7 ms·

Great news. It is beyond me how people are complaining about the free version not allowing to turn off telemetry. Why don't you stick to the paid version if you

Great news. It is beyond me how people are complaining about the free version not allowing to turn off telemetry. Why don't you stick to the paid version if you are bothered by the (anonymous) telemetry?

badsectoracula 1y ago
Because these two are completely separate things.
- pasoevi 1y ago
  How?
  - badsectoracula 1y ago
    See my reply to the other comment you made[0] where you basically say the same thing. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43915600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43915600
matheusmoreira 1y ago
[flagged]
- pasoevi 1y ago
  You aren't a product? Then pay for the products you use instead of asking to get it for free. If they don't give you the option to turn telemetry off in the paid product, then go ahead and complain. But pay for what you get.
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    ? No one asked them to release their software for free. They did it of their own accord. They don't get to subtly mine value out of their users just because they released free stuff. That's nonsense. We're not obligated to be guinea pigs in their usability experiments.
    - Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
      I don't know why this is so hard for you. If you don't want to give them your data, don't use their software. Nobody is forcing you to use their software and give them your data. It's a simple deal. Either pay using money, or pay using your data. If you don't want to pay with either, you don't get to use their software.
      - matheusmoreira 1y ago
        > you don't get to I get to do all sorts of things. For example, I get to completely firewall their software off of my network. That "take it or leave it" nonsense simply doesn't work on my computer. Data is not a valid currency by which payments are made. Period.
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      > We're not obligated to be guinea pigs in their usability experiments Correct. No obligation to download and use the free version.
      - matheusmoreira 1y ago
        No one's obligated even if they download and use free stuff.
- ymolodtsov 1y ago
  I can almost guarantee you are not able to provide a single example where this or any other company hurt you by "using your data" You're acting like if them knowing what features you use amounts to Stazi looking over your private life.
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    You're acting like they're gonna go out of business if they can't get their little statistics. Come on now. There is absolutely no need for me to "prove" anything to anyone. No need whatsoever. It is my computer, and I have decided. It's as simple as that. Why? Because I don't want it to happen. That's all there is to it. Couldn't care less what their motivations are. Couldn't care less how "justified" they are. I simply do not want data of any kind to be compiled and exfiltrated to anyone for any reason whatsoever, unless I explicitly command my computer to it.
    - wiseowise 1y ago
      They literally give you an option to opt out.
      - matheusmoreira 1y ago
        > It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. We use this information to improve our products.
        Aurornis 1y ago
        It’s a free product. You can either buy it or not use the free version if any of this is unacceptable to you.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  They have a shortcut for this, actually. CMD + Q.
ndriscoll 1y ago
Same reason responsible technologists warned less-informed users about installing BonziBuddy. It was a free product that told jokes or whatever just as it said it would. It was also spyware. Responsible technologists should raise the alarm on spyware products because they are harmful toward their users. Malware is often given away for "free" (sometimes even sent to you without you asking!), so it doesn't really make sense to say "well that's the deal". Somehow people seem to be forgetting this over the years (I suspect because a lot more technologists make money from participating in the surveillance/malware economy these days, and it's gotten so bad that some of them have started to think malware distribution and exfiltrating (and often selling) user data is not a thoroughly black-hat activity). If you're okay with adware or spyware or crypto miners or botnet proxies or whatever else running on your computer as a form of "payment", great. You consider that a reasonable "transaction". Other people appreciate being warned about such behavior. In any case, one shouldn't consider the product to be "free" as advertised.
- missinglugnut 1y ago
  Having a checkbox that says "opt out of usage statistics" doesn't protect anyone against malware. Downloading from trusted counterparties does.
  - ndriscoll 1y ago
    Gathering user consent is what makes the difference between malware and not. If you click "Yes, upload this crash report" or "Yes, upload stats on what buttons I click", that's the program acting according to your wishes. If the program gathers and transmits that data without you asking or reviewing it and against your wishes, that's malware (i.e. malicious software that causes the computer to undermine its owner). Basically, does the computer obey the owner or not?

badsectoracula 1y ago

Because these two are completely separate things.

pasoevi 1y ago
How?
- badsectoracula 1y ago
  See my reply to the other comment you made[0] where you basically say the same thing. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43915600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43915600

matheusmoreira 1y ago

[flagged]

pasoevi 1y ago
You aren't a product? Then pay for the products you use instead of asking to get it for free. If they don't give you the option to turn telemetry off in the paid product, then go ahead and complain. But pay for what you get.
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  ? No one asked them to release their software for free. They did it of their own accord. They don't get to subtly mine value out of their users just because they released free stuff. That's nonsense. We're not obligated to be guinea pigs in their usability experiments.
  - Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
    I don't know why this is so hard for you. If you don't want to give them your data, don't use their software. Nobody is forcing you to use their software and give them your data. It's a simple deal. Either pay using money, or pay using your data. If you don't want to pay with either, you don't get to use their software.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      > you don't get to I get to do all sorts of things. For example, I get to completely firewall their software off of my network. That "take it or leave it" nonsense simply doesn't work on my computer. Data is not a valid currency by which payments are made. Period.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > We're not obligated to be guinea pigs in their usability experiments Correct. No obligation to download and use the free version.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      No one's obligated even if they download and use free stuff.
ymolodtsov 1y ago
I can almost guarantee you are not able to provide a single example where this or any other company hurt you by "using your data" You're acting like if them knowing what features you use amounts to Stazi looking over your private life.
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  You're acting like they're gonna go out of business if they can't get their little statistics. Come on now. There is absolutely no need for me to "prove" anything to anyone. No need whatsoever. It is my computer, and I have decided. It's as simple as that. Why? Because I don't want it to happen. That's all there is to it. Couldn't care less what their motivations are. Couldn't care less how "justified" they are. I simply do not want data of any kind to be compiled and exfiltrated to anyone for any reason whatsoever, unless I explicitly command my computer to it.
  - wiseowise 1y ago
    They literally give you an option to opt out.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      > It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. We use this information to improve our products.
      - Aurornis 1y ago
        It’s a free product. You can either buy it or not use the free version if any of this is unacceptable to you.
wiseowise 1y ago
They have a shortcut for this, actually. CMD + Q.

ndriscoll 1y ago

Same reason responsible technologists warned less-informed users about installing BonziBuddy. It was a free product that told jokes or whatever just as it said it would. It was also spyware. Responsible technologists should raise the alarm on spyware products because they are harmful toward their users. Malware is often given away for "free" (sometimes even sent to you without you asking!), so it doesn't really make sense to say "well that's the deal". Somehow people seem to be forgetting this over the years (I suspect because a lot more technologists make money from participating in the surveillance/malware economy these days, and it's gotten so bad that some of them have started to think malware distribution and exfiltrating (and often selling) user data is not a thoroughly black-hat activity). If you're okay with adware or spyware or crypto miners or botnet proxies or whatever else running on your computer as a form of "payment", great. You consider that a reasonable "transaction". Other people appreciate being warned about such behavior. In any case, one shouldn't consider the product to be "free" as advertised.

missinglugnut 1y ago
Having a checkbox that says "opt out of usage statistics" doesn't protect anyone against malware. Downloading from trusted counterparties does.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  Gathering user consent is what makes the difference between malware and not. If you click "Yes, upload this crash report" or "Yes, upload stats on what buttons I click", that's the program acting according to your wishes. If the program gathers and transmits that data without you asking or reviewing it and against your wishes, that's malware (i.e. malicious software that causes the computer to undermine its owner). Basically, does the computer obey the owner or not?