11 ms·

There's a reason most people you run into SF are either here on O1 or h1b visas these days... Time to cull the waterloo crowd and maybe think twice about cheap

There's a reason most people you run into SF are either here on O1 or h1b visas these days... Time to cull the waterloo crowd and maybe think twice about cheap outsourcing to latam and india.

justinhj 1y ago
if it means I can hire Waterloo graduates again here in Canada that sounds fantastic
- mertleee 1y ago
  I couldn't agree more! Canada has massive potential, albeit also large issues with their immigration system being gamed. In my opinion, outsourcing is a larger evil. The money used to pay the salaries of outsourced engineers should be taxed at-least at 20% (along with remittances to India) akin to what we currently penalize foreign countries for maliciously suppressing the cost of physical goods. This is called Countervailing Duty or Anti Dumping Duty penalties. I've reached my limit with the entitlement of these people in the united states. Especially systematically excluding americans or non-indians once they reach a hiring level / role.
  - s5300 1y ago
    [dead]
  - trade2play 1y ago
    Indian software wages are about 1/3 US. The U.S. would need to tax them much more to dissuade outsourcing.
    - la64710 1y ago
      How will you tax people in India sitting here in US?
akavi 1y ago
As an American citizen, born and bred, I would literally, physically fight you on behalf of keeping Waterloo grads in America. Many of the best coworkers I've had the pleasure of working with, not to mention the founders of the company I spent over a quarter of my career at (Pagerduty).
- philosophty 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - kanbara 1y ago
    there is no more american dream, and anyone who “creates” jobs in this economy and era of rampant hypercapitalism isn’t really enabling or transferring wealth. if there were ample americans to do these jobs, they should be able to get them. nationalism is a silly idea, anyway. and we should have free trade and movement with our biggest two allies. american exceptionalism is a joke
    - philosophty 1y ago
      You're arguing that Americans have no more right to success in America than non-Americans. I don't think many Americans will agree with you. And neither will most people from any other country agree about their own country's success.
      - dvrj101 1y ago
        > Americans have no more right to success in America than non-Americans. Americans literally voted to defund the education system, voted for administration(s) that will amplify spending money to hire foreigners to keep America center of top talent/skill across domains and most importantly voted for extreme capitalism. Indians or Canadians are not forcing US to hire them bud, https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statisti...
        1y ago
pj_mukh 1y ago
It's not most people you meet, its most people you remember you meet. https://dictionary.apa.org/distinctiveness-effect https://dictionary.apa.org/distinctiveness-effect
greesil 1y ago
I'm sure there are other smart USians but shit there's a fuckload more globally and I get to work with them and it's great. And then if they stay long enough they become citizens. My rule of thumb is if I'm the smartest person in the room then we've got serious problems.
- hazek112 1y ago
  If they're so smart maybe they should help their own country build companies...
  - greesil 1y ago
    Well that's how you get competent foreign competitors, congratulations.
  - lovich 1y ago
    I really appreciate this generation of my fellow countrymen who just completely ignore all the benefits of brain draining literally every country on the planet of their ambitious and intelligent youth. Oh well, better tell em all to go back. Might as well tell our allies to rearm because we’re worried about being ripped off. I for one will not feel ripped off when Germany has a functioning military again. It has always gone well for the planet when Europe is armed and angry
    - s5300 1y ago
      [dead]
    - la64710 1y ago
      Just because you are losing does not mean you can change the rules of the game midway. Who kicked off globalization in the first place?
      - lovich 1y ago
        I have no idea what your point is with your first sentence. For your second sentence, what size of organization are you looking for? There was no single person or entity who decided to kick that off unilaterally
joshdavham 1y ago
> Time to cull the waterloo crowd Are implying that reducing the number of graduates from a single program (CS) at one specific university (Waterloo) from a country 10x smaller from the US (Canada) will help lower tech employment in California?
- tstrimple 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    Why should US graduates compete with non-US workers in the US? Call me scared or incompetent or uncompetitive but I just don't want to compete in that way. All those people can stay in their countries and out-compete US grads there.
    - hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
      Because technology is a global industry and if you can’t compete with these workers you surely won’t be able to compete with these workers when the company that was willing to pay them $150k to work in San Francisco can pay them $50k to work out of Romania. Instead of that individual now paying 80-90% of their income to US taxes and US businesses and saving the rest in U.S. banks providing even cheaper capital for US businesses, they will be doing the same in Romania. And worse, if that person does create a new startup, the majority of employees hired will be in Romania, and only a tiny fraction would be Americans who moved there to work for that company, and would be competing with American companies with a much lower cost basis. But hey, Romania will be pleased for sure.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        I'll take the other side of this bet.
hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
Corporations are just absolutely devastated at the fact that they cannot hire an H1B in California for $150k but will now have to hire the exact same person in India for $60k in one of the most remote friendly industries in the world.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  If your sarcastic comment were true they'd be offshoring wholesale even with the existence of the H1B program.
  - dilyevsky 1y ago
    Take a guess where majority of google cloud hiring is these days
- horns4lyfe 1y ago
  You honestly don’t think they already do that as much as possible?
yodsanklai 1y ago
Arguably, the purpose of a company is to generate profit. If US companies need skilled workers that they can't find locally, they will open or expand their international offices. At least the O1/H1B visa holders pay taxes in the US and contribute to the local economy.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Arguably the purpose of a country is the furtherance of its citizenry. The US system should be set up to disincentivize US companies from bringing scab labor into the US. In practical terms this would look like eliminating H1B/O1 programs.
- hazek112 1y ago
  The United States is not an economic zone. Non-resident visa holders are not citizens and act accordingly against the interests of citizens and their families.

There's a reason most people you run into SF are either here on O1 or h1b visas these days... Time to cull the waterloo crowd and maybe think twice about cheap outsourcing to latam and india.

justinhj 1y ago

if it means I can hire Waterloo graduates again here in Canada that sounds fantastic

mertleee 1y ago
I couldn't agree more! Canada has massive potential, albeit also large issues with their immigration system being gamed. In my opinion, outsourcing is a larger evil. The money used to pay the salaries of outsourced engineers should be taxed at-least at 20% (along with remittances to India) akin to what we currently penalize foreign countries for maliciously suppressing the cost of physical goods. This is called Countervailing Duty or Anti Dumping Duty penalties. I've reached my limit with the entitlement of these people in the united states. Especially systematically excluding americans or non-indians once they reach a hiring level / role.
- s5300 1y ago
  [dead]
- trade2play 1y ago
  Indian software wages are about 1/3 US. The U.S. would need to tax them much more to dissuade outsourcing.
  - la64710 1y ago
    How will you tax people in India sitting here in US?

akavi 1y ago

As an American citizen, born and bred, I would literally, physically fight you on behalf of keeping Waterloo grads in America. Many of the best coworkers I've had the pleasure of working with, not to mention the founders of the company I spent over a quarter of my career at (Pagerduty).

philosophty 1y ago
[flagged]
- kanbara 1y ago
  there is no more american dream, and anyone who “creates” jobs in this economy and era of rampant hypercapitalism isn’t really enabling or transferring wealth. if there were ample americans to do these jobs, they should be able to get them. nationalism is a silly idea, anyway. and we should have free trade and movement with our biggest two allies. american exceptionalism is a joke
  - philosophty 1y ago
    You're arguing that Americans have no more right to success in America than non-Americans. I don't think many Americans will agree with you. And neither will most people from any other country agree about their own country's success.
    - dvrj101 1y ago
      > Americans have no more right to success in America than non-Americans. Americans literally voted to defund the education system, voted for administration(s) that will amplify spending money to hire foreigners to keep America center of top talent/skill across domains and most importantly voted for extreme capitalism. Indians or Canadians are not forcing US to hire them bud, https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statisti...
      - 1y ago

pj_mukh 1y ago

It's not most people you meet, its most people you remember you meet. https://dictionary.apa.org/distinctiveness-effect https://dictionary.apa.org/distinctiveness-effect

greesil 1y ago

I'm sure there are other smart USians but shit there's a fuckload more globally and I get to work with them and it's great. And then if they stay long enough they become citizens. My rule of thumb is if I'm the smartest person in the room then we've got serious problems.

hazek112 1y ago
If they're so smart maybe they should help their own country build companies...
- greesil 1y ago
  Well that's how you get competent foreign competitors, congratulations.
- lovich 1y ago
  I really appreciate this generation of my fellow countrymen who just completely ignore all the benefits of brain draining literally every country on the planet of their ambitious and intelligent youth. Oh well, better tell em all to go back. Might as well tell our allies to rearm because we’re worried about being ripped off. I for one will not feel ripped off when Germany has a functioning military again. It has always gone well for the planet when Europe is armed and angry
  - s5300 1y ago
    [dead]
  - la64710 1y ago
    Just because you are losing does not mean you can change the rules of the game midway. Who kicked off globalization in the first place?
    - lovich 1y ago
      I have no idea what your point is with your first sentence. For your second sentence, what size of organization are you looking for? There was no single person or entity who decided to kick that off unilaterally

joshdavham 1y ago

> Time to cull the waterloo crowd Are implying that reducing the number of graduates from a single program (CS) at one specific university (Waterloo) from a country 10x smaller from the US (Canada) will help lower tech employment in California?

tstrimple 1y ago
[flagged]
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Why should US graduates compete with non-US workers in the US? Call me scared or incompetent or uncompetitive but I just don't want to compete in that way. All those people can stay in their countries and out-compete US grads there.
  - hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
    Because technology is a global industry and if you can’t compete with these workers you surely won’t be able to compete with these workers when the company that was willing to pay them $150k to work in San Francisco can pay them $50k to work out of Romania. Instead of that individual now paying 80-90% of their income to US taxes and US businesses and saving the rest in U.S. banks providing even cheaper capital for US businesses, they will be doing the same in Romania. And worse, if that person does create a new startup, the majority of employees hired will be in Romania, and only a tiny fraction would be Americans who moved there to work for that company, and would be competing with American companies with a much lower cost basis. But hey, Romania will be pleased for sure.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      I'll take the other side of this bet.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago

Corporations are just absolutely devastated at the fact that they cannot hire an H1B in California for $150k but will now have to hire the exact same person in India for $60k in one of the most remote friendly industries in the world.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
If your sarcastic comment were true they'd be offshoring wholesale even with the existence of the H1B program.
- dilyevsky 1y ago
  Take a guess where majority of google cloud hiring is these days
horns4lyfe 1y ago
You honestly don’t think they already do that as much as possible?

yodsanklai 1y ago

Arguably, the purpose of a company is to generate profit. If US companies need skilled workers that they can't find locally, they will open or expand their international offices. At least the O1/H1B visa holders pay taxes in the US and contribute to the local economy.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Arguably the purpose of a country is the furtherance of its citizenry. The US system should be set up to disincentivize US companies from bringing scab labor into the US. In practical terms this would look like eliminating H1B/O1 programs.
hazek112 1y ago
The United States is not an economic zone. Non-resident visa holders are not citizens and act accordingly against the interests of citizens and their families.