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Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety
- josephlord 14y agoHmmm.... Yes the range is better than other electric cars but half the article is about range anxiety. Maybe not the best link title.
- freehunter 14y agoIt's about range anxiety, and then ends with the relief that they didn't really need to worry too much. 5 hours of driving from an electric car getting 100 mpg-e and matching a BMW M5 stat-for-stat. That impressed them, and it impresses me.
- clarky07 14y agoexcept for the part where they didn't actually make it to their destination. And since most people aren't going to have the charging station 4 miles from their eventual destination, everyone else would have been screwed. Not too mention they now have to wait 30 minutes to get their last 5 miles. still an impressive car :-)
- eavc 14y agoThey intentionally chose a route at the maximum possible millage. Most people would be more conservative.
- freehunter 14y agoMy truck can't do 260 miles on a tank. Luckily, 260 mile journeys are exceedingly rare, rarer in both a truck and a $100k sports car than in anything else. Both of those have tradeoffs on long journeys; the truck costs $70 to fill and the car takes a good amount of time to recharge. Both are enough deterrents of long journeys to keep you living within your means.
- timmyd 14y agoElon Musk is without doubt one the best entrepreneurs around - far less celebrated than many of the other 'uber' entrepreneurs around but with such ridiculously awesome companies. 268 Miles (or slightly less according to the article) is just amazing - less C02, less environmental impact wrapped in a high performance car which - will no doubt - have some detractors as a first iteration against well establish models (comparing it to BMW and Mercedes who have been around for almost 90+ years is a big ask!) None the less - it's ridiculously exciting at what's been achieved and what will be achieved in the next few years in this space. I give it no more than 3-4 years until these cars will be doing 400-500 miles or more.
- elviejo 14y agoI think Elon Musk is over celebrated... He was fired from Pay-Pal He didn't start Tesla Motors (that was Martin Eberhard) He didn't start spaceX He is good at marketing though...
- justinhj 14y agoA similar resume to the late Steve Jobs
- is74 14y agoWhile he was fired from Pay pal, the other two claims are factually false.
- colmvp 14y agoIndeed. I wish I could downvote that comment for inaccurate info.
- elviejo 14y agoI've retracted my comments on SpaceX (it seems he did start that) The Pay Pal Story is well known and documented. As for Tesla Motors... I still claim he didn't found the company. Here are my sources: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4441480 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4441480
- monkeyfacebag 14y agoOff topic, but that star plot was impossible to read. Straight up parallel coordinates would have been an improvement (maybe), but I can't help feeling like, with only 25 data points, a summary table would have been even better. I love visualizations as much as the next guy, but only when they are aids to understanding, not, you know, detriments to it.
- SoftwareMaven 14y agoI disagree. While it was impossible to understand any specifics, that wasn't what they were trying to show. Instead, they were trying to show how Tesla dominates over other EVs (that are all about the same). And it did a great job of showing that, much better than a table would have.
- monkeyfacebag 14y agoThat's fair. I was conflating two things in my initial post: legibility and suitability. Legibility was atrocious; I did not get the same insight from the vis that you did because I couldn't read it. Suitability is, of course, debatable. I find star plots have a fair bit of noise (e.g., line slope) that detracts from the message of the vis. Parallel coordinates are slightly better in this regard, but still require a "discerning eye." However, looking at it again, I agree that a table would be insufficient.
- snowwrestler 14y agoThat article seemed filled with anxiety to me. I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their acquaintances will start to see it as more normal. It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between. Like any bootstrap, it took a long time to create the virtuous cycle that mutually reinforces the value of the customers and the infrastructure. Electric cars will need to go through the same thing. The other big issue is the time to refill. 30 minute quick charge is incredibly fast for electricity, but still incredibly slow compared to filling a gas car.
- Karunamon 14y ago>The other big issue is the time to refill I think that will end up requiring both a social tweak and an infrastructure one. Once people are comfortable with the concept of an electric car, it will be only natural to start requesting (and the necessary civil authorities adding) charging ports in standard parking areas. Imagine in NYC, a parking meter that also has a charging plug for the car. Raise the meter's rate just a bit and you can cover both the electricity and install costs.
- drbawb 14y agoAlso: I'd be far more inclined to pay for a bit of electricity; rather than just paying for the privilege of leaving my box of steel in between two white lines.
- froo 14y agoI'd love to see something along the lines of Intel's Wireless Resonant Energy Link[1] used in conjunction with EV's so that the idea of "plugging them in" can be all but eliminated. If you didn't even have to plug it in, just drive it to work, park it, drive it home, park it and it could charge automagically in both parking spots - its much more convenient than petroleum and would potentially be a big plus FOR getting an EV. 1 - http://software.intel.com/en-us/videos/channel/general/wireless-resonant-energy-link-wrel-demo/1127589936001 http://software.intel.com/en-us/videos/channel/general/wirel...
- jfb 14y agoDon't care still want.
- R_Edward 14y agoIt would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests. Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one. It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so you could get to a recharging station if you overdrive your range. Yes, you have a range gauge, so you never should get into that predicament, but we've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand.
- jfb 14y agoOh, it's goofy, no argument. The only way I'd be buying it is if my income were greater sufficient that it could be kept as a shiny toy. But, oh what a toy.
- stcredzero 14y agowe've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand. In Germany, they write you a ticket for that.
- jonknee 14y ago> It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. You could say that about any luxury car. The vast majority of people simply don't drive more than 250 miles in a day.
- aboodman 14y agoEdit: Whoops, meant Chevy Volt. Why isn't the Leaf doing better? when I heard about it I was super excited, and if I had to replace my Prius, it would be my first choice. I think they hit the tradeoffs just right: for almost all daily driving, you'll never use gasoline. But if you have to do a long trip, you don't have to care about range. What am I missing?
- maxerickson 14y agoThe Leaf is a pure electric. Maybe you crossed it up with the Chevy Volt?
- aboodman 14y agoYup, thanks for the fix.
- swalsh 14y agoI personally, REALLY wanted a leaf. However, there were was only one reason I didn't buy one. I'm a renter. Though Boston is part of a program to install public electric chargers I don't think I can count on 1.) always being able to get that spot and 2.) being able to get a charger at the next place I live at. I'm perfectly ok, with the "short" range. I'm positive 78 miles would cover 90% of my driving needs. If I buy a home, the next car I buy will probably be an EV. Until then, i'm going to keep driving my Infiniti. The program: http://chargepointamerica.com/program-info.php http://chargepointamerica.com/program-info.php
- runako 14y agoThe Leaf is a pure electric without a hybrid capability. According to Nissan's website, its range using a new battery can go as low as 62 miles: http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/range?next=ev_micro.section_nav http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/range?next=ev_mic... It costs twice as much as the Versa it's based on. Basically, it's not a compelling package.
- clarky07 14y agoWhile this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as that charge still wouldn't be enough, i guess i just have to twiddle my thumbs for the second 30 minute stop. Adding an hour to my 6.5 hour drive is not something I'd enjoy. Don't get me wrong, this is awesome for filling the commute hole, but many many people use their cars for longer trips as well. Until you can make it viable for both I'm not spending many tens of thousands of dollars on it.
- cstejerean 14y agoI would expect the number of people that routinely drive 450 mile trips to be greatly outnumbered by those that don't. There is also the option of renting a car for the weekend for those few occasions when you want to take a roadtrip.
- jarito 14y agoGood luck with that. Renting a car for a weekend drive is crazy expensive and varies widely depending on location, time of year, etc. Asking people to pay an unpredictable several hundred dollars for the rental, then pay for gas, several times a year, is not going to work. I'd focus on 2+ car households. I would love to have an electric that doesn't suck and another car for the wife, traveling, hauling kids, etc. The Tesla doesn't work for me in this case because of its price and the other EVs are not interesting enough for me, but hopefully that will change as the prices come down and the tech spreads out.
- clarky07 14y agoYeah you can maybe make it work for a 2 car household getting 1 electric. I agree that renting is not even close to a reasonable option.
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- kennethcwilbur 14y agoI've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter. I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get in. I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a gas car for long road trips and camping, etc., but I don't use it much. The Tesla is very cool. Strangers stop me to talk about it multiple times per week. Customer service has been off the charts. High recommend. Go buy one.
- kennethcwilbur 14y agoI forgot to mention what is maybe the best part. Surprised the article doesn't talk about this. When you drive an EV, acceleration is instant. Like, at the same time your foot goes down, your shoulders get thrown back. Gas cars often take 0.5-2 seconds to get response from the engine, depending on the car & current conditions at the time you accelerate. You get used to the acceleration in the Tesla after a while. But one year in, I'm still loving the instant response. That's what I really miss when I'm driving the gas car. It's just awesome.
- lttlrck 14y agoThe article does talk about this...
- ghostfish 14y agoI think you're attributing to throttle lag something that is primarily attributable to torque (which isn't to say there isn't throttle response lag, just it's a minor component imo). Diesels are similar to EVs in the sense that you don't need to let the engine rev up or downshift to get that "throw you back" feel quickly. Depends on the car, obviously.
- hatcravat 14y agoDepending on the engine computer (or lack thereof), a couple seconds of throttle lag isn't unreasonable. One of the things my flight instructor made a point to show me while learning to fly small planes (with carbureted engines, so the effect was magnified compared to what you'd see on a modern fuel-injected auto) was throttle lag on a balked landing (go-around). Most aircraft engines directly drive the propeller, so there are no transmission effects to confusing things. Shoving the throttle from idle to wide-open can actually cause a dip in RPM as the higher manifold pressure condenses formerly vaporized fuel and the fuel system tries to catch up.
- api 14y agoThank you Elon for giving us back the future. Tnx.
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- protomyth 14y agoIs there a definitive word on battery performance in sub-zero F weather?
- CapOpp 14y agoMultiple Roadsters have been running fine for years above the Arctic Circle. There are actually less issues than with gas powered cars. The second largest market for Model S, behind the U.S. is Norway.
- protomyth 14y agoI understand people use them in cold weather, but I want to know what the actual range turns into. I have read a 20 - 30% reduction in the forums and the regenerative braking is turned off until the batteries heat up.
- iblaine 14y ago$105k for the model tested in this article? Price tag anxiety is still an issue.
- CapOpp 14y agoThats a Founders Signature edition. It's a double whammy for limited editionness and can't be purchased by the general public. Even the straight Sig's are sold out (there were only 1200 allocated to North America). The regular production model that this is based on is the Model S Performance. It's identical, except it has different color and interior options (because its not limited edition). That runs ~$85k after the Federal Rebate, which makes it cheaper than the BMW M5 (a similar competitor in terms of performance, if not practicality). The standard MS85 (the big battery) clocks in at ~$69,900 and is a bit slower than the MSP, but still as fast as a 550i GT, which is basically the same price and a similar car in terms of features. There are cheaper options, but most buyers will be paying $60k and up for the MS60 (few seem to be interested in the MS40) so I can see how that can generate some sticker shock. But hundreds of thousands of cars in this price range get sold in the U.S. every year and the Model S is a bargain in that segment, both in terms of its MSRP and especially in terms of its 5 year total cost of ownership. This is not the Leaf that costs twice as much as its competitors. Model S easily will save its owners $10k+ over 5 years (and likely much more). The Model S is much closer to a $40,000 car in terms of how much money you actually have to have available to pay the monthly payment, insurance, taxes, gas and maintenance.