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Wow it’s so refreshing to know that other people can see this. There is simply not enough private capital investment in Europe. The public money is inevitably

Wow it’s so refreshing to know that other people can see this. There is simply not enough private capital investment in Europe. The public money is inevitably passed through academic hands or other public sector bureaucrats. And it is simply an ineffective way to allocate capital. The money should be returned to private hands where it belongs and those individuals should be the ones to decide how to invest their own capital. Why do so few Europeans get this? It’s like they just can’t stand the idea of a wealthy person investing their own money.

greenavocado 1y ago
[flagged]
- loxodrome 1y ago
  Amen, I should frame this on my wall.
- pembrook 1y ago
  Your description of the European intellectual climate is admittedly accurate if somewhat hyperbolic. But I think your analysis of the root causes is lacking. European humans aren't different organisms than non-european humans. Culture does not form in a vacuum. It comes from base properties of the geography and experiences of humans in the region. In my opinion, it's primarily down to 3 things: 1) Population density: Europe has 3X the population density (and subsequent urbanization) as the US. Urbanization leads to more collectivist attitudes. If you compare European attitudes to those in a high density American location like New York City, you'll be amazed how similar (in everything from religiosity to socialist economic leaning to political philosophy). It's the higher proportion of low population density areas of the US that lead to major differences in political philosophy. 2) Experience of downside risk: European risk aversion is quite easily explained by the fact they have experienced the most extreme version of downside risk imaginable in recent memory (WWII). The worst thing the US knows is a depression. Not total annihilation, fire bombing and markets going to 0. 3) Ethnocentrism: Europe's nationalist ethno-states are far less culturally diverse than the broader US. This leads to a higher capacity of empathy for strangers (because people in a mono-culture are more similar to you, you empathize with them more easily). Ironically though, this empathy is what leads to a higher percentage of GDP being driven by centralized government spending (50% in Europe vs. 30-35ish% in USA). The market is less empathetic, but ultimately more efficient and grows the overall pie faster...even accounting for the additional increase in inequality. Growth compounds exponentially, so this gets more dramatic over time. People in podunk US Midwest States now have a higher disposable income per capita (on both mean and median measures) than people in London, a place you would traditionally think of as among the richest in the world. But again, the US didn't get here because 'culture.' It got here due to design decisions made hundreds of years earlier. Being a multicultural society reveals base human racist leanings, which results in more individualist governance, which leads to a greater embrace of markets and private capital, which leads to faster growth.
  - greenavocado 1y ago
    Coudenhove-Kalergi writes about this dichotomy you mention between urban man and rural man right at the beginning of the book "Practical Idealism." I think you will find it highly relevant. https://archive.org/details/practical-idealism-english-ver-1-2 https://archive.org/details/practical-idealism-english-ver-1...
    - pembrook 1y ago
      Great find, thank you for this!
  - mcv 1y ago
    I'm not so sure your first point is correct. Would you consider the Nordic countries to be collectivist? Because they are among the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, more sparsely than the US, but they are the countries with the best government services. Also, Canada is more sparsely populated the US.
    - pembrook 1y ago
      The north is different due to the weather. I mean, sure, Canadian tundra and the Nordic Arctic and Sub-Arctic is technically land, but I'm not sure you're getting a good comparison of population density by including it in calculations. That would be like calculating the oceans around the US in population density numbers since people live on boats technically. Nordic countries have small populations due to the limitation of arable land to support humans at all. The US has no such limitation and could support vastly more population.
  - opo 1y ago
    You bring up some interesting ideas, though I wonder about this: >Europe has 3X the population density (and subsequent urbanization) as the US. Are you sure about that? >...The population density in Europe is 34 per Km² (87 people per mi²). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula... >...The population density in the United States is 38 per Km² (98 people per mi²). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population...
- ClumsyPilot 1y ago
  > anti-capitalist activists using iPhones, riding in Ubers, and ordering Amazon deliveries… > every single job, iPhone, and modern convenience they enjoy exists because someone, somewhere, took a risk to make a profit. Amazingly capitalists use things invented by socialists, like satellites, or the LED. Or things invested by Nazis and Monarchists. Their favourite iPhone is made by communists, with minerals mined by .. well I am not sure what you call em but they are not capitalists Every day Capitalists use public sanitation, running water, Education, GPS, police and prosecution but they imagine they could exist in a mad max world instead of dying of cholera
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    > Their favourite iPhone is made by communists China has been a capitalist state since the 70s with a turn to State Capitalism in the 2010s. Furthermore, China's leadership remains anti-Welfarism, with Xi himself making speeches against expanding the already weak social safety net. > Every day Capitalists use public sanitation, running water, Education, GPS, police and prosecution but they imagine they could exist in a mad max world instead of dying of cholera Capitalism doesn't preclude public infrastructure. That's just a facile argument. > the LED The modern LED was developed by Texas Instruments and Bell Labs in the 1950s. > like satellites Both the US and the USSR knew about how to launch satellites in space by the mid-1950s. It was the USSR that chose to prioritize it, and the US that chose to deprioritize it.
    - ClumsyPilot 1y ago
      > Capitalism doesn't preclude public infrastructure. That's just a facile argument I am measuring by the same yardstick as the OP. If taxes to pay for public services are good capitalism, then you can’t call Europe socialist. > The modern LED was developed by… Whatever, take Hyperbaric welding. Will a western oil company refuse to use it because it was invented in USSR? The fundamental accusation of the OP is totally hypocritical.
      - alephnerd 1y ago
        > I am measuring by the same yardstick as the OP. Fair enough! Didn't see their argument. Yea that was dumb.
- dr_dshiv 1y ago
  “They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. The entire continent has Stockholm Syndrome from decades of leftist academics preaching that profit = exploitation, as if every entrepreneur is some 19th-century robber baron twirling a mustache” So true!! As a university professor, this nails it. It’s sad — Amsterdam, for instance, used to have such a strong culture of business. But that vitality has greatly diminished.
- sally_glance 1y ago
  Your prior is objectively false, because Europe has the Stripe and Spotify founders (both of which became billionaires during the last 15 years or so).
  - Aloisius 1y ago
    Em. Stripe was founded in Palo Alto. The founders had to move to the California because they couldn't get funding for an earlier startup in Ireland. Spotify though, is Europe's own.
  - screye 1y ago
    Stripe founder (Patrick) spends half his time on Twitter complaining about the entrepreneurial blockers in Europe. Clearly, he considers Stripe to be an American phenomenon.
- BlueTemplar 1y ago
  Have you ever even opened that journal ? This sounds plausible on the surface, but by putting them all in the same basket you show that you have no idea what you are talking about : it's a bit like blaming wokists for their voting for Trump because wokists are from the USA and Trump was elected in the USA...
- fakedang 1y ago
  > In America, a 20-year-old can drop out of college, code an app in his dorm, and become a billionaire. Pedantic but counterpoint, Markus Villig.
- TFYS 1y ago
  Come on, the U.S is devolving into a fascist dictatorship as we speak, mostly due to capitalism and the worship of wealth. And for as long as capitalism remains, it will only get worse and worse, because capitalism is deeply flawed in that it has exponential power concentration built it. Monopolies form and rent seeking wealth siphons the wealth from the working people to the top. Breaking large companies would help, but it's like fighting a fire with buckets of water, eventually concentrating capital corrupts the regulators and this happens. If you can't see the connection between what's happening and capitalism, you really should think about it more objectively. People are also happier in most European countries than they are in the US, because the constant competition for wealth and using wealth as the measure of what everyone is worth is not good for mental health and does not lead to a peaceful society, but one where people are set against each other. Europe has problems, but fixing them with capitalism is not going to lead to better lives for most people.
- coolvision 1y ago
  This is very misleading, just look at the data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_compan... Yes, it's different for different countries, and some EU countries are less startup friently. But countries like Norway or Estonia have ~1 unicorn per 1M people, just 50% of US (~2)
- Snow_Falls 1y ago
  Incredible to see such blind fanaticism here on HN. The sheer ingnorant, anti-europeanism here is incredible. Europe socialist? Hates capitalism? The home of thacher, austerity, the EU is socialist? I just don't even know what media one consumes to get this kind of world view. Is this how american's justify selling their country to the highest bidder? "at least we're not eating toilet paper like the europeans". You know, some of the richest people in the world...
- high_na_euv 1y ago
  >Europeans don't just dislike capitalism. They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. The entire continent has Stockholm Syndrome from decades of leftist academics preaching that profit = exploitation, as if every entrepreneur is some 19th-century robber baron twirling a mustache. Who told you that?
- mbs159 1y ago
  Europeans don't just dislike capitalism. They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. Those are some big assumptions about 750 million people. Would love to see the data on this. > In America, a 20-year-old can drop out of college, code an app in his dorm, and become a billionaire. In Europe? Good luck. Assuming that's the case with you, right? And if not, then why not if it's so simple? Everybody knows that these cases are extremely rare, but they do happen both in the US and in the EU. > The ultimate proof that Europe's system is broken? Its smartest people leave. Engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, they all flee to the U.S., Switzerland, or Singapore, where they're allowed to keep what they earn. Again, would love to see the data on this. Based on my own personal anecdata, one of the reasons why IT engineers don't move to the US despite being offered to do so is because they enjoy the other benefits of living in the EU, like high-speed rail, free health-care, free higher education, being car independent, childcare benefits and having more days off.
whatshisface 1y ago
Instead of giving it all to a few people to spend buying real estate and mineral rights, you could tell the funding agencies that they're allowed to take risks, or give it to people's retirement accounts and let companies seek public investment.
jampekka 1y ago
Looking at what the billionaires are doing in US politics, perhaps there's something to this.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
somethingsome 1y ago
Honestly, in academia you have good hands too, just not every lab. As in business, you also have not so good businesses. Giving it to academia can 10x the result, but yes research is risky, that's why it's important it is founded externally. Companies that profited from research in academia are very happy. Overall I agree, the current European strategy is not optimal, for both Industry and academia.
ClumsyPilot 1y ago
> The money should be returned to private hands where it belongs and those individuals should be the ones to decide how to invest their own capital This is not a meaningful statement ‘Returning money in private hands’ does not result in more startup investment, it’s not in the culture to do this. The money will be put into real estate, bonds, or whatever. Look at London - it has as much wealth as NewYork or LA but all the money just piles up in real estate or Fintech. But outside those niches? Good luck getting a farm-tech startup funded, no-one will take a punt. So it falls to the government to try and kickstart something. As flawed as it may be. Then they put together a competition for funding that basically feels like a school exam
- loxodrome 1y ago
  Bullshit. All the big VC firms in the USA are funded by private investors (rich people). They fund risky tech startups because big, fast gains are possible and the marginal capital gains tax rate is 20%. In the UK it's 39%! But 24% for residential property, hence the focus on real-estate that you mention. Tax less, and prosperity follows!
  - michaelteter 1y ago
    Prosperity for whom?
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      The HDI of European states is on par with that of the United States [0]. The US has issues, but using American issues as an excuse to ignore European issues (which in reality are a result of soverignity tussles) is ridiculous. [0] - https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks
      - bobxmax 1y ago
        The US is the place to be for ambitious and highly talented people For average/unambitious or unfortunate/poor people, places like Europe or Canada are much better standard of living
owenversteeg 1y ago
Funny enough, I don't actually think the money is quite the problem that people think it is. Look at the early days of YC. Single digit millions a year was enough to stimulate the growth of a whole ecosystem of startups! Some startups are inherently capital-intensive but most don't need that much money to get to the point of basic viability. There are plenty of private individuals in Europe who could support a $10M a year incubator by themselves, not to mention the many institutions that could do this. And yet... there is no European YC and there never was. I think it's cultural. Go talk to the top students at the top universities in the US and Europe and you will notice plenty of talent on both sides of the Atlantic - yet far different levels of ambition. Now run an experiment; pay ten of those students a hundred EUR/USD to tell everyone that they're dropping out and starting a startup. Watch the parents' reaction. Watch the professors' reaction. Watch the reaction from their doctor, their baker, their crush, their garbageman. You already know the result, of course, it's obvious. That's your problem; and by comparison, the money hardly matters.
- bobxmax 1y ago
  The "pioneer spirit" is so core to the American identity and hard to replicate in Europe Americans just have a borderline delusional self-belief that other cultures really have a hard time matching The Gulf Arabs are another group with a similar mentality but they don't have the population, freedom or education (yet) to do the same things
  - mikrl 1y ago
    >The "pioneer spirit" is so core to the American identity and hard to replicate in Europe Consider that the European frontier is either - west: Americas (already done) - south: Africa (not gonna happen again) - north/east: drang nach osten (again, not to be repeated) - up / down? Perhaps Europe needs to focus on space and mining tech? Russia has a frontier, and they are pretty strong in engineering, but I doubt that a SV style ecosystem is likely to form, given the… ahem… unique cultural aspects. All said, I disagree that a frontier experience is necessary: the UK, Germany and Austria-Hungary were massive industrial modernizers while the US was still going through its westward colonization. Is tech an exceptional field, or just the current SotA in industrial development?
Mofpofjis 1y ago
> The public money is inevitably passed through [...] public sector bureaucrats I'd phrase it a bit differently -- local (country) regulations, taxes and fees stifle startups in the crib.

greenavocado 1y ago

[flagged]

loxodrome 1y ago
Amen, I should frame this on my wall.
pembrook 1y ago
Your description of the European intellectual climate is admittedly accurate if somewhat hyperbolic. But I think your analysis of the root causes is lacking. European humans aren't different organisms than non-european humans. Culture does not form in a vacuum. It comes from base properties of the geography and experiences of humans in the region. In my opinion, it's primarily down to 3 things: 1) Population density: Europe has 3X the population density (and subsequent urbanization) as the US. Urbanization leads to more collectivist attitudes. If you compare European attitudes to those in a high density American location like New York City, you'll be amazed how similar (in everything from religiosity to socialist economic leaning to political philosophy). It's the higher proportion of low population density areas of the US that lead to major differences in political philosophy. 2) Experience of downside risk: European risk aversion is quite easily explained by the fact they have experienced the most extreme version of downside risk imaginable in recent memory (WWII). The worst thing the US knows is a depression. Not total annihilation, fire bombing and markets going to 0. 3) Ethnocentrism: Europe's nationalist ethno-states are far less culturally diverse than the broader US. This leads to a higher capacity of empathy for strangers (because people in a mono-culture are more similar to you, you empathize with them more easily). Ironically though, this empathy is what leads to a higher percentage of GDP being driven by centralized government spending (50% in Europe vs. 30-35ish% in USA). The market is less empathetic, but ultimately more efficient and grows the overall pie faster...even accounting for the additional increase in inequality. Growth compounds exponentially, so this gets more dramatic over time. People in podunk US Midwest States now have a higher disposable income per capita (on both mean and median measures) than people in London, a place you would traditionally think of as among the richest in the world. But again, the US didn't get here because 'culture.' It got here due to design decisions made hundreds of years earlier. Being a multicultural society reveals base human racist leanings, which results in more individualist governance, which leads to a greater embrace of markets and private capital, which leads to faster growth.
- greenavocado 1y ago
  Coudenhove-Kalergi writes about this dichotomy you mention between urban man and rural man right at the beginning of the book "Practical Idealism." I think you will find it highly relevant. https://archive.org/details/practical-idealism-english-ver-1-2 https://archive.org/details/practical-idealism-english-ver-1...
  - pembrook 1y ago
    Great find, thank you for this!
- mcv 1y ago
  I'm not so sure your first point is correct. Would you consider the Nordic countries to be collectivist? Because they are among the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, more sparsely than the US, but they are the countries with the best government services. Also, Canada is more sparsely populated the US.
  - pembrook 1y ago
    The north is different due to the weather. I mean, sure, Canadian tundra and the Nordic Arctic and Sub-Arctic is technically land, but I'm not sure you're getting a good comparison of population density by including it in calculations. That would be like calculating the oceans around the US in population density numbers since people live on boats technically. Nordic countries have small populations due to the limitation of arable land to support humans at all. The US has no such limitation and could support vastly more population.
- opo 1y ago
  You bring up some interesting ideas, though I wonder about this: >Europe has 3X the population density (and subsequent urbanization) as the US. Are you sure about that? >...The population density in Europe is 34 per Km² (87 people per mi²). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula... >...The population density in the United States is 38 per Km² (98 people per mi²). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population...
ClumsyPilot 1y ago
> anti-capitalist activists using iPhones, riding in Ubers, and ordering Amazon deliveries… > every single job, iPhone, and modern convenience they enjoy exists because someone, somewhere, took a risk to make a profit. Amazingly capitalists use things invented by socialists, like satellites, or the LED. Or things invested by Nazis and Monarchists. Their favourite iPhone is made by communists, with minerals mined by .. well I am not sure what you call em but they are not capitalists Every day Capitalists use public sanitation, running water, Education, GPS, police and prosecution but they imagine they could exist in a mad max world instead of dying of cholera
- alephnerd 1y ago
  > Their favourite iPhone is made by communists China has been a capitalist state since the 70s with a turn to State Capitalism in the 2010s. Furthermore, China's leadership remains anti-Welfarism, with Xi himself making speeches against expanding the already weak social safety net. > Every day Capitalists use public sanitation, running water, Education, GPS, police and prosecution but they imagine they could exist in a mad max world instead of dying of cholera Capitalism doesn't preclude public infrastructure. That's just a facile argument. > the LED The modern LED was developed by Texas Instruments and Bell Labs in the 1950s. > like satellites Both the US and the USSR knew about how to launch satellites in space by the mid-1950s. It was the USSR that chose to prioritize it, and the US that chose to deprioritize it.
  - ClumsyPilot 1y ago
    > Capitalism doesn't preclude public infrastructure. That's just a facile argument I am measuring by the same yardstick as the OP. If taxes to pay for public services are good capitalism, then you can’t call Europe socialist. > The modern LED was developed by… Whatever, take Hyperbaric welding. Will a western oil company refuse to use it because it was invented in USSR? The fundamental accusation of the OP is totally hypocritical.
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      > I am measuring by the same yardstick as the OP. Fair enough! Didn't see their argument. Yea that was dumb.
dr_dshiv 1y ago
“They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. The entire continent has Stockholm Syndrome from decades of leftist academics preaching that profit = exploitation, as if every entrepreneur is some 19th-century robber baron twirling a mustache” So true!! As a university professor, this nails it. It’s sad — Amsterdam, for instance, used to have such a strong culture of business. But that vitality has greatly diminished.
sally_glance 1y ago
Your prior is objectively false, because Europe has the Stripe and Spotify founders (both of which became billionaires during the last 15 years or so).
- Aloisius 1y ago
  Em. Stripe was founded in Palo Alto. The founders had to move to the California because they couldn't get funding for an earlier startup in Ireland. Spotify though, is Europe's own.
- screye 1y ago
  Stripe founder (Patrick) spends half his time on Twitter complaining about the entrepreneurial blockers in Europe. Clearly, he considers Stripe to be an American phenomenon.
BlueTemplar 1y ago
Have you ever even opened that journal ? This sounds plausible on the surface, but by putting them all in the same basket you show that you have no idea what you are talking about : it's a bit like blaming wokists for their voting for Trump because wokists are from the USA and Trump was elected in the USA...
fakedang 1y ago
> In America, a 20-year-old can drop out of college, code an app in his dorm, and become a billionaire. Pedantic but counterpoint, Markus Villig.
TFYS 1y ago
Come on, the U.S is devolving into a fascist dictatorship as we speak, mostly due to capitalism and the worship of wealth. And for as long as capitalism remains, it will only get worse and worse, because capitalism is deeply flawed in that it has exponential power concentration built it. Monopolies form and rent seeking wealth siphons the wealth from the working people to the top. Breaking large companies would help, but it's like fighting a fire with buckets of water, eventually concentrating capital corrupts the regulators and this happens. If you can't see the connection between what's happening and capitalism, you really should think about it more objectively. People are also happier in most European countries than they are in the US, because the constant competition for wealth and using wealth as the measure of what everyone is worth is not good for mental health and does not lead to a peaceful society, but one where people are set against each other. Europe has problems, but fixing them with capitalism is not going to lead to better lives for most people.
coolvision 1y ago
This is very misleading, just look at the data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_compan... Yes, it's different for different countries, and some EU countries are less startup friently. But countries like Norway or Estonia have ~1 unicorn per 1M people, just 50% of US (~2)
Snow_Falls 1y ago
Incredible to see such blind fanaticism here on HN. The sheer ingnorant, anti-europeanism here is incredible. Europe socialist? Hates capitalism? The home of thacher, austerity, the EU is socialist? I just don't even know what media one consumes to get this kind of world view. Is this how american's justify selling their country to the highest bidder? "at least we're not eating toilet paper like the europeans". You know, some of the richest people in the world...
high_na_euv 1y ago
>Europeans don't just dislike capitalism. They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. The entire continent has Stockholm Syndrome from decades of leftist academics preaching that profit = exploitation, as if every entrepreneur is some 19th-century robber baron twirling a mustache. Who told you that?
mbs159 1y ago
Europeans don't just dislike capitalism. They've been indoctrinated into thinking that if a business makes money, it must be cheating. Those are some big assumptions about 750 million people. Would love to see the data on this. > In America, a 20-year-old can drop out of college, code an app in his dorm, and become a billionaire. In Europe? Good luck. Assuming that's the case with you, right? And if not, then why not if it's so simple? Everybody knows that these cases are extremely rare, but they do happen both in the US and in the EU. > The ultimate proof that Europe's system is broken? Its smartest people leave. Engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, they all flee to the U.S., Switzerland, or Singapore, where they're allowed to keep what they earn. Again, would love to see the data on this. Based on my own personal anecdata, one of the reasons why IT engineers don't move to the US despite being offered to do so is because they enjoy the other benefits of living in the EU, like high-speed rail, free health-care, free higher education, being car independent, childcare benefits and having more days off.

whatshisface 1y ago

Instead of giving it all to a few people to spend buying real estate and mineral rights, you could tell the funding agencies that they're allowed to take risks, or give it to people's retirement accounts and let companies seek public investment.

jampekka 1y ago

Looking at what the billionaires are doing in US politics, perhaps there's something to this.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

somethingsome 1y ago

Honestly, in academia you have good hands too, just not every lab. As in business, you also have not so good businesses. Giving it to academia can 10x the result, but yes research is risky, that's why it's important it is founded externally. Companies that profited from research in academia are very happy. Overall I agree, the current European strategy is not optimal, for both Industry and academia.

ClumsyPilot 1y ago

> The money should be returned to private hands where it belongs and those individuals should be the ones to decide how to invest their own capital This is not a meaningful statement ‘Returning money in private hands’ does not result in more startup investment, it’s not in the culture to do this. The money will be put into real estate, bonds, or whatever. Look at London - it has as much wealth as NewYork or LA but all the money just piles up in real estate or Fintech. But outside those niches? Good luck getting a farm-tech startup funded, no-one will take a punt. So it falls to the government to try and kickstart something. As flawed as it may be. Then they put together a competition for funding that basically feels like a school exam

loxodrome 1y ago
Bullshit. All the big VC firms in the USA are funded by private investors (rich people). They fund risky tech startups because big, fast gains are possible and the marginal capital gains tax rate is 20%. In the UK it's 39%! But 24% for residential property, hence the focus on real-estate that you mention. Tax less, and prosperity follows!
- michaelteter 1y ago
  Prosperity for whom?
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    The HDI of European states is on par with that of the United States [0]. The US has issues, but using American issues as an excuse to ignore European issues (which in reality are a result of soverignity tussles) is ridiculous. [0] - https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks
    - bobxmax 1y ago
      The US is the place to be for ambitious and highly talented people For average/unambitious or unfortunate/poor people, places like Europe or Canada are much better standard of living

owenversteeg 1y ago

Funny enough, I don't actually think the money is quite the problem that people think it is. Look at the early days of YC. Single digit millions a year was enough to stimulate the growth of a whole ecosystem of startups! Some startups are inherently capital-intensive but most don't need that much money to get to the point of basic viability. There are plenty of private individuals in Europe who could support a $10M a year incubator by themselves, not to mention the many institutions that could do this. And yet... there is no European YC and there never was. I think it's cultural. Go talk to the top students at the top universities in the US and Europe and you will notice plenty of talent on both sides of the Atlantic - yet far different levels of ambition. Now run an experiment; pay ten of those students a hundred EUR/USD to tell everyone that they're dropping out and starting a startup. Watch the parents' reaction. Watch the professors' reaction. Watch the reaction from their doctor, their baker, their crush, their garbageman. You already know the result, of course, it's obvious. That's your problem; and by comparison, the money hardly matters.

bobxmax 1y ago
The "pioneer spirit" is so core to the American identity and hard to replicate in Europe Americans just have a borderline delusional self-belief that other cultures really have a hard time matching The Gulf Arabs are another group with a similar mentality but they don't have the population, freedom or education (yet) to do the same things
- mikrl 1y ago
  >The "pioneer spirit" is so core to the American identity and hard to replicate in Europe Consider that the European frontier is either - west: Americas (already done) - south: Africa (not gonna happen again) - north/east: drang nach osten (again, not to be repeated) - up / down? Perhaps Europe needs to focus on space and mining tech? Russia has a frontier, and they are pretty strong in engineering, but I doubt that a SV style ecosystem is likely to form, given the… ahem… unique cultural aspects. All said, I disagree that a frontier experience is necessary: the UK, Germany and Austria-Hungary were massive industrial modernizers while the US was still going through its westward colonization. Is tech an exceptional field, or just the current SotA in industrial development?

Mofpofjis 1y ago

> The public money is inevitably passed through [...] public sector bureaucrats I'd phrase it a bit differently -- local (country) regulations, taxes and fees stifle startups in the crib.