7 ms·

It is pretty strange that a country doesn't control what is going in and what is going out. In a small European country I'm most familiar with, everything is ch

It is pretty strange that a country doesn't control what is going in and what is going out. In a small European country I'm most familiar with, everything is checked by customs officers. Dogs, x-rays, customs declarations, import taxes.

dec0dedab0de 1y ago
T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶r̶y̶ The more shipments you have, the more officers you need. The more officers you have, the better the chance one of them is working for organized crime.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  Although, your number of entry points should scale like your perimeter, while your population to pull agents from should scale like your area, so unless you have a very weird geometry this should get easier as you increase in size, right? Airports not included.
  - mandevil 1y ago
    Why should population scale with area? The top ten countries in area are: Russia (#9 in population) Canada (#37) China (#2) USA (#3) Brazil (#7) Australia (#54) India (#1) Argentina (#33) Kazakhstan (#62) Algeria (#32) There doesn't seem to be much relationship between the two?
    - macleginn 1y ago
      If we believe that Claude pulled correct data: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/d74a7c48-b5a1-4d86-acc2-e8fab85436cb https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/d74a7c48-b5a1-4d86-acc2-e...
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    The main factor is the quantity of goods which need to be inspected, and that tends to scale with the population which is buying the goods. > your number of entry points should scale like your perimeter Is that really true? An entry-point is generally something the people choose to create to satisfy the pre-existing need to transport goods, by building roads, rail, harbor-piers, etc. Border-checkpoint facilities don't spontaneously generate in trackless wilderness or barren coastlines, like some fantasy-dungeon that the Adventurers' Guild must periodically raid in to avert a stampede of monsters.
    - bee_rider 1y ago
      > Is that really true? Probably not true, but very intuitive!
lifestyleguru 1y ago
The scale and logistics of major ports like Barcelona, Hamburg, or Rotterdam are unimaginable.
yelling_cat 1y ago
The article covers this: > Around the world, border agencies overwhelmingly focus on imports, hunting for people and drugs. In many countries, exports are hardly checked at all. Anyone can book a container.
nikcub 1y ago
You can't inspect everything without creating a huge friction on trade. Australia is well known for it's tight borders - not just for security but for quarantine as well. It only inspects ~5% of containers and ~80% of interceptions are driven by intelligence. The later is how you solve this. The stolen goods trade described in the article is likely centred around a few key networks that could be taken down with resourcing intelligence and law enforcement. The article itself states that the UK has failed to arrest any top-level members. Cut the head off and you'll see the pull factor of street-level thefts removed, or at least disrupted.
MattGrommes 1y ago
The incentives just don't seem to be there. This boggled my mind: > For each container Mr Gibson holds up and searches, the police must pay the port a fee of £200.
- dmurray 1y ago
  The image seems to show him cutting the container open with an angle grinder. Do you want the police to be able to destructively enter any property without making the owner whole? Yeah, in this case there was a stolen Porsche in it, but most of the time it's likely to be an innocent shipment.
  - dghlsakjg 1y ago
    They were cutting the tamper seal off. That is a disposable metal part that sells for a few cents. It is supposed to be removed destructively, and authorities do it all the time for inspection purposes, document the serial number of seal they removed, and tell the shipper what the new seal is. Sometimes its a lock, but most shippers don't do that since it is a hassle to get the keys to the receiver, and customs will cut your lock off. The act of sealing the container after inspection makes the owner whole. While it is "destructive" in a very strict sense, it damages no property in any relevant way. Any shipper anywhere on earth is well aware that their container can be opened by the authorities at any time.
  - immibis 1y ago
    That's a thing in the USA. The police bulldozed someone's house and didn't pay a dime. The family sued the police and lost, because the law says the police can just do that - bulldoze your home "to catch a criminal" - and they don't have to compensate you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLvSYJvSkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLvSYJvSkw You don't want this. As long as the police are actually catching criminals, the fee shouldn't bother them. It's probably not that much compared to the rest of the cost of the operation. Sibling comment says the seal is worth a few cents, but ignores the inconvenience of someone having to go to the port and replace the seal, plus the possible delay in getting it loaded. These containers and their contents are worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars each. A $200 fee to be able to mess with one is not unreasonable.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

dec0dedab0de 1y ago

T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶r̶y̶ The more shipments you have, the more officers you need. The more officers you have, the better the chance one of them is working for organized crime.

bee_rider 1y ago
Although, your number of entry points should scale like your perimeter, while your population to pull agents from should scale like your area, so unless you have a very weird geometry this should get easier as you increase in size, right? Airports not included.
- mandevil 1y ago
  Why should population scale with area? The top ten countries in area are: Russia (#9 in population) Canada (#37) China (#2) USA (#3) Brazil (#7) Australia (#54) India (#1) Argentina (#33) Kazakhstan (#62) Algeria (#32) There doesn't seem to be much relationship between the two?
  - macleginn 1y ago
    If we believe that Claude pulled correct data: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/d74a7c48-b5a1-4d86-acc2-e8fab85436cb https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/d74a7c48-b5a1-4d86-acc2-e...
- Terr_ 1y ago
  The main factor is the quantity of goods which need to be inspected, and that tends to scale with the population which is buying the goods. > your number of entry points should scale like your perimeter Is that really true? An entry-point is generally something the people choose to create to satisfy the pre-existing need to transport goods, by building roads, rail, harbor-piers, etc. Border-checkpoint facilities don't spontaneously generate in trackless wilderness or barren coastlines, like some fantasy-dungeon that the Adventurers' Guild must periodically raid in to avert a stampede of monsters.
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    > Is that really true? Probably not true, but very intuitive!

lifestyleguru 1y ago

The scale and logistics of major ports like Barcelona, Hamburg, or Rotterdam are unimaginable.

yelling_cat 1y ago

The article covers this: > Around the world, border agencies overwhelmingly focus on imports, hunting for people and drugs. In many countries, exports are hardly checked at all. Anyone can book a container.

nikcub 1y ago

You can't inspect everything without creating a huge friction on trade. Australia is well known for it's tight borders - not just for security but for quarantine as well. It only inspects ~5% of containers and ~80% of interceptions are driven by intelligence. The later is how you solve this. The stolen goods trade described in the article is likely centred around a few key networks that could be taken down with resourcing intelligence and law enforcement. The article itself states that the UK has failed to arrest any top-level members. Cut the head off and you'll see the pull factor of street-level thefts removed, or at least disrupted.

MattGrommes 1y ago

The incentives just don't seem to be there. This boggled my mind: > For each container Mr Gibson holds up and searches, the police must pay the port a fee of £200.

dmurray 1y ago
The image seems to show him cutting the container open with an angle grinder. Do you want the police to be able to destructively enter any property without making the owner whole? Yeah, in this case there was a stolen Porsche in it, but most of the time it's likely to be an innocent shipment.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  They were cutting the tamper seal off. That is a disposable metal part that sells for a few cents. It is supposed to be removed destructively, and authorities do it all the time for inspection purposes, document the serial number of seal they removed, and tell the shipper what the new seal is. Sometimes its a lock, but most shippers don't do that since it is a hassle to get the keys to the receiver, and customs will cut your lock off. The act of sealing the container after inspection makes the owner whole. While it is "destructive" in a very strict sense, it damages no property in any relevant way. Any shipper anywhere on earth is well aware that their container can be opened by the authorities at any time.
- immibis 1y ago
  That's a thing in the USA. The police bulldozed someone's house and didn't pay a dime. The family sued the police and lost, because the law says the police can just do that - bulldoze your home "to catch a criminal" - and they don't have to compensate you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLvSYJvSkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLvSYJvSkw You don't want this. As long as the police are actually catching criminals, the fee shouldn't bother them. It's probably not that much compared to the rest of the cost of the operation. Sibling comment says the seal is worth a few cents, but ignores the inconvenience of someone having to go to the port and replace the seal, plus the possible delay in getting it loaded. These containers and their contents are worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars each. A $200 fee to be able to mess with one is not unreasonable.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]