7 ms·

Transparent coup d'etat attempt rumored to happen for months. The only option when the mouse is cornered. Approval rating in the <10% range, Japan whispering in

Transparent coup d'etat attempt rumored to happen for months. The only option when the mouse is cornered. Approval rating in the <10% range, Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings, crazy selfish wife abusing state resources, it is almost comically predictable if not for how serious it is. North Korea is always the convenient excuse... only hope Westerners don't get fooled by the rhetoric. Guy digging his own grave, only hope Koreans get off their complacent asses and take this guy down quickly. World cannot afford more instability.

willvarfar 2y ago
Are the army likely to back him?
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Unclear if it’s better if they do or they don’t. On one hand it’s clearly against the interests of the country to support him, on the other hand democracies absolutely don’t want the military taking any domestic political role
  - diggan 2y ago
    > democracies absolutely don’t want the military taking any domestic political role If they're actively fighting against the democratic principles (like enforcing martial law to distract from something rather than when really necessary) then yeah, I think we'd want them to take them down if they don't leave by themselves.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    When someone declares martial law, that means that they intend to use the military to enforce their rule. At that point the military has been told to take a domestic political role - it wasn't the military's choice. Of course, the military could refuse. In the abstract, I think that might be ideal. (I don't know enough to say whether that would be ideal in this situation.)
    - deleted 2y ago
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- oldpersonintx 2y ago
  and what of the massive US military presence?
petesergeant 2y ago
> only hope Westerners don't get fooled by the rhetoric This AP article is written very unsympathetically towards him
- tankenmate 2y ago
  Maybe declaring martial law when there isn't a violent overthrow of the government in progress doesn't really garner much sympathy.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    Yes brother, that was my point, wrt to the text I quoted
    - happytoexplain 2y ago
      I read it the same way the parent did - can you clarify?
      - brvsft 2y ago
        His point was that Westerners aren't necessarily going to be fooled, with the example of the AP (Western) viewing his declaration of martial law unsympathetically.
      - petesergeant 2y ago
        There’s not usually much space between consensus Western opinion (when there is one) and AP editorial stance, so if they think he’s a loon, it’s safe to assume most in the West will too. “Unsympathetic towards” does not mean “biased against”
  - bilbo0s 2y ago
    He's being "oppressed" by all the "enemies of South Korea" out there engaging in the newly anti-South Korean practices of "reason and logic".
- 2y ago
flerchin 2y ago
I'm seeing his approval rating at 25% or so. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/12/356_387448.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/12/356_387448.h...
- ncr100 2y ago
  Awaiting the jump to 105% approval. ;-/ I wonder what the level of journalistic independences is in KR. What their public discourse is like. How truth, and opinions are tolerated.
  - flerchin 2y ago
    RSF says: > The Republic of Korea (South Korea) is a liberal democracy that respects media freedom and pluralism. However, tradition and business interests often prevent journalists from fulfilling their role as watchdogs, and populist political tendencies stoke hatred of journalists. https://rsf.org/en/country/south-korea https://rsf.org/en/country/south-korea
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      When Hwang Woo-Suk was lying about cloning humans, his connections in the government allowed him to suppress the story by putting pressure on the network to cancel the second episode of "Producer's Note" that would have aired the rest of the allegations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_affair When the MV Sewol capsized a couple miles off the coast with 300 children actively drowning, the corporate control of the news channels allowed them to suppress the truth of the event, like how there was zero attempts at any rescue, and near zero survivors of passengers. Instead, the news spent a day reporting that all 300ish students had been rescued. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol South Korea is controlled by just a few Chaebols and that includes its news media. The president during the MV Sewol incident for example was ousted at least partially due to the kinds of corruption and non-democratic influences that were uncovered after the sinking. When most media is produced, financed, owned, operated etc by a couple hegemons with aligning goals, I don't care what economic system you operate under, you do not have "free" media.
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ken47 2y ago
> rumored to happen for months Source?
- intoamplitudes 2y ago
  Sept 2, 2024 Defense minister nominee rebukes rumors about gov't plan to declare martial law https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381709 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 3, 2024 Lee’s raising of suspicions of martial law plans isn’t baseless — just look back to 2017 https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1156787.html https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1... Sept 4, 2024 [News analysis] Why is Korea’s Democratic Party talking about martial law? https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1157003.html https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1... Sept 4, 2024 [ED] No room for martial law talk https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381857 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 5, 2024 DPK's martial law claim backfires due to lack of evidence https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381952 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 5, 2024 Martial law equals coup-d’etat: What would it mean for South Korea? https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381924 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...
coldtea 2y ago
Western politicians might pretend to take it at face value, as it's useful to fuel the foreign threat narratives, and help elites use similar excuses here too.
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hammock 2y ago
What if it was all part of the plan?
NalNezumi 2y ago
>Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings I'm curious if you have some sources for this? I'm not that familiar with SK politics and I'm obviously biased since almost all info about SK I either get from English/Japanese sources. Afaik he was pretty dovish towards Japan during his election, which goes against the decades long tradition of tit-for-tat during election between SK&Japan since "looking tough to the neighbor" win votes. I wasn't aware of any "Japan whispering in his ear" level embezzlement. He seems just more pro US, closer ties with Japan rather than "balance things between China/US-JP"
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- decafninja 2y ago
  The conservatives tend to blame the liberals for being North Korean sympathizers. The liberals tend to blame the conservatives for being Japanese sellouts. They use these angles to inflame public opinion against the other party and distract from other issues. I’d say anyone seriously thinking Japan has bought out the conservatives is just as foolish as someone that seriously thinks the liberals are North Korean spies. That said, there is a contingent of South Koreans that genuinely consider Japan a mortal military threat just biding their time and waiting to attack Korea. And that North Korea is just a merely misguided misunderstood brother that is absolutely harmless despite their sabre rattling.
jbm 2y ago
> Japan whispering in his ear Anyone who has dealt with Japanese bureaucracy and government at large is stifling a giggle at this idea.
- jldugger 2y ago
  Plus, their brand new prime minister called a snap election and damn near lost himself the job when his party came out worse than he started.
ExoticPearTree 2y ago
> crazy selfish wife abusing state resources Seems to be something that kind of happens when someone in Korea rises to the top of political power. Remember the former president that was pretty much ousted for corruption a few years back? She had a confidant that would pull her strings.

willvarfar 2y ago

Are the army likely to back him?

petesergeant 2y ago
Unclear if it’s better if they do or they don’t. On one hand it’s clearly against the interests of the country to support him, on the other hand democracies absolutely don’t want the military taking any domestic political role
- diggan 2y ago
  > democracies absolutely don’t want the military taking any domestic political role If they're actively fighting against the democratic principles (like enforcing martial law to distract from something rather than when really necessary) then yeah, I think we'd want them to take them down if they don't leave by themselves.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  When someone declares martial law, that means that they intend to use the military to enforce their rule. At that point the military has been told to take a domestic political role - it wasn't the military's choice. Of course, the military could refuse. In the abstract, I think that might be ideal. (I don't know enough to say whether that would be ideal in this situation.)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
oldpersonintx 2y ago
and what of the massive US military presence?

petesergeant 2y ago

> only hope Westerners don't get fooled by the rhetoric This AP article is written very unsympathetically towards him

tankenmate 2y ago
Maybe declaring martial law when there isn't a violent overthrow of the government in progress doesn't really garner much sympathy.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Yes brother, that was my point, wrt to the text I quoted
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    I read it the same way the parent did - can you clarify?
    - brvsft 2y ago
      His point was that Westerners aren't necessarily going to be fooled, with the example of the AP (Western) viewing his declaration of martial law unsympathetically.
    - petesergeant 2y ago
      There’s not usually much space between consensus Western opinion (when there is one) and AP editorial stance, so if they think he’s a loon, it’s safe to assume most in the West will too. “Unsympathetic towards” does not mean “biased against”
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  He's being "oppressed" by all the "enemies of South Korea" out there engaging in the newly anti-South Korean practices of "reason and logic".
2y ago

flerchin 2y ago

I'm seeing his approval rating at 25% or so. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/12/356_387448.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/12/356_387448.h...

ncr100 2y ago
Awaiting the jump to 105% approval. ;-/ I wonder what the level of journalistic independences is in KR. What their public discourse is like. How truth, and opinions are tolerated.
- flerchin 2y ago
  RSF says: > The Republic of Korea (South Korea) is a liberal democracy that respects media freedom and pluralism. However, tradition and business interests often prevent journalists from fulfilling their role as watchdogs, and populist political tendencies stoke hatred of journalists. https://rsf.org/en/country/south-korea https://rsf.org/en/country/south-korea
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    When Hwang Woo-Suk was lying about cloning humans, his connections in the government allowed him to suppress the story by putting pressure on the network to cancel the second episode of "Producer's Note" that would have aired the rest of the allegations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_affair When the MV Sewol capsized a couple miles off the coast with 300 children actively drowning, the corporate control of the news channels allowed them to suppress the truth of the event, like how there was zero attempts at any rescue, and near zero survivors of passengers. Instead, the news spent a day reporting that all 300ish students had been rescued. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol South Korea is controlled by just a few Chaebols and that includes its news media. The president during the MV Sewol incident for example was ousted at least partially due to the kinds of corruption and non-democratic influences that were uncovered after the sinking. When most media is produced, financed, owned, operated etc by a couple hegemons with aligning goals, I don't care what economic system you operate under, you do not have "free" media.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ken47 2y ago

> rumored to happen for months Source?

intoamplitudes 2y ago
Sept 2, 2024 Defense minister nominee rebukes rumors about gov't plan to declare martial law https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381709 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 3, 2024 Lee’s raising of suspicions of martial law plans isn’t baseless — just look back to 2017 https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1156787.html https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1... Sept 4, 2024 [News analysis] Why is Korea’s Democratic Party talking about martial law? https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1157003.html https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1... Sept 4, 2024 [ED] No room for martial law talk https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381857 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 5, 2024 DPK's martial law claim backfires due to lack of evidence https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381952 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381... Sept 5, 2024 Martial law equals coup-d’etat: What would it mean for South Korea? https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381924 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...

coldtea 2y ago

Western politicians might pretend to take it at face value, as it's useful to fuel the foreign threat narratives, and help elites use similar excuses here too.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

hammock 2y ago

What if it was all part of the plan?

NalNezumi 2y ago

>Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings I'm curious if you have some sources for this? I'm not that familiar with SK politics and I'm obviously biased since almost all info about SK I either get from English/Japanese sources. Afaik he was pretty dovish towards Japan during his election, which goes against the decades long tradition of tit-for-tat during election between SK&Japan since "looking tough to the neighbor" win votes. I wasn't aware of any "Japan whispering in his ear" level embezzlement. He seems just more pro US, closer ties with Japan rather than "balance things between China/US-JP"

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
decafninja 2y ago
The conservatives tend to blame the liberals for being North Korean sympathizers. The liberals tend to blame the conservatives for being Japanese sellouts. They use these angles to inflame public opinion against the other party and distract from other issues. I’d say anyone seriously thinking Japan has bought out the conservatives is just as foolish as someone that seriously thinks the liberals are North Korean spies. That said, there is a contingent of South Koreans that genuinely consider Japan a mortal military threat just biding their time and waiting to attack Korea. And that North Korea is just a merely misguided misunderstood brother that is absolutely harmless despite their sabre rattling.

jbm 2y ago

> Japan whispering in his ear Anyone who has dealt with Japanese bureaucracy and government at large is stifling a giggle at this idea.

jldugger 2y ago
Plus, their brand new prime minister called a snap election and damn near lost himself the job when his party came out worse than he started.

ExoticPearTree 2y ago

> crazy selfish wife abusing state resources Seems to be something that kind of happens when someone in Korea rises to the top of political power. Remember the former president that was pretty much ousted for corruption a few years back? She had a confidant that would pull her strings.