7 ms·

> don't aspire to be like Altman Aspire to be like Aaron Schwartz.

by SteveGerencser 2y ago

some_furry 2y ago
(Except for the tragic ending, of course.)
- lukan 2y ago
  If more would be like him, there might be a happy ending.
  - some_furry 2y ago
    Agreed.
ibejoeb 2y ago
AaronSw exfiltrated data without authorization. You can argue the morality of that, but I think you could make the argument for OpenAI as well. I'm not opining on either, just pointing out the marked similarity here. edit: It appears I'm wrong. Will someone correct me on what he did?
- gessha 2y ago
  Arguing for the morality of OpenAI is a little bit harder given their history and actions in the last few years.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    One argument would be means to an end, with the end being the initial advancement of AI. Again, I'm not offering an opinion on it.
    - skeeter2020 2y ago
      This is an argument, but isn't this where your scenario diverges completely? OpenAI's "means to an end" is further than you state; not initial advancement but the control and profit from AI.
      - ibejoeb 2y ago
        Yes, they intended for control and profit, but it's looking like they can't keep it under control and ultimately its advancements will be available more broadly. So, the argument goes that despite its intention, OpenAI has been one of the largest drivers of innovation in an emerging technology.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > edit: It appears I'm wrong. Will someone correct me on what he did? He didn't do it without authorization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz > Visitors to MIT's "open campus" were authorized to access JSTOR through its network.
  - richardwhiuk 2y ago
    He wasn't authorised to access the wiring closet. There are many troubling things about the case, but it's fairly clear Aaron knew he was doing something he wasn't authorised to do.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > He wasn't authorised to access the wiring closet. For which MIT can certainly have a) locked the door and b) trespassed him, but that's a very different issue than having authorization to access JSTOR.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    At that same link is an account of the unlawful activity. He was not authorized to access a restricted area, set up a sieve on the network, and collect the contents of JSTOR for outside distribution.
ponector 2y ago
Why should kids aspire to be like Aaron if it is not rewarded in our society? Comparing with such "kings" as Altman or Musk.
- uoaei 2y ago
  Because kids' brains are not as poisoned into believing the most profitable things to do are the most meritorious. Not yet, anyway.
- barnabee 2y ago
  Why should anyone aspire to do what is rewarded over what they believe in and what will satisfy them?
- gessha 2y ago
  Not everything virtuous is rewarded monetarily but we aspire to be virtuous, no?
  - coliveira 2y ago
    Modern society has stopped to aspire of being virtuous a long time ago. Unfortunately, that's nowadays a minority view.
  - robotresearcher 2y ago
    Aaron was not happy. Neither is Trump, or Musk. I don’t know if Bernie is happy, or AOC. Obama seems happy. Hilary doesn’t. Harris seems happy. Striving for good isn’t gonna be fun all the time, but when choosing role models I like to factor in how happy they seem. I’d like to spend some time happy.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      I think it’s fairly crazy that you believe you have an authentic view into the happiness levels of these people.
      - 2y ago
reaperman 2y ago
* Swartz But yes.
oooyay 2y ago
I've read a lot about Aaron's time at Reddit / Not A Bug. I somewhat think his fame exceeds his actual accomplishments at times. He was perceived to be very hostile to his peers and subordinates. Kind of a cliche, but aspire to be the best version yourself every day. Learn from the successes and failures of others, but don't aspire to be anyone else because eventually you'll be very disappointed.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  The gist is, when you find your biggest flaw, work on it, and repeat; you’ve already gone great distance.
- baudehlo 2y ago
  I knew Aaron back in my IRC days. He hung out with us to talk about RDF for a good couple of years. We chatted almost every day. He was lovely. And a genius. Maybe he changed, but he was a truly nice person.
  - oooyay 2y ago
    Yeah, definitely not a statement on Aaron himself. More a statement on idolizing people. There will always be instances where they didn't live up to what people think of them as. I think Aaron was fine and a normal human being.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  That's what happens to martyrs. They become larger than life and history remembers an idealized version of them
ddingus 2y ago
Indeed
_hcuq 2y ago
Don't sell your soul, is all. But survive. This too will pass.

> don't aspire to be like Altman Aspire to be like Aaron Schwartz.

some_furry 2y ago

(Except for the tragic ending, of course.)

lukan 2y ago
If more would be like him, there might be a happy ending.
- some_furry 2y ago
  Agreed.

ibejoeb 2y ago

AaronSw exfiltrated data without authorization. You can argue the morality of that, but I think you could make the argument for OpenAI as well. I'm not opining on either, just pointing out the marked similarity here. edit: It appears I'm wrong. Will someone correct me on what he did?

gessha 2y ago
Arguing for the morality of OpenAI is a little bit harder given their history and actions in the last few years.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  One argument would be means to an end, with the end being the initial advancement of AI. Again, I'm not offering an opinion on it.
  - skeeter2020 2y ago
    This is an argument, but isn't this where your scenario diverges completely? OpenAI's "means to an end" is further than you state; not initial advancement but the control and profit from AI.
    - ibejoeb 2y ago
      Yes, they intended for control and profit, but it's looking like they can't keep it under control and ultimately its advancements will be available more broadly. So, the argument goes that despite its intention, OpenAI has been one of the largest drivers of innovation in an emerging technology.
ceejayoz 2y ago
> edit: It appears I'm wrong. Will someone correct me on what he did? He didn't do it without authorization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz > Visitors to MIT's "open campus" were authorized to access JSTOR through its network.
- richardwhiuk 2y ago
  He wasn't authorised to access the wiring closet. There are many troubling things about the case, but it's fairly clear Aaron knew he was doing something he wasn't authorised to do.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > He wasn't authorised to access the wiring closet. For which MIT can certainly have a) locked the door and b) trespassed him, but that's a very different issue than having authorization to access JSTOR.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  At that same link is an account of the unlawful activity. He was not authorized to access a restricted area, set up a sieve on the network, and collect the contents of JSTOR for outside distribution.

ponector 2y ago

Why should kids aspire to be like Aaron if it is not rewarded in our society? Comparing with such "kings" as Altman or Musk.

uoaei 2y ago
Because kids' brains are not as poisoned into believing the most profitable things to do are the most meritorious. Not yet, anyway.
barnabee 2y ago
Why should anyone aspire to do what is rewarded over what they believe in and what will satisfy them?
gessha 2y ago
Not everything virtuous is rewarded monetarily but we aspire to be virtuous, no?
- coliveira 2y ago
  Modern society has stopped to aspire of being virtuous a long time ago. Unfortunately, that's nowadays a minority view.
- robotresearcher 2y ago
  Aaron was not happy. Neither is Trump, or Musk. I don’t know if Bernie is happy, or AOC. Obama seems happy. Hilary doesn’t. Harris seems happy. Striving for good isn’t gonna be fun all the time, but when choosing role models I like to factor in how happy they seem. I’d like to spend some time happy.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    I think it’s fairly crazy that you believe you have an authentic view into the happiness levels of these people.
    - 2y ago

reaperman 2y ago

* Swartz But yes.

oooyay 2y ago

I've read a lot about Aaron's time at Reddit / Not A Bug. I somewhat think his fame exceeds his actual accomplishments at times. He was perceived to be very hostile to his peers and subordinates. Kind of a cliche, but aspire to be the best version yourself every day. Learn from the successes and failures of others, but don't aspire to be anyone else because eventually you'll be very disappointed.

bayindirh 2y ago
The gist is, when you find your biggest flaw, work on it, and repeat; you’ve already gone great distance.
baudehlo 2y ago
I knew Aaron back in my IRC days. He hung out with us to talk about RDF for a good couple of years. We chatted almost every day. He was lovely. And a genius. Maybe he changed, but he was a truly nice person.
- oooyay 2y ago
  Yeah, definitely not a statement on Aaron himself. More a statement on idolizing people. There will always be instances where they didn't live up to what people think of them as. I think Aaron was fine and a normal human being.
wongarsu 2y ago
That's what happens to martyrs. They become larger than life and history remembers an idealized version of them

ddingus 2y ago

Indeed

_hcuq 2y ago

Don't sell your soul, is all. But survive. This too will pass.