, not just their priority one. So I can't sync with Google Drive without paying them, which is very weird.
  - cooperadymas 1y ago
    This is not the case. https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-without-a-subscription https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...
    - JeremyNT 1y ago
      I was under the impression that this isn't so much "sync" as it is just enabling manual file management with these services. Is that incorrect?
- hn8726 1y ago
  Isn't that an argument for Remarkable? You had the cloud functions for free and you've been grandfathered in. New buyers always knew that they'd need a subscription for that. Seems perfectly fair, even if you dislike the functionality (which is still very optional)
  - nosianu 1y ago
    I'm not complaining but explaining, answering the question.
  - cooperadymas 1y ago
    Yes, this is the correct interpretation. I'm baffled how this is getting spun as a bad thing.

InsideOutSanta 1y ago

Yes, same. I have one that was grandfathered into the "no subscription" system, which means I can't buy another one (not sure if I will keep the ability not to have a subscription), and can't in good conscience recommend it to anyone else. I do have a Boox Note Air4, which I bought with the intention of replacing the ReMarkable. On the plus side, it runs Android apps, but on the minus side, the UI is much less polished than the ReMarkable. Having said that, if I had the choice between the two, and weren't grandfathered into the no-subscription option, I would pick the Boox.

IamCanadian 1y ago
Yes. Your grandfather status will automatically carry over to your new device. I have purchased all the Remarkable units since day 1. My grandfather status has been in interrupted.
jfim 1y ago
I believe the lifetime free subscription is an account setting, not a per device setting. If you go to my.remarkable.com and check the connect subscription page, it should say it's free as a reward for being an early customer. You can also connect more than one device to the account nowadays.
- InsideOutSanta 1y ago
  That's good to know, thank you very much!

motbus3 1y ago

Nice to know. I was considering it but that is a deal breaker for me. I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the sold me.

goku12 1y ago
> I'm tired of companies trying to steal back what the[y] sold me. That's an interesting way of describing that. Don't mind if I steal this quote for when I might need it. Messaging matters!
- motbus3 1y ago
  If anyone complains say it was AI generated. Who cares about copyright nowadays right?
  - goku12 1y ago
    :D Sad, but funny!
cooperadymas 1y ago
You can completely and fully use the device without any subscription. They only charge for the usage of their cloud services. Remarkable has not "stolen" anything back which they sold. On the contrary, they grandfathered in users which bought a device prior to their charging for a subscription so that they all have free access.
- mcphage 1y ago
  > They only charge for the usage of their cloud services. What features require usage of their cloud services?
  - cooperadymas 1y ago
    Primarily, syncing your documents between multiple Remarkable devices and their apps on your phone. The page on their site for it spells out everything pretty well. https://remarkable.com/shop/connect https://remarkable.com/shop/connect

polskibus 1y ago

Which Boox in particular would you recommend?

RMPR 1y ago
It mostly depends on your needs, the Note Air series is good if you are on the go while the bigger models like the Note Air Max are fit for a more stationary use.

amelius 1y ago

The enshittification is everywhere ...

solarkraft 1y ago

FWIW I didn’t like the Boox experience: For writing you’re limited to the stock notes app, which I didn’t find usable: You can’t even zoom in it (something I thought would obviously be possible when choosing the smaller Nova 2). It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life.

RMPR 1y ago
> It also has a full Android system, which comes with advantages for sure but invites distractions and leads to very disappointing battery life. While some models have a disappointing battery life, it's most definitely because of BSR[0] not because of them running Android. I had a Note Air 3 and that thing got easily 2 weeks of battery life with heavy use while the BSR version (Note Air 3C) barely survived 2 days. 0: https://shop.boox.com/blogs/news/boox-super-refresh-bsr-technology https://shop.boox.com/blogs/news/boox-super-refresh-bsr-tech...
kybernetikos 1y ago
I've been using a boox note air for many years and you definitely can zoom on that. Android is great for this use case because it lets me syncthing notes and use sheet music apps and use both kindle and kobo and calibre library and offline wikipedia and my own tools. As far as I'm concerned if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong, but android is a massive step above what everyone else is offering (i.e. none of that)
- solarkraft 1y ago
  > because it lets me syncthing notes I know this probably doesn’t exactly fit your use case, but I’ve actually been able to do this with a Kindle Touch (yes, from 2011)! It was a super serene experience to have your books synced over into KOReader. > if you try to use it as a generic android tablet you're doing it wrong I agree, but I felt that’s what the system invited me to do (may just be my tinkerer genes though). Update notifications, etc, web browsing, hoops to jump through to share files ... How‘s your note sync workflow? Can you reasonably easily and quickly access your handwritten notes from a laptop? Last I checked there was some manual export step to jump through.

cooperadymas 1y ago

Remarkable itself does not promote the devices as hackable. That's the community that has evolved around it taking advantage of the company leaving the device open in this way. Furthermore, there is quite a thriving ecosystem[1] of custom software for the devices, so your assessment of it not working in practice is empirically untrue. > the very restrictive underlying software This is by design, based on publicly espoused principles, and everything about the product branding makes it very explicit and obvious. No one should buy a Remarkable device and be surprised about how restrictive it is. > the user-hostile changes to the subscription The "user-hostile" changes to the subscription is that they are charging for it. It is worth emphasizing that nothing is restricted with device usage if you do not have a subscription. They expect you to pay if you want to use anything which runs through their cloud services, which is undeniably reasonable. You can sync to other cloud providers without an active subscription.[2] [1] https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable [2] https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-without-a-subscription https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...

Melatonic 1y ago
Topographic maps would be amazing for these but I doubt we see that anytime soon
kstrauser 1y ago
I almost bought one before I realized I’d be subscribing to it. No, that’s absolutely not reasonable given the price of the unit. These things aren’t syncing videos. They’re moving some text and PDFs around. Even Apple gives you permanently free iCloud services when you own any Apple device, with the complaint being that they should give you more storage, not that you can’t use it at all.
- dbingham 1y ago
  This is really unreasonable entitlement. Expecting perpetually free cloud services of any kind is wholely unreasonable. Clouds have monthly costs. The only reason companies like Apple can offer them is because they are very well capitalized. They offer them to addict you. Small companies and startups that don't have access to cheap capital cannot afford to do that, and it's much more honest for them to not do that!

JeremyNT 1y ago

> One of the promises that lead me to buy one was the hackability - "It's Linux!" "You can SSH into it!", which, on paper (heh) is still true, but in practice very much isn't. Can you expand on this a bit? Can't you still run third party software on the newer iterations?

cooperadymas 1y ago
Yes. The Paper Pro (and presumably the Move) require you to explicitly enable developer mode in order to enable ssh access where older devices had it enabled by default. USB still works. It is, however, not easy to toggle dev mode on and off - so once you activate it you will probably keep it active.