15 ms·

Show HN: Bike route planner that follows almost only official bike trails

279 points by allg12 2y ago

Hey guys, I built a route planner that is mostly focused on bike touring and using existing bike infrastructure. For each request you're shown what bike tracks/trails your route uses and can further explore them by showing them on map or going to the official trail route. The main idea for the app is to have a friendly and easy to use planner that would make heavy use of official bike trails data (mainly from OpenStreetMap) and make it easy to plan a longer trip using the best possible bike routes out there. Currently the app only works for the Euro region but I'm planning to add North America very soon and then rest of the world. Technical overview: Route finding - Graphhopper sitting in a docker container on a Hetzner server somewhere in Germany. It has 38 GB of graph data(Europe) loaded into RAM for a fast graph traversal. Web App - Next.js 14 with Typescript, backend on the newest version of .NET Map tiles - right now I'm using MapTiler their free tier but planning to switch to my own home server soon and host the maps on it.

thenewrohirrim 2y ago
This looks really great! Do you offer an api as well? I'm part of the team behind https://cyclema.ps https://cyclema.ps and we'd love to see if we could incorporate this as a backend.
- allg12 2y ago
  The backend at this point is just Graphhopper so I think it would make more sense to use it directly and customize it based on your needs: https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper
perpil 2y ago
Typo on the menu: Acitvity->Activity
- allg12 2y ago
  Damn, that's a bit embarrassing. Thanks for pointing this out!
NowhereMan 2y ago
The menu takes up the entire screen on my phone and it is not clear how to close it.
- doublehelix1020 2y ago
  Additionally, even when holding my phone sideways so that I can see the map, it doesn’t appear that hitting “add new point” does anything
amarcheschi 2y ago
It has a few graphical issues but it's definitely cool, here in Tuscany I just grab the car recommended track on maps because if I select to go by bike it suggests off-road, which is a no no for road bikes
nodehopper42 2y ago
Are you aware of "brouter"? Depending on the routing rules (upper left selector) you can choose multiple trail preferences. https://brouter.de/essbee/ https://brouter.de/essbee/
- Heliosmaster 2y ago
  And it's forked frontend https://bikerouter.de https://bikerouter.de
- wintermutestwin 2y ago
  Unusable for me as it won't let me force a specific route. Yes, a car can't drive through that gate, but I can walk through it with my bike. Auto routing is neat and all, but in the real world, cyclists need more flexibility.
- 0l 2y ago
  That link seems to be for an older version from 2021, the latest version is here: https://brouter.de/brouter-web https://brouter.de/brouter-web
- giamma 2y ago
  Not as good as the project from the OP: I tried to connect two cities in Italy, Padova and Riva del Garda (because I know the cycle roads you could use to travel from one to the other) and this project perfectly nailed it, while cycling Brouter suggests low traffic roads but seems to not be aware of many cycle roads.
Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
Nice! I added a similar feature to cycle.travel (my site) a few months back. 5% of the work was writing the code to route only on waymarked routes, 95% was writing code to "heal" the accidental breaks in OSM bike route data...
- PrismCrystal 2y ago
  What does “waymarked routes” mean, exactly? And same question for the OP. Doing OSM editing from Mapillary imagery in various US states, I find that the roads that have roadside signage as “official bike routes”, predate modern safe(r) bike infrastructure. These are often highways that frankly look like death traps: no shoulder, high speed limits. Especially when so many North American long-haul cyclists now are riding “bikepacking” setups, it may be preferable for a router to prioritize quiet agricultural tracks and other unpaved terrain over the supposedly official bike route.
  - Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
    Yeah, waymarked routes in much of the US are an absolute embarrassment. Last time I went cycling in NY State the worst part of the whole route was the official State Bicycle Route. The quiet roads were lovely. cycle.travel treats routes in the States differently to those in Europe for precisely this reason, and there are some routes which get absolutely zero uplift because many of them are so bad (looking at you, East Coast Greenway).
- wintermutestwin 2y ago
  Your site doesn't appear to have waypoints? As an avid cyclist, I couldn't imagine just using some calculated route between two points. I ride for fun, not transportation.
  - Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
    Sure, you can add up to 200 waypoints - if you want to do that via the old-school click-click-click there’s a toggle, or you can just drag the route. I ride for fun too which is why I built a routeplanner that likes quiet and scenic roads!
carlosjobim 2y ago
Have you seen www.cycle.travel? It's an excellent bike route planner made by an indie developer. Your GUI is much more pleasant, and the official bike trails idea is good. What you're missing is writing start and destination points instead of clicking on the map. Maybe you could get together and make a killer product. Edit: I see now that the cycle.travel developer is here in the thread :)
ollybee 2y ago
What I really want form a bike route planner is a map style that shows smaller roads as you zoom out. When planning a cycling I'm interested in tiny back back roads but they are hidden as soon as I zoom out on any map enough to be useful for route planning.
- jMyles 2y ago
  Yep. This is the a crucial cycling feature that's missing. Ideally, I'd also like to highlight roads with diverters, circles, chicanes, bumps, tables, etc.
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    In OpenStreetMap, which is the data source used by most of these navigation apps, the relevant key is traffic_calming. I have not found any navigation app that preferentially chooses streets with traffic_calming features, such as speed humps. I recently suggested that in OSMAnd and got no traction [0]. [0] https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues/21320 https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues/21320
    - pajko 2y ago
      Have you tried https://brouter.de/ https://brouter.de/ ? If that feature is neither supported here, it worth trying to request it.
    - jMyles 2y ago
      Interesting - I'd love to know more about this, and perhaps assist with the data model. While purpose-built traffic calming infra is super nice to have, I'm somewhat more interested in the much more prevalent (at least, outside Europe and Asia) and also muc less expensive roadways which are traffic-calm by default, owing to natural chicanes, unimproved areas, one-lane bridges, etc. Bogota, for example, has a fairly elegant network of unimproved roads connecting the parks. If you take a ride with a local, you see the bike infra much more acutely than what is expressed on gmaps, or even theoretically by looking at `traffic_calming==true`. A much more granular data type is required.
kilokilosupa 2y ago
Any plan to make it open source?
grbi 2y ago
In France, there is https://www.francevelotourisme.com/itineraire/gps https://www.francevelotourisme.com/itineraire/gps UI is not as good but, there is very useful tools like camping, train station, the ability to split your trip in steps ect.
pppone 2y ago
Thank you for this. I personally appreciate the easy to download GPX for my Wahoo. For reference, I've been using [0] to get around the city since Google Maps sucks here. I also really like the routes suggested by [1], but their mobile app is super buggy. [0] - https://cyclers.app/ https://cyclers.app/ [1] - https://www.cyclestreets.net/ https://www.cyclestreets.net/
- thenewrohirrim 2y ago
  hi - if you like the routes suggested by 1, try https://cyclema.ps/hello https://cyclema.ps/hello - disclaimer, i'm part of the team behind it.
  - pppone 2y ago
    Looks really nice - congrats on the app :). I can't test it since I don't use iOS. But if you ever make an android or web browser version - happy to play :)
    - thenewrohirrim 2y ago
      thank you!
  - wintermutestwin 2y ago
    As a cyclist, I would never plan routes on a tiny phone screen with a crappy UI. I would always plan on a computer and then use the phone to keep me on track.
- KomoD 2y ago
  > [0] - https://cyclers.app/ https://cyclers.app/ This looks interesting and the mobile app seems well made, I like that it suggests multiple routes. Currently I just use Google Maps and it sucks here as well.
- wintermutestwin 2y ago
  [0] looked like it would be great, but every time I select an origin point, it just shows a bunch of plans which get in the way of the route I am trying to build. So far, every planner I have tried from this thread has just been frustrating in one way or another. It seems very hard for most to understand things like road+MTB in one ride or that the map shows that the road doesn't go through, but I can simply walk through a gate that a car can't.
allg12 2y ago
Sorry, forgot to mention. The planner is a mess on mobile I totally forgot to make it mobile friendly as I didn't think anyone would want to plan their trip on a phone.
- ickelbawd 2y ago
  Perhaps the number of mobile users would be lower than desktop, but I’ve had to reroute a planned trip from my phone a few times now due to unforeseen construction and road obstructions.
- verelo 2y ago
  Interesting assumption. My mind goes to to a) Most people are mobile first and b) In this category of app, i imagine people want the route with them on their phone as they bike (as they're probably unfamiliar with the route, hence the need to plan it) Cool idea, i'd love to try it but honestly i'd love it on my phone for the aforementioned reasons! --- Edit: Some follow up remarks (From Chrome on a Mac) 1. I found it a bit confusing when creating a route. I assumed it would let me do address completion. The UI seems to just be naming my route instead, i think if you're going to borrow visually from Google maps you should follow their patterns. 2. I was able to add my first point (my home), but adding a second point never worked. 3. The click mechanic is a bit odd. I expect clicking elsewhere when the menu is open (add point/close) that the menu would go away - rather than re-appear in my new click location. 4. The map centred me over Europe, i'm in Canada however. Some GeoIP lookup here could give a better experience. 5. Re:point 2, this seems to work when i selected random locations in Europe. I assume this is a data issue? So the real issue here (apart from the routing not working) is there's no feedback on the UI when the routing fails. 6. Refreshing my screen loses my route. Any chance you could save it to local storage or something? Would be amazing if i could create this route on my desktop and then send a link to my phone (once mobile is supported?)
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    I think the purpose is to export the route to GPX, so that you can use it on your phone when you're cycling.
jubjubbird 2y ago
Here's a cool demo I saw recently that allows a cyclist to specify risk tolerance for busy roads, based on traffic data. Take the direct, busy route, or the roundabout way, using bike paths where available. https://rc.nau.edu/cranc/?profile=ibc&layer=OpenStreetMap https://rc.nau.edu/cranc/?profile=ibc&layer=OpenStreetMap
lqet 2y ago
Works very well, it exactly replicated my everyday route to work.
- Mainsail 2y ago
  So for me, it doesn't add a second point. Is that because it can't find a route or is it just not working? Boulder, Colorado for reference.
  - vulture916 2y ago
    Same in Phoenix.
  - KomoD 2y ago
    "Currently the app only works for the Euro region but I'm planning to add North America very soon and then rest of the world."
Sacco215 2y ago
Holy shit it's awesome! I've been bikepaking for two years now and I wish I had this tool I've used komoot in the past but I was never satisfied with the paths it suggested and had to rely on local guides I've checked with some of the past trips I id and it guesses correctly all of the best paths
- allg12 2y ago
  Thanks man! Really glad to hear that. Actually, I had bikepacking and bike touring in mind while working on it as I love doing long cross-country bike trips every summer myself.
jameal 2y ago
Looks interesting! Unfortunately doesn't seem to let me add more than one point on my route. In the console I see `Error fetching route from Graphhopper Error: Network response was not ok` I tried a couple times and got this in the U.S. In Europe I picked a couple random points and it worked fine.
- oregoncurtis 2y ago
  I'm getting the same, it's a 400 response.
  - allg12 2y ago
    So far, I've only generated the graph for Europe(using Graphhopper). Even just Europe required 128GB of RAM and around 10 hours of computation time (the entire planet would likely need 384GB of RAM). I plan to add North America on a separate Docker container soon though. I started with Europe because I’m familiar with some of the bike trails here, which makes it easier for me to check if the routing makes sense.
    - mvdtnz 2y ago
      You should at least add some kind of error handling so I'm not sitting there like a dope clicking over and over with no result.
      - allg12 2y ago
        Apologies, just added a popup with region availability info
    - karussell 2y ago
      > the entire planet would likely need 384GB of RAM Unlikely. Even with turn costs enabled 256GB (or less) are sufficient. You could also try to disable CH as for bike often no long routes are required (you could disable them). Here we have written down a few more details: https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2022/06/27/host-your-own-worldwide-route-calculator-with-graphhopper/ https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2022/06/27/host-your-own-wo...
greener_grass 2y ago
A great concept, but there's one big problem: many official bike trails are crap. Sometimes it's actually better to take the road, or you end up on a windy route that's near impossible to follow, debris everywhere, no right of way, etc. I would like to try this with a "prefer offroad" option.
- rconti 2y ago
  There are numerous options available for that; Strava, RideWithGPS, Google Maps, etc. I think the point of this project is to create something _new_ and different.
givinguflac 2y ago
[flagged]
- allg12 2y ago
  I definitely want to get the mobile version up and running soon but it’s a lot of work to set everything up for this project especially since Im working solo. For a fully functional route planner, it would probably make more sense to build a React Native app instead of just a website.
unstyledcontent 2y ago
I spent a minute or two trying to create a route but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'm on mobile, using chrome. I didn't see anywhere to enter coordinates.
simlevesque 2y ago
Reminds me of a story: two years ago I was riding my bike, doing a 45 miles ride from Montreal to Dunham. I was following Google Map's directions and it led me inside a Canadian Army base (Farnham). I saw modified pickup trucks full of guys with rifles about 100 metres from the entrance which said "Keep out" and Google wanted me to go there. I didn't. They changed it now.
- sammyo 2y ago
  I sent in a report sending bikes through a highway tunnel in Boston, took six months but received a message they made the correction.
SonicScrub 2y ago
This is phenomenal! As an avid bike packer, I've always wanted this. Eagerly awaiting the expansion to North America. Please don't forget about Canada when building ;)
joshribakoff 2y ago
Constructive feedback: (i am on mobile). The map pulls up somewhere in Europe, even though I am in the bay area. I can’t really see for sure because the side bar covers the whole map. I cannot zoom in or out at all. When I clicked to add a point, it just adds it in a random location. The map is really zoomed out so a few pixels is like 100 km. There is metadata displayed such as the length of my route, but it seems I cannot input a length and have it create a route for me I have personally had good luck with my Garmin watch. If I start out near a major trail, it tends to suggest routes along that trail. I’m able to input a desired length such as 10 miles and then it suggests multiple routes that are close to that length and use major trails. My biggest complaint with the Garmin is that it tends to suggest the same routes every day.
bagels 2y ago
Are tracks and trails paved? I'm always looking for urban routes, which occasionally uses paved "trails", but also bike routes, bike lanes and smaller less trafficked roads.
hermitcrab 2y ago
Thanks for doing this. BTW Typo: 'Acitvity type' in the UI should be 'Activity type'.
ghostly_s 2y ago
Seems completely broken on mobile.
cullenking 2y ago
Nice work! I run ridewithgps.com and am responsible for all our mapping and routing. If you ever want to pick my brain about anything related to bike software, and of course grapphopper / vector tiles, feel free to reach out, email is in my profile. I'm actually about to dive into fixing up some custom graphhopper routing profiles today for some new route planner updates we are about to release!
- clementmas 2y ago
  It’s nice to see so many founders here. I run travelmap.net and I can also help out with self-hosting custom map tiles or tracing itineraries on Mapbox/Maplibre maps.
  - allg12 2y ago
    Thank you, appreciate it! Travelmap looks awesome—I love the idea. I will definitely try it out on my next trip. This morning, I picked up an affordable m920q with 64GB of RAM and I’m planning to use it for hosting GH and maybe vector tiles too. If I run into any issues I can’t figure out quickly I’ll reach out but I don’t want to bug you with basic questions.
    - cullenking 2y ago
      I have a stack of about 10 older dual xeon based supermicro 1u machines with 512gb of ram....if you are in the oregon area you can have any number of them for free! infini-ram makes life easier when dealing with OSM data.
      - allg12 2y ago
        Oh man, that's sweet! Thank you. I would be at your door by now but I'm located 8000 km away from Oregon :D I just received a tiny M920Q, and 64 GB of RAM should arrive tomorrow. I'll have to make do with it for now :D
    - clementmas 2y ago
      Nowadays the cheapest way to self-host planet vector tiles is probably to use protomaps.com and throw the .pmtiles file on a S3 bucket (AWS, Cloudflare, etc.).
chainwax 2y ago
I love where you're going with this, nearly all of my little side projects have something to do with maps and bikes. No comment on how the routes are as I'm not really familiar with any good routes in bigger Euro cities, but as someone who rides around NYC a lot this would be really useful in making routes for visitors who aren't as keen on riding in NYC traffic. Mobile needs some work. Are you planning on open sourcing this? I'm a mobile dev that might be able to clean that up a little. Good candidate for React Native.
INTPenis 2y ago
Not bad! I'm an avid bike camper and I just tried creating a route through Sweden and it does a pretty good job. We are a bit spoilt for choice here with bicycle routes. The only feature I'd want is to be able to print the route on paper maps. I wonder if print CSS could be used to create pages of the whole route.
rafram 2y ago
This may not be the site's problem, but why is the OSM map showing some place name labels in Gaelic? Montenegro is "Am Monadh Neagrach," Greece is "A' Ghrèig." Last I checked Gaelic is not a widely spoken language in either of those countries (and I'm nowhere near Scotland).
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Nicely done! I use Komoot and RidewithGPS, but this is a nice tool if you want to plan a route that relies on bike trails as much as possible. Would be cool to also show the elevation for a given segment along with its distance (in the route trail list). And maybe when you click on a segment in the map, it should highlight that segment in the trial list so you see the length of that segment. I realize you're just using existing map data, but some bike routes seem to be broken up with very small (couple km) gaps (shown in grey) -- is that really the case? (see Loire a Velo 4 for example)
allg12 2y ago
Hey everyone, I spotted a bug with the default routing profile. It was set to regular bike routing instead of the touring profile, even though the UI suggested otherwise (the Redux state didn’t match what was shown in the UI :D). I’ve fixed it, so it should work as expected now! Love your feedback, thanks so much! The project is in a very early stage so I didn't expect such a response.
mvdtnz 2y ago
"Add new point" button doesn't do anything. Falls over at the very first hurdle. 3 error in the console, POST https://routes.trailimap.com/route/ 400 (Bad Request) Error fetching route from Graphhopper Error: Network response was not ok Uncaught (in promise) TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'paths') at g (page-c19a2a89477d3054.js:1:35496)
benjiweber 2y ago
This does a much better job than anything I've seen before. Nice work. It still doesn't generate routes I'd use as they're too circuitous due to the poor cycle infrastructure in the UK. However, it does a good job of highlighting good options and options I didn't even know about.
dkga 2y ago
Exciting! For me would be a nice complement or competition to, say, Komoot. Constructive feedback: at least on safari, it was not as smooth to navigate as other map apps, and also a bit cumbersome to add waypoints, etc. A small but important thing - there is a typo in the “activity” spelling. Hope that helps, and best of luck with it!
wilson090 2y ago
Would love to see this for the SF Bay Area - lots of great cycling around here and I'm unsatisfied with using Strava to create routes! One of the most frustrating things for me with snapping to official paths is not being able to modify it for common workarounds (for instance, going across the Golden Gate bridge, everyone takes a shortcut through a parking lot, but every map routing platform I have used forces me to go the official route and messes up my nav)
- raywu 2y ago
  It feels like the approach OP is taking won’t be able to take this short cut into account. I too am interested in linking up good bike trails. Mostly for the east bay gravel systems. Today, I save GPX or geojson from routes I find on Strava and import into a map client (CalTopo). It’s a okay solution but my problem is in finding more alternative routes.
- arjvik 2y ago
  Which parking lot? I ride the bridge a ton from the Presidio to travel up to Marin!
  - wilson090 2y ago
    It's the parking lot near Lincoln Blvd and Merchant Rd. If you come from Chrissy field, you wouldn't cut thru it, but my route is Arguello -> Washington -> Lincoln then through the parking lot onto the path by the battery onto the bridge
- burnt-resistor 2y ago
  And Davis, naturally. ;) I'm around hill country TX now where there is typically a patchwork of bike lanes segments that start and stop without much attention given to continuity of (sub)urban planning, walkability, safety, or design consideration for non-motorized users.
lmm 2y ago
Hmm, I've more often found myself wanting the opposite - a way to plan bike travel that follows reasonable roads rather than the Silly Sustrans Routes. Does your approach generalise to that?
- allg12 2y ago
  You can change the profile to 'road cycling' and it will avoid paths with bad surfaces. Not sure about the UK but I've cycled quite a lot around here in Europe (12 countries so far) and from my experience, if you don't follow the official bike trails you're missing a lot. They are usually nice scenic and quiet roads with good (asphalt) surfaces. I'm talking about trails like the Alpe Adria Cycle path. There are tons of them in mainland Europe. But you're right - if the surface is bad, then it doesn't make sense to follow the trail. I will add a feature that will highlight the selected surface on the line (similar to what Komoot already does) so you can better investigate the route and make sure the surface is alright. I'm also planning to add a feature where users could rate the track so you could filter out the bad tracks based on other people's reviews.
  - PrismCrystal 2y ago
    Avoiding the official bike trails in Europe has advantages. For example, when you plot your own routes away from the touristic ones, local people might be more willing to chat or offer you a place to stay for the night because they have never met a foreign bicycle traveler before. Also, bikepacking is big these days, so a lot of cyclists want routes that don't have good asphalt surfaces.
anotheryou 2y ago
If only Berlin cobblestone was mapped as "cobblestone" not "sett" on open streetmaps -_- Had to customize https://brouter.de/brouter-web https://brouter.de/brouter-web to make something workable. But i's annoying to paste script, route, export gps, send to phone, import in komot just for a 30min ride. (Can share if anyone is interesed. Just be very respectful please, it does not avoid footpaths either)
gorgonical 2y ago
This is very cool and very useful as a commuting cyclist. The routes that OSM and Google give me don't always have a high "reasonability" score in that they may be the most direct routes, but the road conditions are very uncomfortable for cycling for any one of many reasons. One thing that would be very useful is to color the segments on the map based on the waytype. The proportions are given in the summary but unless I already know the route I can't tell where exactly those segments of difficult cobblestone are.
salmonlogs 2y ago
This is great! It really reminds me of https://trailrouter.com/ https://trailrouter.com/ which I've found amazing for finding new running routes. It would be amazing to have similar functionality to suggest cycling routes of a certain distance that are mostly on bike trails i.e. suggest to me a 40km circular/out-and-back bike route from my house.
T3RMINATED 2y ago
[dead]
mackatsol 2y ago
Does anyone know of similar apps for walking/hiking trails?
- Salmonfisher11 2y ago
  brouter web with hiking profile. https://brouter.de/essbee/ https://brouter.de/essbee/ Select it in in upper left menu - then fine tune the script on the right.
  - mackatsol 2y ago
    Thanks, I will go have a look, much appreciated!
TheBozzCL 2y ago
This looks fantastic! Please make sure to let us know when it's available in the Americas as well, I would love to use this.
- allg12 2y ago
  Thank you! I didn’t add a way for people from other regions to sign up, like a newsletter since I figured most people dislike it here on HN. You can check back on this thread in 2–3 weeks, and there should be an update comment from me announcing a new version of the planner with the US region included.
burnt-resistor 2y ago
Woah, impressive. I plotted a course from the northern tip of Amsterdam to Kinderdijk and it worked the first time. Neat! It would be great™ if it could drag new mandatory points and choose alternative routes. Also, switching from administrative to with satellite view would be helpful.
burnt-resistor 2y ago
Next.js without a node backend, what do you lose (SSR, etc.) by choosing to use another backend-only or monolithic framework? I was looking at Rails (API mode + partial asset pipeline) + Next.js for a project to start, and might entertain elixir or rust when scalability of slow areas became a problem. Sometimes I think there will be eventually a system of LLMs that will figure out how to manage and configure operating systems, write mobile native and web apps, and administer databases. And then they'll eventually rewrite programming languages and design silicon to be better for themselves, so that they will only need a part time human to clean and maintain the robot security guard.
allg12 2y ago
Update: North America is now supported!

279 points by allg12 2y ago

thenewrohirrim 2y ago

This looks really great! Do you offer an api as well? I'm part of the team behind https://cyclema.ps https://cyclema.ps and we'd love to see if we could incorporate this as a backend.

allg12 2y ago
The backend at this point is just Graphhopper so I think it would make more sense to use it directly and customize it based on your needs: https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper

perpil 2y ago

Typo on the menu: Acitvity->Activity

allg12 2y ago
Damn, that's a bit embarrassing. Thanks for pointing this out!

NowhereMan 2y ago

The menu takes up the entire screen on my phone and it is not clear how to close it.

doublehelix1020 2y ago
Additionally, even when holding my phone sideways so that I can see the map, it doesn’t appear that hitting “add new point” does anything

amarcheschi 2y ago

It has a few graphical issues but it's definitely cool, here in Tuscany I just grab the car recommended track on maps because if I select to go by bike it suggests off-road, which is a no no for road bikes

nodehopper42 2y ago

Are you aware of "brouter"? Depending on the routing rules (upper left selector) you can choose multiple trail preferences. https://brouter.de/essbee/ https://brouter.de/essbee/

Heliosmaster 2y ago
And it's forked frontend https://bikerouter.de https://bikerouter.de
wintermutestwin 2y ago
Unusable for me as it won't let me force a specific route. Yes, a car can't drive through that gate, but I can walk through it with my bike. Auto routing is neat and all, but in the real world, cyclists need more flexibility.
0l 2y ago
That link seems to be for an older version from 2021, the latest version is here: https://brouter.de/brouter-web https://brouter.de/brouter-web
giamma 2y ago
Not as good as the project from the OP: I tried to connect two cities in Italy, Padova and Riva del Garda (because I know the cycle roads you could use to travel from one to the other) and this project perfectly nailed it, while cycling Brouter suggests low traffic roads but seems to not be aware of many cycle roads.

Doctor_Fegg 2y ago

Nice! I added a similar feature to cycle.travel (my site) a few months back. 5% of the work was writing the code to route only on waymarked routes, 95% was writing code to "heal" the accidental breaks in OSM bike route data...

PrismCrystal 2y ago
What does “waymarked routes” mean, exactly? And same question for the OP. Doing OSM editing from Mapillary imagery in various US states, I find that the roads that have roadside signage as “official bike routes”, predate modern safe(r) bike infrastructure. These are often highways that frankly look like death traps: no shoulder, high speed limits. Especially when so many North American long-haul cyclists now are riding “bikepacking” setups, it may be preferable for a router to prioritize quiet agricultural tracks and other unpaved terrain over the supposedly official bike route.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
  Yeah, waymarked routes in much of the US are an absolute embarrassment. Last time I went cycling in NY State the worst part of the whole route was the official State Bicycle Route. The quiet roads were lovely. cycle.travel treats routes in the States differently to those in Europe for precisely this reason, and there are some routes which get absolutely zero uplift because many of them are so bad (looking at you, East Coast Greenway).
wintermutestwin 2y ago
Your site doesn't appear to have waypoints? As an avid cyclist, I couldn't imagine just using some calculated route between two points. I ride for fun, not transportation.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
  Sure, you can add up to 200 waypoints - if you want to do that via the old-school click-click-click there’s a toggle, or you can just drag the route. I ride for fun too which is why I built a routeplanner that likes quiet and scenic roads!

carlosjobim 2y ago

Have you seen www.cycle.travel? It's an excellent bike route planner made by an indie developer. Your GUI is much more pleasant, and the official bike trails idea is good. What you're missing is writing start and destination points instead of clicking on the map. Maybe you could get together and make a killer product. Edit: I see now that the cycle.travel developer is here in the thread :)

ollybee 2y ago

What I really want form a bike route planner is a map style that shows smaller roads as you zoom out. When planning a cycling I'm interested in tiny back back roads but they are hidden as soon as I zoom out on any map enough to be useful for route planning.

jMyles 2y ago
Yep. This is the a crucial cycling feature that's missing. Ideally, I'd also like to highlight roads with diverters, circles, chicanes, bumps, tables, etc.
- david-gpu 2y ago
  In OpenStreetMap, which is the data source used by most of these navigation apps, the relevant key is traffic_calming. I have not found any navigation app that preferentially chooses streets with traffic_calming features, such as speed humps. I recently suggested that in OSMAnd and got no traction [0]. [0] https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues/21320 https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues/21320
  - pajko 2y ago
    Have you tried https://brouter.de/ https://brouter.de/ ? If that feature is neither supported here, it worth trying to request it.
  - jMyles 2y ago
    Interesting - I'd love to know more about this, and perhaps assist with the data model. While purpose-built traffic calming infra is super nice to have, I'm somewhat more interested in the much more prevalent (at least, outside Europe and Asia) and also muc less expensive roadways which are traffic-calm by default, owing to natural chicanes, unimproved areas, one-lane bridges, etc. Bogota, for example, has a fairly elegant network of unimproved roads connecting the parks. If you take a ride with a local, you see the bike infra much more acutely than what is expressed on gmaps, or even theoretically by looking at `traffic_calming==true`. A much more granular data type is required.

kilokilosupa 2y ago

Any plan to make it open source?

grbi 2y ago

In France, there is https://www.francevelotourisme.com/itineraire/gps https://www.francevelotourisme.com/itineraire/gps UI is not as good but, there is very useful tools like camping, train station, the ability to split your trip in steps ect.

pppone 2y ago

Thank you for this. I personally appreciate the easy to download GPX for my Wahoo. For reference, I've been using [0] to get around the city since Google Maps sucks here. I also really like the routes suggested by [1], but their mobile app is super buggy. [0] - https://cyclers.app/ https://cyclers.app/ [1] - https://www.cyclestreets.net/ https://www.cyclestreets.net/

thenewrohirrim 2y ago
hi - if you like the routes suggested by 1, try https://cyclema.ps/hello https://cyclema.ps/hello - disclaimer, i'm part of the team behind it.
- pppone 2y ago
  Looks really nice - congrats on the app :). I can't test it since I don't use iOS. But if you ever make an android or web browser version - happy to play :)
  - thenewrohirrim 2y ago
    thank you!
- wintermutestwin 2y ago
  As a cyclist, I would never plan routes on a tiny phone screen with a crappy UI. I would always plan on a computer and then use the phone to keep me on track.
KomoD 2y ago
> [0] - https://cyclers.app/ https://cyclers.app/ This looks interesting and the mobile app seems well made, I like that it suggests multiple routes. Currently I just use Google Maps and it sucks here as well.
wintermutestwin 2y ago
[0] looked like it would be great, but every time I select an origin point, it just shows a bunch of plans which get in the way of the route I am trying to build. So far, every planner I have tried from this thread has just been frustrating in one way or another. It seems very hard for most to understand things like road+MTB in one ride or that the map shows that the road doesn't go through, but I can simply walk through a gate that a car can't.

allg12 2y ago

Sorry, forgot to mention. The planner is a mess on mobile I totally forgot to make it mobile friendly as I didn't think anyone would want to plan their trip on a phone.

ickelbawd 2y ago
Perhaps the number of mobile users would be lower than desktop, but I’ve had to reroute a planned trip from my phone a few times now due to unforeseen construction and road obstructions.
verelo 2y ago
Interesting assumption. My mind goes to to a) Most people are mobile first and b) In this category of app, i imagine people want the route with them on their phone as they bike (as they're probably unfamiliar with the route, hence the need to plan it) Cool idea, i'd love to try it but honestly i'd love it on my phone for the aforementioned reasons! --- Edit: Some follow up remarks (From Chrome on a Mac) 1. I found it a bit confusing when creating a route. I assumed it would let me do address completion. The UI seems to just be naming my route instead, i think if you're going to borrow visually from Google maps you should follow their patterns. 2. I was able to add my first point (my home), but adding a second point never worked. 3. The click mechanic is a bit odd. I expect clicking elsewhere when the menu is open (add point/close) that the menu would go away - rather than re-appear in my new click location. 4. The map centred me over Europe, i'm in Canada however. Some GeoIP lookup here could give a better experience. 5. Re:point 2, this seems to work when i selected random locations in Europe. I assume this is a data issue? So the real issue here (apart from the routing not working) is there's no feedback on the UI when the routing fails. 6. Refreshing my screen loses my route. Any chance you could save it to local storage or something? Would be amazing if i could create this route on my desktop and then send a link to my phone (once mobile is supported?)
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  I think the purpose is to export the route to GPX, so that you can use it on your phone when you're cycling.

jubjubbird 2y ago

Here's a cool demo I saw recently that allows a cyclist to specify risk tolerance for busy roads, based on traffic data. Take the direct, busy route, or the roundabout way, using bike paths where available. https://rc.nau.edu/cranc/?profile=ibc&layer=OpenStreetMap https://rc.nau.edu/cranc/?profile=ibc&layer=OpenStreetMap

lqet 2y ago

Works very well, it exactly replicated my everyday route to work.

Mainsail 2y ago
So for me, it doesn't add a second point. Is that because it can't find a route or is it just not working? Boulder, Colorado for reference.
- vulture916 2y ago
  Same in Phoenix.
- KomoD 2y ago
  "Currently the app only works for the Euro region but I'm planning to add North America very soon and then rest of the world."

Sacco215 2y ago

Holy shit it's awesome! I've been bikepaking for two years now and I wish I had this tool I've used komoot in the past but I was never satisfied with the paths it suggested and had to rely on local guides I've checked with some of the past trips I id and it guesses correctly all of the best paths

allg12 2y ago
Thanks man! Really glad to hear that. Actually, I had bikepacking and bike touring in mind while working on it as I love doing long cross-country bike trips every summer myself.

jameal 2y ago

Looks interesting! Unfortunately doesn't seem to let me add more than one point on my route. In the console I see `Error fetching route from Graphhopper Error: Network response was not ok` I tried a couple times and got this in the U.S. In Europe I picked a couple random points and it worked fine.

oregoncurtis 2y ago
I'm getting the same, it's a 400 response.
- allg12 2y ago
  So far, I've only generated the graph for Europe(using Graphhopper). Even just Europe required 128GB of RAM and around 10 hours of computation time (the entire planet would likely need 384GB of RAM). I plan to add North America on a separate Docker container soon though. I started with Europe because I’m familiar with some of the bike trails here, which makes it easier for me to check if the routing makes sense.
  - mvdtnz 2y ago
    You should at least add some kind of error handling so I'm not sitting there like a dope clicking over and over with no result.
    - allg12 2y ago
      Apologies, just added a popup with region availability info
  - karussell 2y ago
    > the entire planet would likely need 384GB of RAM Unlikely. Even with turn costs enabled 256GB (or less) are sufficient. You could also try to disable CH as for bike often no long routes are required (you could disable them). Here we have written down a few more details: https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2022/06/27/host-your-own-worldwide-route-calculator-with-graphhopper/ https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2022/06/27/host-your-own-wo...

greener_grass 2y ago

A great concept, but there's one big problem: many official bike trails are crap. Sometimes it's actually better to take the road, or you end up on a windy route that's near impossible to follow, debris everywhere, no right of way, etc. I would like to try this with a "prefer offroad" option.

rconti 2y ago
There are numerous options available for that; Strava, RideWithGPS, Google Maps, etc. I think the point of this project is to create something _new_ and different.

givinguflac 2y ago

[flagged]

allg12 2y ago
I definitely want to get the mobile version up and running soon but it’s a lot of work to set everything up for this project especially since Im working solo. For a fully functional route planner, it would probably make more sense to build a React Native app instead of just a website.

unstyledcontent 2y ago

I spent a minute or two trying to create a route but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'm on mobile, using chrome. I didn't see anywhere to enter coordinates.

simlevesque 2y ago

Reminds me of a story: two years ago I was riding my bike, doing a 45 miles ride from Montreal to Dunham. I was following Google Map's directions and it led me inside a Canadian Army base (Farnham). I saw modified pickup trucks full of guys with rifles about 100 metres from the entrance which said "Keep out" and Google wanted me to go there. I didn't. They changed it now.

sammyo 2y ago
I sent in a report sending bikes through a highway tunnel in Boston, took six months but received a message they made the correction.

SonicScrub 2y ago

This is phenomenal! As an avid bike packer, I've always wanted this. Eagerly awaiting the expansion to North America. Please don't forget about Canada when building ;)

joshribakoff 2y ago

Constructive feedback: (i am on mobile). The map pulls up somewhere in Europe, even though I am in the bay area. I can’t really see for sure because the side bar covers the whole map. I cannot zoom in or out at all. When I clicked to add a point, it just adds it in a random location. The map is really zoomed out so a few pixels is like 100 km. There is metadata displayed such as the length of my route, but it seems I cannot input a length and have it create a route for me I have personally had good luck with my Garmin watch. If I start out near a major trail, it tends to suggest routes along that trail. I’m able to input a desired length such as 10 miles and then it suggests multiple routes that are close to that length and use major trails. My biggest complaint with the Garmin is that it tends to suggest the same routes every day.

bagels 2y ago

Are tracks and trails paved? I'm always looking for urban routes, which occasionally uses paved "trails", but also bike routes, bike lanes and smaller less trafficked roads.

hermitcrab 2y ago

Thanks for doing this. BTW Typo: 'Acitvity type' in the UI should be 'Activity type'.

ghostly_s 2y ago

Seems completely broken on mobile.

cullenking 2y ago

Nice work! I run ridewithgps.com and am responsible for all our mapping and routing. If you ever want to pick my brain about anything related to bike software, and of course grapphopper / vector tiles, feel free to reach out, email is in my profile. I'm actually about to dive into fixing up some custom graphhopper routing profiles today for some new route planner updates we are about to release!

clementmas 2y ago
It’s nice to see so many founders here. I run travelmap.net and I can also help out with self-hosting custom map tiles or tracing itineraries on Mapbox/Maplibre maps.
- allg12 2y ago
  Thank you, appreciate it! Travelmap looks awesome—I love the idea. I will definitely try it out on my next trip. This morning, I picked up an affordable m920q with 64GB of RAM and I’m planning to use it for hosting GH and maybe vector tiles too. If I run into any issues I can’t figure out quickly I’ll reach out but I don’t want to bug you with basic questions.
  - cullenking 2y ago
    I have a stack of about 10 older dual xeon based supermicro 1u machines with 512gb of ram....if you are in the oregon area you can have any number of them for free! infini-ram makes life easier when dealing with OSM data.
    - allg12 2y ago
      Oh man, that's sweet! Thank you. I would be at your door by now but I'm located 8000 km away from Oregon :D I just received a tiny M920Q, and 64 GB of RAM should arrive tomorrow. I'll have to make do with it for now :D
  - clementmas 2y ago
    Nowadays the cheapest way to self-host planet vector tiles is probably to use protomaps.com and throw the .pmtiles file on a S3 bucket (AWS, Cloudflare, etc.).

chainwax 2y ago

I love where you're going with this, nearly all of my little side projects have something to do with maps and bikes. No comment on how the routes are as I'm not really familiar with any good routes in bigger Euro cities, but as someone who rides around NYC a lot this would be really useful in making routes for visitors who aren't as keen on riding in NYC traffic. Mobile needs some work. Are you planning on open sourcing this? I'm a mobile dev that might be able to clean that up a little. Good candidate for React Native.

INTPenis 2y ago

Not bad! I'm an avid bike camper and I just tried creating a route through Sweden and it does a pretty good job. We are a bit spoilt for choice here with bicycle routes. The only feature I'd want is to be able to print the route on paper maps. I wonder if print CSS could be used to create pages of the whole route.

rafram 2y ago

This may not be the site's problem, but why is the OSM map showing some place name labels in Gaelic? Montenegro is "Am Monadh Neagrach," Greece is "A' Ghrèig." Last I checked Gaelic is not a widely spoken language in either of those countries (and I'm nowhere near Scotland).

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Nicely done! I use Komoot and RidewithGPS, but this is a nice tool if you want to plan a route that relies on bike trails as much as possible. Would be cool to also show the elevation for a given segment along with its distance (in the route trail list). And maybe when you click on a segment in the map, it should highlight that segment in the trial list so you see the length of that segment. I realize you're just using existing map data, but some bike routes seem to be broken up with very small (couple km) gaps (shown in grey) -- is that really the case? (see Loire a Velo 4 for example)

allg12 2y ago

Hey everyone, I spotted a bug with the default routing profile. It was set to regular bike routing instead of the touring profile, even though the UI suggested otherwise (the Redux state didn’t match what was shown in the UI :D). I’ve fixed it, so it should work as expected now! Love your feedback, thanks so much! The project is in a very early stage so I didn't expect such a response.

mvdtnz 2y ago

"Add new point" button doesn't do anything. Falls over at the very first hurdle. 3 error in the console, POST https://routes.trailimap.com/route/ 400 (Bad Request) Error fetching route from Graphhopper Error: Network response was not ok Uncaught (in promise) TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'paths') at g (page-c19a2a89477d3054.js:1:35496)

benjiweber 2y ago

This does a much better job than anything I've seen before. Nice work. It still doesn't generate routes I'd use as they're too circuitous due to the poor cycle infrastructure in the UK. However, it does a good job of highlighting good options and options I didn't even know about.

dkga 2y ago

Exciting! For me would be a nice complement or competition to, say, Komoot. Constructive feedback: at least on safari, it was not as smooth to navigate as other map apps, and also a bit cumbersome to add waypoints, etc. A small but important thing - there is a typo in the “activity” spelling. Hope that helps, and best of luck with it!

wilson090 2y ago

Would love to see this for the SF Bay Area - lots of great cycling around here and I'm unsatisfied with using Strava to create routes! One of the most frustrating things for me with snapping to official paths is not being able to modify it for common workarounds (for instance, going across the Golden Gate bridge, everyone takes a shortcut through a parking lot, but every map routing platform I have used forces me to go the official route and messes up my nav)

raywu 2y ago
It feels like the approach OP is taking won’t be able to take this short cut into account. I too am interested in linking up good bike trails. Mostly for the east bay gravel systems. Today, I save GPX or geojson from routes I find on Strava and import into a map client (CalTopo). It’s a okay solution but my problem is in finding more alternative routes.
arjvik 2y ago
Which parking lot? I ride the bridge a ton from the Presidio to travel up to Marin!
- wilson090 2y ago
  It's the parking lot near Lincoln Blvd and Merchant Rd. If you come from Chrissy field, you wouldn't cut thru it, but my route is Arguello -> Washington -> Lincoln then through the parking lot onto the path by the battery onto the bridge
burnt-resistor 2y ago
And Davis, naturally. ;) I'm around hill country TX now where there is typically a patchwork of bike lanes segments that start and stop without much attention given to continuity of (sub)urban planning, walkability, safety, or design consideration for non-motorized users.

lmm 2y ago

Hmm, I've more often found myself wanting the opposite - a way to plan bike travel that follows reasonable roads rather than the Silly Sustrans Routes. Does your approach generalise to that?

allg12 2y ago
You can change the profile to 'road cycling' and it will avoid paths with bad surfaces. Not sure about the UK but I've cycled quite a lot around here in Europe (12 countries so far) and from my experience, if you don't follow the official bike trails you're missing a lot. They are usually nice scenic and quiet roads with good (asphalt) surfaces. I'm talking about trails like the Alpe Adria Cycle path. There are tons of them in mainland Europe. But you're right - if the surface is bad, then it doesn't make sense to follow the trail. I will add a feature that will highlight the selected surface on the line (similar to what Komoot already does) so you can better investigate the route and make sure the surface is alright. I'm also planning to add a feature where users could rate the track so you could filter out the bad tracks based on other people's reviews.
- PrismCrystal 2y ago
  Avoiding the official bike trails in Europe has advantages. For example, when you plot your own routes away from the touristic ones, local people might be more willing to chat or offer you a place to stay for the night because they have never met a foreign bicycle traveler before. Also, bikepacking is big these days, so a lot of cyclists want routes that don't have good asphalt surfaces.

anotheryou 2y ago

If only Berlin cobblestone was mapped as "cobblestone" not "sett" on open streetmaps -_- Had to customize https://brouter.de/brouter-web https://brouter.de/brouter-web to make something workable. But i's annoying to paste script, route, export gps, send to phone, import in komot just for a 30min ride. (Can share if anyone is interesed. Just be very respectful please, it does not avoid footpaths either)

gorgonical 2y ago

This is very cool and very useful as a commuting cyclist. The routes that OSM and Google give me don't always have a high "reasonability" score in that they may be the most direct routes, but the road conditions are very uncomfortable for cycling for any one of many reasons. One thing that would be very useful is to color the segments on the map based on the waytype. The proportions are given in the summary but unless I already know the route I can't tell where exactly those segments of difficult cobblestone are.

salmonlogs 2y ago

This is great! It really reminds me of https://trailrouter.com/ https://trailrouter.com/ which I've found amazing for finding new running routes. It would be amazing to have similar functionality to suggest cycling routes of a certain distance that are mostly on bike trails i.e. suggest to me a 40km circular/out-and-back bike route from my house.

T3RMINATED 2y ago

[dead]

mackatsol 2y ago

Does anyone know of similar apps for walking/hiking trails?

Salmonfisher11 2y ago
brouter web with hiking profile. https://brouter.de/essbee/ https://brouter.de/essbee/ Select it in in upper left menu - then fine tune the script on the right.
- mackatsol 2y ago
  Thanks, I will go have a look, much appreciated!

TheBozzCL 2y ago

This looks fantastic! Please make sure to let us know when it's available in the Americas as well, I would love to use this.

allg12 2y ago
Thank you! I didn’t add a way for people from other regions to sign up, like a newsletter since I figured most people dislike it here on HN. You can check back on this thread in 2–3 weeks, and there should be an update comment from me announcing a new version of the planner with the US region included.

burnt-resistor 2y ago

Woah, impressive. I plotted a course from the northern tip of Amsterdam to Kinderdijk and it worked the first time. Neat! It would be great™ if it could drag new mandatory points and choose alternative routes. Also, switching from administrative to with satellite view would be helpful.

burnt-resistor 2y ago

Next.js without a node backend, what do you lose (SSR, etc.) by choosing to use another backend-only or monolithic framework? I was looking at Rails (API mode + partial asset pipeline) + Next.js for a project to start, and might entertain elixir or rust when scalability of slow areas became a problem. Sometimes I think there will be eventually a system of LLMs that will figure out how to manage and configure operating systems, write mobile native and web apps, and administer databases. And then they'll eventually rewrite programming languages and design silicon to be better for themselves, so that they will only need a part time human to clean and maintain the robot security guard.

allg12 2y ago

Update: North America is now supported!