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I guess the Israeli government's original plan to arm and support drug gangs and literally ISIS (euphemistically called 'clans') as "aid security" wasn't worki

• lukan 1y ago
  To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to the scandal of intentionally targeting civilian population and indiscriminate killing of starving people like the article states. Edit: But I just read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_aid_convoy_looting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_aid_convoy_loot... And well, that is indeed better to show who we are dealing with, ruthless criminals who loot and shoot a UN aid convoy for profit.
  • fakedang 1y ago
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    • lukan 1y ago
      No, because drug dealers by definition mainly sell drugs to people who want them. A subset of them indeed engages with dark methods like mixing highly addictive drugs into harmless ones and turf war, but the majority just sells things. Before weed was legal in germany I engaged with quite some of them and they were mostly decent people all in all. Not the greatest and often messed up themself a bit, but otherwise no danger to me or anyone else. My choice if I damaged myself with their products. A islamist on the other hand is buisy by definition with spreading the rule of Islam over everyone, everywhere. Dangerous to any non muslim.
      • fakedang 1y ago
        So you're equating the drug dealing "clans" in Gaza to your local streetside dealer in Germany? Both Hamas and the clans are cancers to society, and it's abhorrent that the IDF is dealing with them to distribute aid, instead of being directly involved (which they can easily commit to).
        • lukan 1y ago
          My main issue was equating the term "drug dealer" with something worse than a terrorist. Now as my edit above hopefully made clear, apparently they ain't just "drug dealers", but ruthless criminals who loot and shoot a UN aid convoy for profit. And abhorrent are indeed many things about the whole situation.
  • ben_w 1y ago
    > To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? A simple dealer vs an armed wing of a religious theocracy who think people like me are the devil incarnate, I'd pick the dealer. An organised armed drug network that necessarily has to be at least comparable strength to an existing network of religious theocrats who are obviously getting external support owing to the ability to continue fighting despite the evidence of systematic destruction of their civil environment that satellite imagery shows has been in aggregate comparable in scope and depth to a nuke going off… I don't want either of them anywhere near anyone I care about. Even if the latter wasn't associated with a different group of religious zealots.
    • deleted 1y ago
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  • tuyguntn 1y ago
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    • dash2 1y ago
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      • arandomusername 1y ago
        > First, Hamas are openly genocidal terrorists Israel is the one actually committing a genocide though. > the claim that Mossad funded ISIS is antisemitic propaganda, on the face of it. Is that why ISIS apologised after accidentally attacking IDF? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is...
        • dash2 1y ago
          Needless to say, that link doesn't prove the claim - not even close. So again, stop spreading antisemitic propaganda.
          • arandomusername 1y ago
            > “There was one case recently where Daesh [Isis] opened fire and apologised,” Mr Ya’alon said speaking at an event and > Mr Ya’alon is the former chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces and served as Defence Minister from 2013 until his resignation in May 2016. So how does it not? Criticizing IDF or Israeli politics is not antisemitic.
            • dttze 1y ago
              They are also funding Islamic State gangs inside of Gaza to terrorize people seeking aid. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-providing-guns-to-gaza-jihadist-gang-to-bolster-opposition-to-hamas/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-providing-guns-to-gaza-...
  • regularization 1y ago
    > I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists Netanyahu prefers Hamas, he was propping them up prior to the current battles, according to the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... Also, if, as in the recent New York City mayoral debate, US politicians are supposed to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which it recognizes itself as, then I don't see the big deal over Palestine as an Islamic state. I myself would prefer to see a secular PFLP state, but the Zionist entity, US, Canada etc. fight against the PFLP, proscribe them as "terrorists" etc.
    • lukan 1y ago
      "he was propping them up prior to the current battles" Those words indicate something different, than allowing quatari money to reach the civilian part of Hamas government as part of a temporary peace deal. Because that sounds actually reasonable to me. Now there is indeed more, like this: "Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who is now Mr. Netanyahu’s finance minister, put it bluntly in 2015, the year he was elected to Parliament. “The Palestinian Authority is a burden,” he said. “Hamas is an asset.”" But those words came without context (just a youtube video, that I won't watch right now).
    • nelox 1y ago
      Ironically, the closest you will get to something approaching that type of Marxist-Leninist utopia in the Middle East, is living in an Israeli kibbutz near the border with Gaza.
      • LudwigNagasena 1y ago
        Why is a civic state in the Middle East is utopia? Do you think that the US not based on white nationalism is also a Marxist-Leninist utopia?
    • LunaSea 1y ago
      Palestinians preferred them as well since they elected Hamas.
  • xg15 1y ago
    It gets ugly at the latest when remembering that "looting" was always a core part of the Israeli narrative to explain the humanitarian crisis. Even before the current siege/semi-siege, the standard response to calls from aid orgs had been essentially "Look, it's not us. We're letting in aid, but it's not our fault if Palestinian armed gangs themselves are looting it after we let it in. Palestinians are just too stupid to organize their own survival." Of course that response was already ridiculous back then: The 1000s of aid trucks stuck at the Egypt-Gazan border are definitely not kept there by Hamas or armed gangs. Even the looting attacks themselves were suspicions: Aid orgs kept reporting they were happening in areas under full control of the IDF - and IDF was forbidding using any other route[1]: > Israel is doing the opposite of ensuring aid can be delivered to Palestinians in need. For example, a U.N. memo recently obtained by the Washington Post concluded that the armed gangs looting aid convoys could be “benefiting from a passive if not active benevolence” and “protection” from Israel’s military, and that a gang leader had a military-like compound in an area “restricted, controlled and patrolled” by the Israeli military. The gangs operate in areas under Israeli control, often within eyeshot of Israeli forces. When convoys are looted, Israeli forces watch and do nothing, even when aid workers request assistance. Israeli forces refer to one area about a kilometer from its Kerem Shalom border checkpoint as “the looting zone.” The IDF-designated looting zone might be the only place in Gaza that Israeli forces won’t shoot an armed Palestinian. But there was still at least some benefit of the doubt that the armed gangs were just some ordinary criminals exploiting the situation. Claims that the gangs themselves were operating under Israeli orders were conspiracy theories. Netanyahu now confirmed those theories as reality. [1] https://responsiblestatecraft.org/gaza-aid/ https://responsiblestatecraft.org/gaza-aid/
  • aaomidi 1y ago
    > To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? Comments like this coming from an audience currently not being genocided is going to haunt our history forever.
    • lukan 1y ago
      Can you get a bit more specific here? Because it kind of reads like an attack towards me for not caring about genocide. If you are curious about my point of view, it is that both Hamas and Israeli leadership belongs in prison and the US and EU should stop supporting them immediately. But that doesn't mean I support anyone who wants to erease Israel. Do you support Hamas?
      • Fraterkes 1y ago
        This is an article about idf warcrimes, I think the comment you are responding to is just pointing out that you are immediately pivotting to condemning Hamas
        • navane 1y ago
          But the comment he's responding to already talks primerely about Hamas, it's not he who switched the topic from IDFs horrors to Hamas crimes. > I guess the Israeli government's original plan to arm and support drug gangs and literally ISIS (euphemistically called 'clans') as "aid security" wasn't working out? Especially after it was revealed said "security" was stealing and reselling the food aid under the protection of IDF while the Israeli govt. and media blamed the looting on Hamas. To which he responded his opinions about drug and faith dealers.
      • aaomidi 1y ago
        Asking if I support Hamas makes this unworthy of a response.
        • lukan 1y ago
  • freen 1y ago
    Well, Israel could have worked with the UN… it’s not the like choices are ONLY Hamas or Drug Dealers. Unless, of course, delivering aid is not actually your intent.
• _l7dh 1y ago
  Sourced articles like these are good and further proof that Israel is a psychopathic state and society. But what's odd is to depict is as "surprising" or even shocking when the same state has been carpet bombing civilian, including women and children for 16 months straight, causing what is estimated at 300 000 deaths, committing every single atrocity or infringement to the international law possible, including targeting medics, journalists, using starvation as a weapon of war, bragging on it on social media, having politicians incite to eradicate the remaining part of the Gaza population, and I could go on and on with nameless atrocities. So just to put things in perspective, this article depicts a horrible incident, but it is entirely in line with the rest of the Israeli policy, and unfortunately pales in comparison with the ongoing large-scale massacre.
  • nelox 1y ago
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