6 ms·

Tying this to APOE, specifically e4 which has an increased requirement for choline and when choline levels are low there can be a metabolic push that leads to e

Tying this to APOE, specifically e4 which has an increased requirement for choline and when choline levels are low there can be a metabolic push that leads to elevated PHGDH activity and consequently, increased serine synthesis. That is a neat connection and maybe why when we study choline supplements we see positive results. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916524008694 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000291652...

pedalpete 1y ago
That is super interesting, as is the relationship between choline and sleep. With restorative sleep function, and specifically slow-wave activity, considered to be a significant driver of AD. https://www.jarlife.net/3844-choline-sleep-disturbances-and-alzheimers-disease.html https://www.jarlife.net/3844-choline-sleep-disturbances-and-...
- mobilejdral 1y ago
  And then this ties to estrogen, HRT is known to reduce the risk of dementia/AD (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480684/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480684/). PEMT (phosphatidylethanolamine N-methyltransferase) is what makes choline in the body, but it depends on estrogen.(https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3020773/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3020773/)
  - pedalpete 1y ago
    Yeah, part of my work is in dementia with slow-wave sleep enhancement, and we're putting together a menopause study hopefully to start in 2026.
j45 1y ago
wow, thanks for sharing.
xlbuttplug2 1y ago
> In conclusion, our findings suggest that moderate dietary choline intake, ranging from 332.89 mg/d to 353.93 mg/d, is associated with lower odds of dementia and better cognitive performance. Gemini tells me that amounts to ~850mg of alpha GPC or ~1900mg of citicoline. Eggs it is then.
- criddell 1y ago
  How are you going to check Gemini’s math on that? Claude tells me that’s 4-5 eggs per day or 5x150 mg alpha gpc capsules. The eggs would be a lot more expensive in both time and materials plus most egg farms seem cruel (especially male chick killing)… I’m leaning towards alpha gpc supplements.
  - xlbuttplug2 1y ago
    > How are you going to check Gemini’s math on that? Gemini used 40% choline by weight for alpha GPC and 18% for citicoline, which seems to check out with other sources. > I’m leaning towards alpha gpc supplements. I haven't looked into the studies recently, but there have been some negative findings with alpha GPC supplementation[1]. May be worth a gander. [1] https://examine.com/supplements/alpha-gpc/#what-are-alpha-gpcs-main-drawbacks https://examine.com/supplements/alpha-gpc/#what-are-alpha-gp...
    - criddell 1y ago
      Eggs are safe as long as you limit yourself to one medium egg per day. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38733921/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38733921/ Does a 100% safe and effective source of choline exist? Maybe a combination of eggs and supplements are the way to go?
      - xlbuttplug2 1y ago
        This stuff goes over my head, but perhaps one can take something to lower TMAO (I see EVOO, allicin, resveratrol, PQQ from a cursory search) to offset choline supplementation. This is assuming TMAO is the cause of increased disease risk and not just a biomarker.

pedalpete 1y ago

That is super interesting, as is the relationship between choline and sleep. With restorative sleep function, and specifically slow-wave activity, considered to be a significant driver of AD. https://www.jarlife.net/3844-choline-sleep-disturbances-and-alzheimers-disease.html https://www.jarlife.net/3844-choline-sleep-disturbances-and-...

mobilejdral 1y ago
And then this ties to estrogen, HRT is known to reduce the risk of dementia/AD (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480684/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480684/). PEMT (phosphatidylethanolamine N-methyltransferase) is what makes choline in the body, but it depends on estrogen.(https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3020773/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3020773/)
- pedalpete 1y ago
  Yeah, part of my work is in dementia with slow-wave sleep enhancement, and we're putting together a menopause study hopefully to start in 2026.

j45 1y ago

wow, thanks for sharing.

xlbuttplug2 1y ago

> In conclusion, our findings suggest that moderate dietary choline intake, ranging from 332.89 mg/d to 353.93 mg/d, is associated with lower odds of dementia and better cognitive performance. Gemini tells me that amounts to ~850mg of alpha GPC or ~1900mg of citicoline. Eggs it is then.

criddell 1y ago
How are you going to check Gemini’s math on that? Claude tells me that’s 4-5 eggs per day or 5x150 mg alpha gpc capsules. The eggs would be a lot more expensive in both time and materials plus most egg farms seem cruel (especially male chick killing)… I’m leaning towards alpha gpc supplements.
- xlbuttplug2 1y ago
  > How are you going to check Gemini’s math on that? Gemini used 40% choline by weight for alpha GPC and 18% for citicoline, which seems to check out with other sources. > I’m leaning towards alpha gpc supplements. I haven't looked into the studies recently, but there have been some negative findings with alpha GPC supplementation[1]. May be worth a gander. [1] https://examine.com/supplements/alpha-gpc/#what-are-alpha-gpcs-main-drawbacks https://examine.com/supplements/alpha-gpc/#what-are-alpha-gp...
  - criddell 1y ago
    Eggs are safe as long as you limit yourself to one medium egg per day. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38733921/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38733921/ Does a 100% safe and effective source of choline exist? Maybe a combination of eggs and supplements are the way to go?
    - xlbuttplug2 1y ago
      This stuff goes over my head, but perhaps one can take something to lower TMAO (I see EVOO, allicin, resveratrol, PQQ from a cursory search) to offset choline supplementation. This is assuming TMAO is the cause of increased disease risk and not just a biomarker.