5 ms·

List of DRM-Free Bookshops

310 points by nafnlj 2y ago

EA-3167 2y ago
I think we hugged that one a little hard. I did manage to get in after a bit though, and... it's not quite what I expected? It's a fascinating resource, but it's essentially a vast collection of quite small and niche stores, magazines, webcomics, and so on. If you're expecting "Amazon/Kobo, but without the DRM" then it probably isn't what you're looking for. It is very cool though, it's just that "DRM Free" isn't the best description of this eclectic discovery machine of a page.
kbutler 2y ago
Can scan the archive.today capture: https://archive.ph/zPBbZ https://archive.ph/zPBbZ
LorenDB 2y ago
Now that is a clever domain name.
plorg 2y ago
After the recent press for Bookshop.org I saw an author I like had a new book and thought I'd try out the service - I am okay with paying slightly more for a book if the money is going to someone other than Amazon. But I should have looked twice, because Bookshop ebooks are not DRM free unless the publisher explicitly opts for it, and DRM encumbered books can only be read on their website or in their app. I know that the copyright landscape is rough for that sort of things, but this was a huge miss. For it to cost $5 more and be tied to a service that is not currently available on any dedicated e-readers is frankly insulting. Oh, and so far as I can tell they don't label which books are DRM free.
- gcr 2y ago
  Seconding this. Bookshop.org is a terrible experience if you want to read on your own eInk device. I had to purchase the book I wanted from a different seller at double the cost.
  - lidavidm 2y ago
    At least they appear to be partnering with Kobo "later this year" [1]. I've been a big fan of Kobo's devices so this is a nice plus. (I just wish they could figure out some way to get Kindle exclusives, but well that's a contradiction in terms, so...) [1]: https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks ("Can I read my ebooks on my Kindle, Kobo, Nook, etc.?")
  - dhc02 2y ago
    My approach has been to purchase books from bookshop.org (or directly from the author if that is an option), and then immediately go find a DRM-free backup copy to send to my e-ink device.
- bluebarbet 2y ago
  The desktop web-app reader is interesting in that it's a DRM-free legal way to access otherwise DRM-encumbered e-books. Last I checked the EME DRM browser sandbox was still not required. Personally I'm fine with this compromise solution. I've read whole books in the Kindle desktop web interface. The usual line is that it's somehow bad on the eyes, but I figure that I already spend my days reading documents and articles on a screen and it's irrational to imagine a "book" is somehow fundamentally different.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Is it really drm free if you can't save the books? Maybe there's technically no encryption but it's not like you're free to do with the book as you please either.
  - plorg 2y ago
    There is no EME DRM, but they actually go through some means to prevent the user from downloading the ebooks. That includes anti-devtools mitigations and storing much of the ebook contents encrypted in the cloud.
    - bluebarbet 2y ago
      Yes yes I understand. My point is that I personally find it easy to read text in a desktop web browser, and this is the unique way of consuming rights-encumbered content without needing to install black-box spyware.
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    It doesn't use EME (EME isn't designed to protect text so it couldn't), but it's very likely what it does would be considered to be a "technical protection measure" in most courts and reverse engineering it is probably illegal in most territories.
- 4k93n2 2y ago
  dedicated ereaders are another thing to get away from if possible. onyx boox ereaders for example run android as the OS so you can install whatever apps you like, kindle, nook, bookshop.org or just any basic epub or pdf reader. the main reason i switched was so i could install syncthing and which makes the whole process of getting books onto the ereader as simple as dropping a file into a certain folder on my laptop. no more nonsense like emailing a file to your kindle or having to plug it in to sync with calibre
- internet_points 2y ago
  > Oh, and so far as I can tell they don't label which books are DRM free. Anyone who cares enough to comment about this on hn would do well to comment on it to the people whose paychecks depend on what you think about them: https://uk-support.bookshop.org/en/support/tickets/new https://uk-support.bookshop.org/en/support/tickets/new
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  it's not bookshop.org's fault. blame the publishers
geerlingguy 2y ago
I'm still a fan of LeanPub and try to buy a book there if possible. It's an older site/storefront now, but still active and with new books mainly in the software/tech space. It provides a better return for the authors, has a very simple UI/UX without dark patterns, makes it easy to grab newer book versions, and never has DRM. Not sure if it's listed on the site, as it seems we've hugged it to death.
idunnoman1222 2y ago
Just email the author five dollars and then grab their book from AA
- theK 2y ago
  AA?
  - technothrasher 2y ago
    Anna's Archive
- agnishom 2y ago
  I like this idea. I do it when the author has a Patreon. How do you email random people five dollars?
  - homebrewer 2y ago
    Check if there's a PayPal account tied to that email. Often there is. PayPal is a shit company, but no worse than Patreon.
amazingamazing 2y ago
in my experience no publisher that's producing many hits will make their stuff drm free, and for good reason. looking at the archive (https://archive.ph/zPBbZ https://archive.ph/zPBbZ), almost all of the publishers do not publish popular authors. it's just too easy to share the books. you can get tens of thousands of books for what, a gigabyte? without drm that stuff will spread like wildfire, but drm can easily be broken by those who know what they're doing - but I guess for publishers, luckily the vast majority of the popular wouldn't bother to break it. here's one moderately popular author's take: https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/flowers-and-questions/ https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/flowers-and-questions/
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  Tor is a pretty big counterexample here. They're the largest and most awarded SciFi publisher and have been DRM-free for well over a decade now. They've also said that being DRM free hasn't been a problem for them.
  - badlibrarian 2y ago
    They also refused to make their e-books available to libraries because they said it hurt sales. Which at least is a new wrinkle on the endless DRM debates. Hell, if I ran a publishing company I'd remove DRM just so I wouldn't have to listen to Cory Doctorow rant about it. Having to proofread his books is punishment enough.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      I hadn't heard that they limited availability, only that it was on a 4 month delay after consumer publication. All of the big 5 publishers (including Tor under Macmillan) have incredibly bad terms for digital lending though. Wouldn't be surprised if they were doing the common thing of terminating the backcatalog on top of limiting initial access.
    - Mindwipe 2y ago
      No publisher has done anything other than laugh at Cory for years now.
_benj 2y ago
I hadn’t really paid attention to DMR because I was so cozy inside the kindle bubble. That notification that Amazon was going to take away the ability to download books was a very strong wake up call… When ok buys a book for kindle, it seems that one supposedly doesn’t own the book? One “owns” it at the “goodwill” of Amazon? I put my kindle on eBay today and I think going forward I’ll consider buying physical books and when necessary “finding” the digital versions of it?
- gcr 2y ago
  Quick! Go to your Amazon account’s “Manage Content and Devices” and “Download or transfer over USB” to save the .azw3 files to your computer. Then, follow instructions to set up Calibre with the De-DRM plugin. Do this before next Wednesday and you might save your Kindle books! Old kindles are best for this; save books in the older .azw3 format. I’m not sure about newer Kindles that use .kfx
  - _benj 2y ago
    already did like at 2 AM... a friend of mine also tried to do it but it turns out that “Download or transfer over USB” only works if you own a kindle, which he doesn't... so there's that too
    - dhc02 2y ago
      Definitely do not tell that friend to head to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Library and use one of the URLs listed there to go to that website and find and download a DRM-free backup copy of all the books they have bought and paid for in the past.
      - _benj 2y ago
        I certainly will not
  - robbiep 2y ago
    I left my kindle in a train in Italy last week… am I boned?
jacekm 2y ago
I understand that inspiration for posting this was the Amazon taking away the ability to "Download and transfer over USB". Can anybody tell me if downloading will still work via Kindle for PC? That's how I download my books before removing DRM in Calibre.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Apparently you need an older version of the app and that doesn't allow downloading books published since 2023. So it's not a complete solution
agnishom 2y ago
Wonderful. I also want to say that very often Tor sells DRM free books. As a fantasy buff, I always try to find them
anonzzzies 2y ago
Thank you; the world needs more of that.
southernplaces7 2y ago
Casually worth noting the obvious: There are also services like Libgen and Anna's archive that are completely DRM free and have pretty much anything you can get on Amazon except, well, for free, aside from also being DRM-free.
- Kelvin506 2y ago
  Also worth noting that such sites technically are piracy. I am not making any moral or ethical assertions about it, but people need to know that so they can make an informed decision before doing so. And no, it's not inherently obvious to everyone. Libgen, Anna's Archive, et al do however provide a valuable service in maintaining access to works out of distribution or blocked by censorship.
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    Oh gosh, I had no idea! I'm not an absolutist on piracy in either direction, but when X or Y megacorp and all its affiliates can claim to "sell" you goods and then whimsically restrict access to them in such a way that further, future whimsies let them take away your purchased products, i'd hardly blame anyone for pirating. Also, a company like Meta can pirate over 80 fucking TB of ebook content for indirectly commercial purposes, have its chief lie about being aware of this, and an average person who just wants content without so much bullshit DRM lock-in hassle should feel guilty about their choice?
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      Some people are more concerned about a world so dumb or in such bad faith that can make and tolerate confusion between "questionable possession" and "theft". Which, paradoxically, calls for the need for more and more intellectual practice, which is a key purpose in the access to culture we have valued for millennia. (Similar confusion is in that mentioned idea of Meta having done something wrong in processing texts - we can access all available texts.)
      - 2y ago
weberer 2y ago
The FSF also has their own list https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks
iamacyborg 2y ago
I’m pleasantly surprised to see that Black Library is already on there for fans of terrible Warhammer fiction.
contravariant 2y ago
I make a point to store a DRM free copy from any books I purchase. So far with success. The DeDRM tool for Calibre is very useful for this. Ironically this has allowed me to read books legally that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. DRM is an accessibility nightmare to the point that I think it ought to be considered illegal discrimination.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

310 points by nafnlj 2y ago

I think we hugged that one a little hard. I did manage to get in after a bit though, and... it's not quite what I expected? It's a fascinating resource, but it's essentially a vast collection of quite small and niche stores, magazines, webcomics, and so on. If you're expecting "Amazon/Kobo, but without the DRM" then it probably isn't what you're looking for. It is very cool though, it's just that "DRM Free" isn't the best description of this eclectic discovery machine of a page.

kbutler 2y ago

Can scan the archive.today capture: https://archive.ph/zPBbZ https://archive.ph/zPBbZ

LorenDB 2y ago

Now that is a clever domain name.

plorg 2y ago

After the recent press for Bookshop.org I saw an author I like had a new book and thought I'd try out the service - I am okay with paying slightly more for a book if the money is going to someone other than Amazon. But I should have looked twice, because Bookshop ebooks are not DRM free unless the publisher explicitly opts for it, and DRM encumbered books can only be read on their website or in their app. I know that the copyright landscape is rough for that sort of things, but this was a huge miss. For it to cost $5 more and be tied to a service that is not currently available on any dedicated e-readers is frankly insulting. Oh, and so far as I can tell they don't label which books are DRM free.

gcr 2y ago
Seconding this. Bookshop.org is a terrible experience if you want to read on your own eInk device. I had to purchase the book I wanted from a different seller at double the cost.
- lidavidm 2y ago
  At least they appear to be partnering with Kobo "later this year" [1]. I've been a big fan of Kobo's devices so this is a nice plus. (I just wish they could figure out some way to get Kindle exclusives, but well that's a contradiction in terms, so...) [1]: https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks ("Can I read my ebooks on my Kindle, Kobo, Nook, etc.?")
- dhc02 2y ago
  My approach has been to purchase books from bookshop.org (or directly from the author if that is an option), and then immediately go find a DRM-free backup copy to send to my e-ink device.
bluebarbet 2y ago
The desktop web-app reader is interesting in that it's a DRM-free legal way to access otherwise DRM-encumbered e-books. Last I checked the EME DRM browser sandbox was still not required. Personally I'm fine with this compromise solution. I've read whole books in the Kindle desktop web interface. The usual line is that it's somehow bad on the eyes, but I figure that I already spend my days reading documents and articles on a screen and it's irrational to imagine a "book" is somehow fundamentally different.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Is it really drm free if you can't save the books? Maybe there's technically no encryption but it's not like you're free to do with the book as you please either.
- plorg 2y ago
  There is no EME DRM, but they actually go through some means to prevent the user from downloading the ebooks. That includes anti-devtools mitigations and storing much of the ebook contents encrypted in the cloud.
  - bluebarbet 2y ago
    Yes yes I understand. My point is that I personally find it easy to read text in a desktop web browser, and this is the unique way of consuming rights-encumbered content without needing to install black-box spyware.
- Mindwipe 2y ago
  It doesn't use EME (EME isn't designed to protect text so it couldn't), but it's very likely what it does would be considered to be a "technical protection measure" in most courts and reverse engineering it is probably illegal in most territories.
4k93n2 2y ago
dedicated ereaders are another thing to get away from if possible. onyx boox ereaders for example run android as the OS so you can install whatever apps you like, kindle, nook, bookshop.org or just any basic epub or pdf reader. the main reason i switched was so i could install syncthing and which makes the whole process of getting books onto the ereader as simple as dropping a file into a certain folder on my laptop. no more nonsense like emailing a file to your kindle or having to plug it in to sync with calibre
internet_points 2y ago
> Oh, and so far as I can tell they don't label which books are DRM free. Anyone who cares enough to comment about this on hn would do well to comment on it to the people whose paychecks depend on what you think about them: https://uk-support.bookshop.org/en/support/tickets/new https://uk-support.bookshop.org/en/support/tickets/new
greenie_beans 2y ago
it's not bookshop.org's fault. blame the publishers

geerlingguy 2y ago

I'm still a fan of LeanPub and try to buy a book there if possible. It's an older site/storefront now, but still active and with new books mainly in the software/tech space. It provides a better return for the authors, has a very simple UI/UX without dark patterns, makes it easy to grab newer book versions, and never has DRM. Not sure if it's listed on the site, as it seems we've hugged it to death.

idunnoman1222 2y ago

Just email the author five dollars and then grab their book from AA

theK 2y ago
AA?
- technothrasher 2y ago
  Anna's Archive
agnishom 2y ago
I like this idea. I do it when the author has a Patreon. How do you email random people five dollars?
- homebrewer 2y ago
  Check if there's a PayPal account tied to that email. Often there is. PayPal is a shit company, but no worse than Patreon.

amazingamazing 2y ago

in my experience no publisher that's producing many hits will make their stuff drm free, and for good reason. looking at the archive (https://archive.ph/zPBbZ https://archive.ph/zPBbZ), almost all of the publishers do not publish popular authors. it's just too easy to share the books. you can get tens of thousands of books for what, a gigabyte? without drm that stuff will spread like wildfire, but drm can easily be broken by those who know what they're doing - but I guess for publishers, luckily the vast majority of the popular wouldn't bother to break it. here's one moderately popular author's take: https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/flowers-and-questions/ https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/flowers-and-questions/

AlotOfReading 2y ago
Tor is a pretty big counterexample here. They're the largest and most awarded SciFi publisher and have been DRM-free for well over a decade now. They've also said that being DRM free hasn't been a problem for them.
- badlibrarian 2y ago
  They also refused to make their e-books available to libraries because they said it hurt sales. Which at least is a new wrinkle on the endless DRM debates. Hell, if I ran a publishing company I'd remove DRM just so I wouldn't have to listen to Cory Doctorow rant about it. Having to proofread his books is punishment enough.
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    I hadn't heard that they limited availability, only that it was on a 4 month delay after consumer publication. All of the big 5 publishers (including Tor under Macmillan) have incredibly bad terms for digital lending though. Wouldn't be surprised if they were doing the common thing of terminating the backcatalog on top of limiting initial access.
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    No publisher has done anything other than laugh at Cory for years now.

_benj 2y ago

I hadn’t really paid attention to DMR because I was so cozy inside the kindle bubble. That notification that Amazon was going to take away the ability to download books was a very strong wake up call… When ok buys a book for kindle, it seems that one supposedly doesn’t own the book? One “owns” it at the “goodwill” of Amazon? I put my kindle on eBay today and I think going forward I’ll consider buying physical books and when necessary “finding” the digital versions of it?

gcr 2y ago
Quick! Go to your Amazon account’s “Manage Content and Devices” and “Download or transfer over USB” to save the .azw3 files to your computer. Then, follow instructions to set up Calibre with the De-DRM plugin. Do this before next Wednesday and you might save your Kindle books! Old kindles are best for this; save books in the older .azw3 format. I’m not sure about newer Kindles that use .kfx
- _benj 2y ago
  already did like at 2 AM... a friend of mine also tried to do it but it turns out that “Download or transfer over USB” only works if you own a kindle, which he doesn't... so there's that too
  - dhc02 2y ago
    Definitely do not tell that friend to head to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Library and use one of the URLs listed there to go to that website and find and download a DRM-free backup copy of all the books they have bought and paid for in the past.
    - _benj 2y ago
      I certainly will not
- robbiep 2y ago
  I left my kindle in a train in Italy last week… am I boned?

jacekm 2y ago

I understand that inspiration for posting this was the Amazon taking away the ability to "Download and transfer over USB". Can anybody tell me if downloading will still work via Kindle for PC? That's how I download my books before removing DRM in Calibre.

wkat4242 2y ago
Apparently you need an older version of the app and that doesn't allow downloading books published since 2023. So it's not a complete solution

agnishom 2y ago

Wonderful. I also want to say that very often Tor sells DRM free books. As a fantasy buff, I always try to find them

anonzzzies 2y ago

Thank you; the world needs more of that.

southernplaces7 2y ago

Casually worth noting the obvious: There are also services like Libgen and Anna's archive that are completely DRM free and have pretty much anything you can get on Amazon except, well, for free, aside from also being DRM-free.

Kelvin506 2y ago
Also worth noting that such sites technically are piracy. I am not making any moral or ethical assertions about it, but people need to know that so they can make an informed decision before doing so. And no, it's not inherently obvious to everyone. Libgen, Anna's Archive, et al do however provide a valuable service in maintaining access to works out of distribution or blocked by censorship.
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  Oh gosh, I had no idea! I'm not an absolutist on piracy in either direction, but when X or Y megacorp and all its affiliates can claim to "sell" you goods and then whimsically restrict access to them in such a way that further, future whimsies let them take away your purchased products, i'd hardly blame anyone for pirating. Also, a company like Meta can pirate over 80 fucking TB of ebook content for indirectly commercial purposes, have its chief lie about being aware of this, and an average person who just wants content without so much bullshit DRM lock-in hassle should feel guilty about their choice?
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Some people are more concerned about a world so dumb or in such bad faith that can make and tolerate confusion between "questionable possession" and "theft". Which, paradoxically, calls for the need for more and more intellectual practice, which is a key purpose in the access to culture we have valued for millennia. (Similar confusion is in that mentioned idea of Meta having done something wrong in processing texts - we can access all available texts.)
    - 2y ago

weberer 2y ago

The FSF also has their own list https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks

iamacyborg 2y ago

I’m pleasantly surprised to see that Black Library is already on there for fans of terrible Warhammer fiction.

contravariant 2y ago

I make a point to store a DRM free copy from any books I purchase. So far with success. The DeDRM tool for Calibre is very useful for this. Ironically this has allowed me to read books legally that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. DRM is an accessibility nightmare to the point that I think it ought to be considered illegal discrimination.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]