7 ms·

I remember this. Wish I'd kept my little piece of history. Written at a time when people were still optimistic and hopeful about tech.

jonas21 2y ago
Lots of people are still optimistic about tech. They just generally don't have time to get into silly arguments about it on HN.
- dowager_dan99 2y ago
  You're right - but also very wrong. People can be optimistic while still having an existential crisis about what they see/feel is happening. That's what makes them believe they can influence and change the world, and why they even try. What we're seeing in tech today feels like it started in the 80's, and before that point computers, etc. were viewed by some as the downfall of humankind and by others the saviour.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    Oh, man, I can still remember how when barcodes started showing up on products in the late 70s that there were people saying it was the mark of the beast or a precursor to it or that it was some government ploy.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      They still say that, by the way.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Eh, people back then were optimistic about tech AND had time to get into silly arguments about it on HN. So something's changed
  - sumeno 2y ago
    We've seen the enshitification process play out too many times
- pie420 2y ago
  i'm sure there's lots of tech optimists in absolute numbers, but my personal experience in the bay area has been that a vast majority of my friends in tech and tech adjacent have become highly pessimistic of the current tech landscape, AI, VR, etc.
  - wyclif 2y ago
    All you have to do to see this is to look at how some of the biggest tech CEOs and moguls like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, Elon, Jeff Bezos, etc. treat giving their children screens to babysit them. Pretty sure most of them don't, because they know how bad that is.
    - mbostleman 2y ago
      I’m looking forward to when tech is not synonymous with screens.
    - jjeaff 2y ago
      or they don't because they have full time, live-in nannies to keep their children occupied.
      - aprilthird2021 2y ago
        They explicitly share that they don't let their kids use so much screens etc. And they have always been huge advocates of this because they want responsibility for their technology's effect on children to be shifted to parents. So, by themselves modeling how to set boundaries for their kids, they bolster the claim that good parenting is the issue, not the apps designed to be addictive
  - umeshunni 2y ago
    That's called a little blue bubble.
- udev4096 2y ago
  And yet, you are still here making silly arguments for not getting into silly arguments
cflewis 2y ago
Yeah, the dreams of what computers could do around Windows 95, and what the Internet could do around Windows 98/Windows 2000... it felt amazing as a teenager who wanted to go into computer science. IMHO social media heralded the beginning of the end, although no-one knew that at the time. A lot of the 90s nostalgia is just the same rose-tinted glasses as all generations experience, but I think in this one dimension it truly felt a lot better back then.
- alex1138 2y ago
  I have a serious problem with calling everything social media and (more importantly) how it spells doom for this that and the other If you want to criticize specific companies - yeah. But I literally do not understand what people are talking about when employing the usual "Social media was a mistake" type stuff
  - NetOpWibby 2y ago
    People typically refer to the data brokerage economy that sprung up thanks to social media. As well as being experimented on (A/B tests) for dubious reasons.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      But, the data brokerage economy was the only way such a thing could connect people from different economic backgrounds, etc. Without that, to pay for social media, the options would have been paid apps, which would never have had the escape velocity to be what current social media is today
      - NetOpWibby 2y ago
        > the data brokerage economy was the only way such a thing could connect people For people profiting from that economy, of course. For everyone else? Not at all. > what current social media is today ...the social media of today is undesirable. People would absolutely pay for social media if the product was good enough. In fact, I believe we're heading towards that future[1]. "Free" search exists. However, so does paid[2]. The idea that companies need hyper growth, "escape velocity," or whatever to succeed is outdated. --- [1]: https://socii.network https://socii.network [2]: https://kagi.com https://kagi.com
gosub100 2y ago
FB has done a lot of great things. There just aren't any articles written about them.
- dowager_dan99 2y ago
  I agree, but you don't get to weigh everything out on a scale and be measured by the balance - even if you could. How would you compare say, GraphQL, with providing a mechanism for 24/7 cyber bullying, or sharing photos with grand parents? Which side of the ledger does React even go on?
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  From the viewpoint of developer culture I think Facebook is better night and day than Google. Google's culture is hire 15 geniuses from the Ivy League with 130+ IQ and make them fight with a 40 minute C++ build and a balky Kubernetes culture because "we only hire the best"; YouTube and the advertising system are a money printing machine, the team works for 3.5 years at something that get canceled at the last minute. Facebook is much more oriented towards greasing the skids with the goal that a fresher developer would be able to push a change to a shared development system the first day on the job. Look at React vs Flutter. Like Microsoft, Google is thrashing around looking for "the next big thing", sometimes like a mindless beast. I've met person after person who told me that they went there because they believed they could make an impact and came to the conclusion within a year that they couldn't make any impact at all. Facebook on the other hand is still run by the founder and it is pushing hard to develop a technology that he believes in even if the rest of us don't. It's a riskier strategy than Microsoft or Google who are likely to stumble on another multibillion dollar business despite themselves.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Microsoft stumbled into OpenAI and Google stumbled into Waymo. What's Facebook got?
    - adamontherun 2y ago
      Orion
sprice 2y ago
A surprising number of people are optimistic and hopeful about technology while not experiencing an existential crisis about it. FWIW I’ve noticed with some confusion that over the past years HN has become more cynical and pessimistic towards tech.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  This has always been the case, particularly for Facebook. Even when they acquired Instagram, the vast majority of the comments were negative (the top comment called it well though). I do think that HN has gone from indie entrepreneur/ real startups to Big Tech and then back again over the time I've been hanging out here.
disgruntledphd2 2y ago
I still have mine, which is apparently unusual.

jonas21 2y ago

Lots of people are still optimistic about tech. They just generally don't have time to get into silly arguments about it on HN.

dowager_dan99 2y ago
You're right - but also very wrong. People can be optimistic while still having an existential crisis about what they see/feel is happening. That's what makes them believe they can influence and change the world, and why they even try. What we're seeing in tech today feels like it started in the 80's, and before that point computers, etc. were viewed by some as the downfall of humankind and by others the saviour.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  Oh, man, I can still remember how when barcodes started showing up on products in the late 70s that there were people saying it was the mark of the beast or a precursor to it or that it was some government ploy.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    They still say that, by the way.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Eh, people back then were optimistic about tech AND had time to get into silly arguments about it on HN. So something's changed
- sumeno 2y ago
  We've seen the enshitification process play out too many times
pie420 2y ago
i'm sure there's lots of tech optimists in absolute numbers, but my personal experience in the bay area has been that a vast majority of my friends in tech and tech adjacent have become highly pessimistic of the current tech landscape, AI, VR, etc.
- wyclif 2y ago
  All you have to do to see this is to look at how some of the biggest tech CEOs and moguls like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, Elon, Jeff Bezos, etc. treat giving their children screens to babysit them. Pretty sure most of them don't, because they know how bad that is.
  - mbostleman 2y ago
    I’m looking forward to when tech is not synonymous with screens.
  - jjeaff 2y ago
    or they don't because they have full time, live-in nannies to keep their children occupied.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      They explicitly share that they don't let their kids use so much screens etc. And they have always been huge advocates of this because they want responsibility for their technology's effect on children to be shifted to parents. So, by themselves modeling how to set boundaries for their kids, they bolster the claim that good parenting is the issue, not the apps designed to be addictive
- umeshunni 2y ago
  That's called a little blue bubble.
udev4096 2y ago
And yet, you are still here making silly arguments for not getting into silly arguments

cflewis 2y ago

Yeah, the dreams of what computers could do around Windows 95, and what the Internet could do around Windows 98/Windows 2000... it felt amazing as a teenager who wanted to go into computer science. IMHO social media heralded the beginning of the end, although no-one knew that at the time. A lot of the 90s nostalgia is just the same rose-tinted glasses as all generations experience, but I think in this one dimension it truly felt a lot better back then.

alex1138 2y ago
I have a serious problem with calling everything social media and (more importantly) how it spells doom for this that and the other If you want to criticize specific companies - yeah. But I literally do not understand what people are talking about when employing the usual "Social media was a mistake" type stuff
- NetOpWibby 2y ago
  People typically refer to the data brokerage economy that sprung up thanks to social media. As well as being experimented on (A/B tests) for dubious reasons.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    But, the data brokerage economy was the only way such a thing could connect people from different economic backgrounds, etc. Without that, to pay for social media, the options would have been paid apps, which would never have had the escape velocity to be what current social media is today
    - NetOpWibby 2y ago
      > the data brokerage economy was the only way such a thing could connect people For people profiting from that economy, of course. For everyone else? Not at all. > what current social media is today ...the social media of today is undesirable. People would absolutely pay for social media if the product was good enough. In fact, I believe we're heading towards that future[1]. "Free" search exists. However, so does paid[2]. The idea that companies need hyper growth, "escape velocity," or whatever to succeed is outdated. --- [1]: https://socii.network https://socii.network [2]: https://kagi.com https://kagi.com

gosub100 2y ago

FB has done a lot of great things. There just aren't any articles written about them.

dowager_dan99 2y ago
I agree, but you don't get to weigh everything out on a scale and be measured by the balance - even if you could. How would you compare say, GraphQL, with providing a mechanism for 24/7 cyber bullying, or sharing photos with grand parents? Which side of the ledger does React even go on?
PaulHoule 2y ago
From the viewpoint of developer culture I think Facebook is better night and day than Google. Google's culture is hire 15 geniuses from the Ivy League with 130+ IQ and make them fight with a 40 minute C++ build and a balky Kubernetes culture because "we only hire the best"; YouTube and the advertising system are a money printing machine, the team works for 3.5 years at something that get canceled at the last minute. Facebook is much more oriented towards greasing the skids with the goal that a fresher developer would be able to push a change to a shared development system the first day on the job. Look at React vs Flutter. Like Microsoft, Google is thrashing around looking for "the next big thing", sometimes like a mindless beast. I've met person after person who told me that they went there because they believed they could make an impact and came to the conclusion within a year that they couldn't make any impact at all. Facebook on the other hand is still run by the founder and it is pushing hard to develop a technology that he believes in even if the rest of us don't. It's a riskier strategy than Microsoft or Google who are likely to stumble on another multibillion dollar business despite themselves.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Microsoft stumbled into OpenAI and Google stumbled into Waymo. What's Facebook got?
  - adamontherun 2y ago
    Orion

sprice 2y ago

A surprising number of people are optimistic and hopeful about technology while not experiencing an existential crisis about it. FWIW I’ve noticed with some confusion that over the past years HN has become more cynical and pessimistic towards tech.

disgruntledphd2 2y ago
This has always been the case, particularly for Facebook. Even when they acquired Instagram, the vast majority of the comments were negative (the top comment called it well though). I do think that HN has gone from indie entrepreneur/ real startups to Big Tech and then back again over the time I've been hanging out here.

disgruntledphd2 2y ago

I still have mine, which is apparently unusual.