6 ms·

Where in the linked pdf is any evidence that the reported content was actually innocent? If the content which Israel reported to meta was truly pro-terror, the

Where in the linked pdf is any evidence that the reported content was actually innocent? If the content which Israel reported to meta was truly pro-terror, then surely there's no problem here - a nation who is the target of a terrorist group, can spend their taxes reducing pro-terror group content online. It's only a problem if, as the report alleges, the content was not pro-terror, but that's not actually evidenced anywhere

icw_nru 1y ago
Human rights watch's report covers more individual examples. To quote: "Of the 1,050 cases reviewed for this report, 1,049 involved peaceful content in support of Palestine that was censored or otherwise unduly suppressed, while one case involved removal of content in support of Israel." This leak aims at looking at the bigger picture across all of Meta's 3 billion users. Of course, Meta can chose examples of actually violating posts removed and show that as counter proof, or even posts that are violating that are not yet removed. But anyone familiar with how ML models work knows that false positives / false negatives exists. Its the degree to which the ML models primarily censor almost any content related to Israel/Palestine, the systemic nature of targeting specific countries, such as Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, and the fact that per-capita, Israel is the country that most abuses the content enforcement system (3x more than any other country).
- notavalleyman 1y ago
  > Of course, Meta can chose examples of actually violating posts removed and show that are counter proof, or even posts that are violating that are not yet removed No, meta don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's you who alleges that the content should have stayed up, so what's your evidence? You're telling me I need to go and read a HRW pdf instead? Okay where is that?
  - text0404 1y ago
    google search for "human rights watch israel censorship" turned this up: https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2023/12/ip_meta1223%20web.pdf https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2023/12/ip_met... check "illustrative examples" section.
  - icw_nru 1y ago
    The report: https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/systemic-censorship-palestine-content-instagram-and https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/... Unfortunately links to individual posts can't be accessed as the posts themselves are removed. The HRW report is excellent as they documented this individual cases and recorded them.
    - notavalleyman 1y ago
      Okay well you don't have any proof, any in general, I would consider it a good use of tax shekels to reduce the number of pro-hamas posts on social media. So until you can dig up any proof, I'm considering this whole post to be a nothing burger
      - icw_nru 1y ago
        Did you look at the article? This investigation directly corroborates existing reports from third parties like Human Rights Watch. There is even an intake form directly from the Israeli government calling for the censorship posts of posts at Meta. We even posted their phone and fax number in case anyone is interested in having a friendly chat with them. All data collected is directly from Meta, and the whisteblowers themselves are open to sharing this data with any authority or court willing to look into this. Everything is well documented. Where and how the data was obtained is also documented as well. Or alternatively, you can wait for the next leak.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - alangibson 1y ago
    Wow, is almost like you're committed to obfuscation what Israel is doing. Couldn't possibly be that tho...
- strulovich 1y ago
  All 1049 posts were peaceful? The pdf mentions this was mostly after October 7th, a terrorist (as in, meant to induce fear by targeting civilians) attack which was live streamed on Facebook and posted repeatedly during that day. I’m surprised the Israelis are so capable with intelligence, yet bungled this so much that not one post they pointed out was violent? I’m happy to stand corrected, but when someone shows a perfect record in a data review I’m naturally suspicious. EDIT: I’m confusing the linked PDF and HRW’s report. But I still have doubts about HRW’s numbers.
  - whatshisface 1y ago
    In this case it's being alleged that sending a thousand false takedown requests which were then acted on would not be a bungling, but rather a success.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 1y ago
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parineum 1y ago
This was my takeaway as well. The pdf says there's a 95% accept rate on their takedown requests. They use that as evidence of censorship but, to me, that looks like evidence of judicious requests that meta agrees with. Without data on what was taken down, there's no way to explain the difference. There's no reason not to make the entire dataset public (anonymized if you'd like but, since the content is implied to be benign, what's the harm in not?) and show some examples. The implication that, because Israel submits the most requests that they must be acting in bad faith makes sense only of all countries had an equal amount of content generated that they'd like filtered. It's very easy for me to believe that Israel would have more content directed towards it that violated the Meta TOS.
rsoto2 1y ago
Israel is not the target of a terrorist group. It is a terrorist state subjugating a trapped population to forced starvation and hunger. It's a second holocaust live streamed to your phone and you still think they are acting rationally. Oppressed people have the right to violence just because they're brown doesn't make them "terrorists," that's actually quite the racist worldview.
- rsoto2 1y ago
  self determination, through-violence*
- halflife 1y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_... Would you say that this list is incorrect? Or that any attack on civilians in Israel is justified and thus not a terrorist attack?
  - rsoto2 1y ago
    Do you think Israel was created through peace or through zionist bombing attacks? Do you think only the brown bombers should be labelled terrorists? You sound racist and like you're ok enabling the killing of children. As a doctor Tarek Loubani reported today "I've been to many wars, it has never felt like the war is against children"
    - cogman10 1y ago
      No, you see, it's not terror when the bomb falls from a jet fighter or a drone /s.
      - monocasa 1y ago
        Or when it's biological warfare on civilians for the purpose of depopulation either apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread
alangibson 1y ago
In the words of the ancient Spartans: If

icw_nru 1y ago

Human rights watch's report covers more individual examples. To quote: "Of the 1,050 cases reviewed for this report, 1,049 involved peaceful content in support of Palestine that was censored or otherwise unduly suppressed, while one case involved removal of content in support of Israel." This leak aims at looking at the bigger picture across all of Meta's 3 billion users. Of course, Meta can chose examples of actually violating posts removed and show that as counter proof, or even posts that are violating that are not yet removed. But anyone familiar with how ML models work knows that false positives / false negatives exists. Its the degree to which the ML models primarily censor almost any content related to Israel/Palestine, the systemic nature of targeting specific countries, such as Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, and the fact that per-capita, Israel is the country that most abuses the content enforcement system (3x more than any other country).

notavalleyman 1y ago
> Of course, Meta can chose examples of actually violating posts removed and show that are counter proof, or even posts that are violating that are not yet removed No, meta don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's you who alleges that the content should have stayed up, so what's your evidence? You're telling me I need to go and read a HRW pdf instead? Okay where is that?
- text0404 1y ago
  google search for "human rights watch israel censorship" turned this up: https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2023/12/ip_meta1223%20web.pdf https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2023/12/ip_met... check "illustrative examples" section.
- icw_nru 1y ago
  The report: https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/systemic-censorship-palestine-content-instagram-and https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/... Unfortunately links to individual posts can't be accessed as the posts themselves are removed. The HRW report is excellent as they documented this individual cases and recorded them.
  - notavalleyman 1y ago
    Okay well you don't have any proof, any in general, I would consider it a good use of tax shekels to reduce the number of pro-hamas posts on social media. So until you can dig up any proof, I'm considering this whole post to be a nothing burger
    - icw_nru 1y ago
      Did you look at the article? This investigation directly corroborates existing reports from third parties like Human Rights Watch. There is even an intake form directly from the Israeli government calling for the censorship posts of posts at Meta. We even posted their phone and fax number in case anyone is interested in having a friendly chat with them. All data collected is directly from Meta, and the whisteblowers themselves are open to sharing this data with any authority or court willing to look into this. Everything is well documented. Where and how the data was obtained is also documented as well. Or alternatively, you can wait for the next leak.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- alangibson 1y ago
  Wow, is almost like you're committed to obfuscation what Israel is doing. Couldn't possibly be that tho...
strulovich 1y ago
All 1049 posts were peaceful? The pdf mentions this was mostly after October 7th, a terrorist (as in, meant to induce fear by targeting civilians) attack which was live streamed on Facebook and posted repeatedly during that day. I’m surprised the Israelis are so capable with intelligence, yet bungled this so much that not one post they pointed out was violent? I’m happy to stand corrected, but when someone shows a perfect record in a data review I’m naturally suspicious. EDIT: I’m confusing the linked PDF and HRW’s report. But I still have doubts about HRW’s numbers.
- whatshisface 1y ago
  In this case it's being alleged that sending a thousand false takedown requests which were then acted on would not be a bungling, but rather a success.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

parineum 1y ago

This was my takeaway as well. The pdf says there's a 95% accept rate on their takedown requests. They use that as evidence of censorship but, to me, that looks like evidence of judicious requests that meta agrees with. Without data on what was taken down, there's no way to explain the difference. There's no reason not to make the entire dataset public (anonymized if you'd like but, since the content is implied to be benign, what's the harm in not?) and show some examples. The implication that, because Israel submits the most requests that they must be acting in bad faith makes sense only of all countries had an equal amount of content generated that they'd like filtered. It's very easy for me to believe that Israel would have more content directed towards it that violated the Meta TOS.

rsoto2 1y ago

Israel is not the target of a terrorist group. It is a terrorist state subjugating a trapped population to forced starvation and hunger. It's a second holocaust live streamed to your phone and you still think they are acting rationally. Oppressed people have the right to violence just because they're brown doesn't make them "terrorists," that's actually quite the racist worldview.

rsoto2 1y ago
self determination, through-violence*
halflife 1y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_... Would you say that this list is incorrect? Or that any attack on civilians in Israel is justified and thus not a terrorist attack?
- rsoto2 1y ago
  Do you think Israel was created through peace or through zionist bombing attacks? Do you think only the brown bombers should be labelled terrorists? You sound racist and like you're ok enabling the killing of children. As a doctor Tarek Loubani reported today "I've been to many wars, it has never felt like the war is against children"
  - cogman10 1y ago
    No, you see, it's not terror when the bomb falls from a jet fighter or a drone /s.
    - monocasa 1y ago
      Or when it's biological warfare on civilians for the purpose of depopulation either apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread

alangibson 1y ago

In the words of the ancient Spartans: If