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The article states that T-Online, a German news outlet, polled 100,000 readers, with 94% rejecting Tesla and only 3% considering a purchase. While the sample si

The article states that T-Online, a German news outlet, polled 100,000 readers, with 94% rejecting Tesla and only 3% considering a purchase. While the sample size is unusually large for a survey, the methodology isn’t detailed in the article. Online reader polls, like those often conducted by news sites, are typically self-selecting—participants choose to respond rather than being randomly sampled. This introduces significant bias, as those motivated to participate may already hold strong opinions, especially given Musk’s polarizing public image. Without information on how the survey was conducted (e.g., random sampling, controls for bias), its scientific validity is questionable.

simion314 2y ago
Sales number are not good in germany either, but I know Elon fans have an excuse for this too. Anyway is clear that even if this numbers are not correct Tesla's image is fcked, now buying a Tesla is giving money to a nazi and an enemy (on top of the other Elon's "qualities")
- rendall 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning
  - t1E9mE7JTRjf 2y ago
    sadly it's becoming reddit here, subjectivity indistinguishable from objectivity
    - rendall 2y ago
      My very mild question got flagged.
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        Because it wasn't an honest question. You have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. You have access to the same video (note video) of the salutes (note plural), access to the same news stories about Musk's support for far-right causes and organizations, and access to the same tweets in which Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism. Obviously you disagree, but instead of saying as much, ideally using the same data sources to refute your opponents' arguments, you engaged in low-effort sealioning. Hence the flag.
        rendall 2y ago
        The guidelines are to assume good faith. My comments are wide open for you to peruse: nowhere and never have I "sea lioned" or been dishonest. "Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism." I apparently do not have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. Has he ever casually thrown around terms like “Lügenpresse” when talking about the media or described certain ideas or people as “degenerate” in a way that feels a little too historical? Has he talked about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggested that history might have been unfairly written by the victors? Maybe he hasn’t outright denied the Holocaust, but he’s hinted that the numbers seem questionable or that there’s more to the story than what’s commonly taught. Has he praised the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talked about how it was more “orderly” than today’s chaotic world, or suggested that political correctness has made it impossible to discuss certain “truths” about who really holds power? When race comes up, does he lean into the idea that societies just work better when people “stick to their own kind”? Does he complain about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds eerily familiar, but insists it’s just about economics? And if you challenge him, does he actually reject any of this, or does he just get defensive, insisting the real issue is people being too quick to throw around words like "Nazi"? Because, if so, then yes, he's a Nazi. Has he done this? If not, maybe we should reserve the term for people who do.
- mk89 2y ago
  Sales numbers are not good, ok, but a fact is: ID.7 is until now (2025) the most sold e-car. Just in front of ID.4 and ID.5. https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ Even if you don't understand German there is graph showing how many Tesla cars were bought/registered in Feb 2025.
  - simion314 2y ago
    I know in EU Tesla sales are down compared to previous year while EV sales are up. We do not know for sure how much of this is Elon's comments and support of fascists and how much is other cars getting better, but if we wait more data will be available.
    - mk89 2y ago
      I think it's both. There is also a sense of "buy german cars because people are getting fired and losing jobs" etc. (=buy local) Very difficult to measure, but I wouldn't minimize it.
  - milch 2y ago
    Interestingly the Tesla Model Y seems to have dropped very quickly, you can also find the year-end report for 2024 here where Model Y was number 1: https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ If you look at the data for 2023 you can also see that Tesla sold about the same number of any of their model as VW did for the ID series (both ~60k). That seems to have stayed flat for VW in 2024 according to the table from ADAC, but Tesla overall sales dropped significantly to ~30k. If you extrapolate the February numbers they are on track to halve sales again this year, while VW is on track to sell 30k more cars than they did last year (I know extrapolation is not going to be super accurate here)
mytailorisrich 2y ago
The whole article is a bad political piece against Musk, with blatant falsehoods, masquerading as industry news.
- CaffeineLD50 2y ago
  Yet, so much news is like this. The so called objectivity of news may be the exception to the rule.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
blueflow 2y ago
T-Online is generally not representative.
tim333 2y ago
Yeah, if you just phone random people they'll probably say Tesla is bad. It's different to a while later when the news has faded and they are actually buying a car and comparing options.
- scarab92 2y ago
  It's also misleading to frame responses of "aren't considering buying a Tesla" as "won't buy a Tesla", because most of those respondents aren't considering buying any vehicle at all.
  - sshine 2y ago
    "I'm not buying a car! And I'm especially not buying a Tesla!"
y42 2y ago
The article does not claim scientific standards, and in reality, it is probably not exactly 94%. However, it is likely a very significant amount. Considering that Germany has never been the easiest market for Tesla, there are many reasons for this trend. Germans like their local manufacturers. It is probably not surprising—and not far from reality—that the majority of people would not consider buying a Tesla at this time.
- Abimelex 2y ago
  trust me, this is absolutely NOT about liking local manufacturers ...
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
  Well, besides all other concerns regarding Tesla or electric cars in general, Germany has really HIGH prices for electricity. That may be included with the purchase, depending on the time and/or model, but then you are dependent on the supercharger network of theirs, which hasn't really convenient coverage. Or you're doing it on your own at home with solar, heat-pump, wallcharger, whatever. Which isn't an option for many, because Germany also is a nation of RENTERS, meaning not owning a house, and thus being dependent on the whims of landlords. Which aren't that enthusiastic about investments in general. Complications, complications... Now imagine living there in some large city which has everything, maybe even owning your condo, but not the whole building. No solar, no wallchargers, and even if, they'd charge insane prices for the charging :) So search for superchargers it is. Such luck, there's a shopping mall even in walking distance with a few superchargers. Phew! Accessible only through the parking space. Which is gated by turnpikes. Which close at 8PM and open at 8 or 9AM (because being german)... Forget sundays... Actually I don't even own a car in .de and only know of this because some danish tourists asked me about superchargers for their Tesla on my way home from that shopping mall. And couldn't believe it, neither could I. They'd needed to cross the whole town to near the airport, while their Tesla was very low on charge, which they wasted even more so because of circling around trying to find access past the gates... Now this happened in Germanys second largest town, and still is the case. Imagine how this is elsewhere, less dense, but where that rentage thing still applies for many... Living in the US it still doesn't make sense to me, maybe because somewhere way out there at 2600m altitude near some resort town in the rockies. I don't really care about the money for solar installation there, but it's impractical because of winds, and snow. I see this as a phenomenon of the zeitgeist, enjoying gamified crap and virtue signaling, while the infrastructure isn't really there ATM. So gas it is. Not necessarily guzzling. Just more convenient and practical.

simion314 2y ago

Sales number are not good in germany either, but I know Elon fans have an excuse for this too. Anyway is clear that even if this numbers are not correct Tesla's image is fcked, now buying a Tesla is giving money to a nazi and an enemy (on top of the other Elon's "qualities")

rendall 2y ago
[flagged]
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning
- t1E9mE7JTRjf 2y ago
  sadly it's becoming reddit here, subjectivity indistinguishable from objectivity
  - rendall 2y ago
    My very mild question got flagged.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Because it wasn't an honest question. You have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. You have access to the same video (note video) of the salutes (note plural), access to the same news stories about Musk's support for far-right causes and organizations, and access to the same tweets in which Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism. Obviously you disagree, but instead of saying as much, ideally using the same data sources to refute your opponents' arguments, you engaged in low-effort sealioning. Hence the flag.
      - rendall 2y ago
        The guidelines are to assume good faith. My comments are wide open for you to peruse: nowhere and never have I "sea lioned" or been dishonest. "Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism." I apparently do not have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. Has he ever casually thrown around terms like “Lügenpresse” when talking about the media or described certain ideas or people as “degenerate” in a way that feels a little too historical? Has he talked about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggested that history might have been unfairly written by the victors? Maybe he hasn’t outright denied the Holocaust, but he’s hinted that the numbers seem questionable or that there’s more to the story than what’s commonly taught. Has he praised the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talked about how it was more “orderly” than today’s chaotic world, or suggested that political correctness has made it impossible to discuss certain “truths” about who really holds power? When race comes up, does he lean into the idea that societies just work better when people “stick to their own kind”? Does he complain about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds eerily familiar, but insists it’s just about economics? And if you challenge him, does he actually reject any of this, or does he just get defensive, insisting the real issue is people being too quick to throw around words like "Nazi"? Because, if so, then yes, he's a Nazi. Has he done this? If not, maybe we should reserve the term for people who do.
mk89 2y ago
Sales numbers are not good, ok, but a fact is: ID.7 is until now (2025) the most sold e-car. Just in front of ID.4 and ID.5. https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ Even if you don't understand German there is graph showing how many Tesla cars were bought/registered in Feb 2025.
- simion314 2y ago
  I know in EU Tesla sales are down compared to previous year while EV sales are up. We do not know for sure how much of this is Elon's comments and support of fascists and how much is other cars getting better, but if we wait more data will be available.
  - mk89 2y ago
    I think it's both. There is also a sense of "buy german cars because people are getting fired and losing jobs" etc. (=buy local) Very difficult to measure, but I wouldn't minimize it.
- milch 2y ago
  Interestingly the Tesla Model Y seems to have dropped very quickly, you can also find the year-end report for 2024 here where Model Y was number 1: https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ If you look at the data for 2023 you can also see that Tesla sold about the same number of any of their model as VW did for the ID series (both ~60k). That seems to have stayed flat for VW in 2024 according to the table from ADAC, but Tesla overall sales dropped significantly to ~30k. If you extrapolate the February numbers they are on track to halve sales again this year, while VW is on track to sell 30k more cars than they did last year (I know extrapolation is not going to be super accurate here)

mytailorisrich 2y ago

The whole article is a bad political piece against Musk, with blatant falsehoods, masquerading as industry news.

CaffeineLD50 2y ago
Yet, so much news is like this. The so called objectivity of news may be the exception to the rule.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

blueflow 2y ago

T-Online is generally not representative.

tim333 2y ago

Yeah, if you just phone random people they'll probably say Tesla is bad. It's different to a while later when the news has faded and they are actually buying a car and comparing options.

scarab92 2y ago
It's also misleading to frame responses of "aren't considering buying a Tesla" as "won't buy a Tesla", because most of those respondents aren't considering buying any vehicle at all.
- sshine 2y ago
  "I'm not buying a car! And I'm especially not buying a Tesla!"

y42 2y ago

The article does not claim scientific standards, and in reality, it is probably not exactly 94%. However, it is likely a very significant amount. Considering that Germany has never been the easiest market for Tesla, there are many reasons for this trend. Germans like their local manufacturers. It is probably not surprising—and not far from reality—that the majority of people would not consider buying a Tesla at this time.

Abimelex 2y ago
trust me, this is absolutely NOT about liking local manufacturers ...
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
Well, besides all other concerns regarding Tesla or electric cars in general, Germany has really HIGH prices for electricity. That may be included with the purchase, depending on the time and/or model, but then you are dependent on the supercharger network of theirs, which hasn't really convenient coverage. Or you're doing it on your own at home with solar, heat-pump, wallcharger, whatever. Which isn't an option for many, because Germany also is a nation of RENTERS, meaning not owning a house, and thus being dependent on the whims of landlords. Which aren't that enthusiastic about investments in general. Complications, complications... Now imagine living there in some large city which has everything, maybe even owning your condo, but not the whole building. No solar, no wallchargers, and even if, they'd charge insane prices for the charging :) So search for superchargers it is. Such luck, there's a shopping mall even in walking distance with a few superchargers. Phew! Accessible only through the parking space. Which is gated by turnpikes. Which close at 8PM and open at 8 or 9AM (because being german)... Forget sundays... Actually I don't even own a car in .de and only know of this because some danish tourists asked me about superchargers for their Tesla on my way home from that shopping mall. And couldn't believe it, neither could I. They'd needed to cross the whole town to near the airport, while their Tesla was very low on charge, which they wasted even more so because of circling around trying to find access past the gates... Now this happened in Germanys second largest town, and still is the case. Imagine how this is elsewhere, less dense, but where that rentage thing still applies for many... Living in the US it still doesn't make sense to me, maybe because somewhere way out there at 2600m altitude near some resort town in the rockies. I don't really care about the money for solar installation there, but it's impractical because of winds, and snow. I see this as a phenomenon of the zeitgeist, enjoying gamified crap and virtue signaling, while the infrastructure isn't really there ATM. So gas it is. Not necessarily guzzling. Just more convenient and practical.