5 ms·

Unemployed Programmer Kept Sneaking Into Apple to Finish the Job

125 points by landonhowell 14y ago

brittohalloran 14y ago
You know you have a good company when people sneak in to do more work after they're not being paid anymore
- relix 14y ago
  You know you have a bad company when you fire people who would sneak in to do more work after they're not being paid anymore
  - bob_kelso 14y ago
    But he wasn't fired. His project was cancelled so Apple offered him to work on something else and he declined. I don't get why the manager would want to throw him out though. A capable employee working for free sounds like every managers dream.
    - bryanlarsen 14y ago
      A facilities manager was the one who wanted to throw him out. They've got a very different mindset. Software & hardware managers actively aided his cause.
    - danielweber 14y ago
      If management knows he's working for free they probably are vulnerable to all kinds of labor problems.
- threepointone 14y ago
  And this is during the non-Jobs years!
- kabdib 14y ago
  Not necessarily. After some layoffs at Atari, there was a guy who daily got past the receptionist with an old badge (not electronic) and hung out in our building's machine room. He was logged onto a Vax as some innocuous account. There was a lot of turmoil, so he got away with it for a while. When we discovered him (I was flushing old accounts, and found this guy in our Vax room who shouldn't have been there) we ejected him, and he had the chutzpah to ask for a tape of his directories.
  - INTPenis 14y ago
    To be fair, a computer the caliber of VAX wasn't something you just pulled out of your pocket and complained about in those days. I was only born in 1985 but I remember craving the computer so bad I'd even endure my bachelor fathers filthy apartment for hours just to play in DOS.
- j_baker 14y ago
  It's not clear that he wasn't getting paid: On the last day of the canceled project, Avitzur’s manager called him into her office to say goodbye. He hadn’t completed the length of his contract, but the company would pay it in full anyway. “Just submit your final invoice for what’s left,” she told him. That’s when it clicked: If Avitzur didn’t submit the invoice, his contract stayed in the system. And if his contract stayed in the system, his ID badge would keep getting him in the front door. The article doesn't specify, but I would imagine that he submitted his invoice once his badge was deactivated.
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    In effect he was working for free, since he could have gotten paid with or without continuing to work for Apple.
- rsanchez1 14y ago
  Good company, or good cult of personality.
nathos 14y ago
Link to the actual programmer's account of the story: http://www.nucalc.com/Story/ http://www.nucalc.com/Story/ and a Google Tech Talk video of Avitzur telling his story: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7497796873809571567# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7497796873809571567...
radicalbyte 14y ago
1. Dig up old stories from slashdot. 2. Write a blog post summarizing them. 3. Post to HN / Reddit. 4. PROFIT. Smart business plan.
- iamdave 14y ago
  Remove step three and you've described a good third of the bloggosphere (why did I just use that word? Somebody get me a gin and tonic, ack)
  - robinduckett 14y ago
    Remove step one and replace with "Lookup folklore.org stories"
    - iamdave 14y ago
      Hey this is a fun site to read, did not know of this. Thanks!
- mikeryan 14y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is actually the 2nd or 3rd time this one's been on HN.
  - bockris 14y ago
    My guess is higher but I don't care to research it. The '500 mile email' and 'The story of Mel the Real Programmer' are trotted out on a regular basis also. As long as you can glean the story from the headline, you can ignore it. It's a tiny bit annoying but I'm not asking for a refund.
    - jrockway 14y ago
      It's a tiny bit annoying but I'm not asking for a refund. "All right, I've been thinking. When HN gives you recycled content, don't make comments - make the submitter take the story back! Get mad! I don't want your damn recycled stories, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see Paul Graham! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson recycled content! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's going to to burn your house down! With the recycled content! I'm going to get my engineers to invent a combustible anecdote that burns your house down!" Don't give him lemons, either.
Jacobi 14y ago
A link for downloading the Graphing Calculator program http://www.pacifict.com/FreeStuff.html http://www.pacifict.com/FreeStuff.html
- Someone 14y ago
  That is the viewer. It does not allow you to input the functions to plot. Fun, but not half as much as the real tool. Max OS X has Grapher (in Applications/Utilities). That likely is a descendant of this tool.
thematt 14y ago
Would this even be possible nowadays? As soon as your badge gets disabled typically any access you have to systems gets disabled as well.
- lukeschlather 14y ago
  > typically Even in the best systems, there are bugs and human operators.
  - doktrin 14y ago
    Yes, but it would still be de-facto unfeasible in most modern (well-run) organizations. It's no longer a matter of setting up a few boxes in a hallway and dodging a lone manager who happens to be patrolling. Everything from building access onwards is non-trivial to consistently bypass - even with inside help. FWIW, I'm not sure the current culture at Apple would support this either. Every single one of the employees who aided Mr. Avitzur would essentially be putting their careers on the line. Modern day Apple is notoriously stern when it comes to employee transgressions.
- mikeryan 14y ago
  From a few weeks ago. Eric Simons spent two cash-strapped months living inside AOL's headquarters while trying to build his start-up. He explains how he played outside of the rules. http://www.inc.com/john-mcdermott/eric-simons-interview-young-entrepreneur-squatted-at-aol.html http://www.inc.com/john-mcdermott/eric-simons-interview-youn...
  - mc32 14y ago
    I don't think that example is equivalent. The ex-AOL guy was working on his own stuff and was basically squatting on AOL property. It's not clear he was accessing AOL computer systems and resources and making changes to or contributing to AOL projects. Basically, place to sleep, munch, shower and perhaps free wi-fi.
wissler 14y ago
There's something to think about comparing this story to the entrepreneur who sneaked into AOL: http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tireless-entrepreneur-who-squatted-at-aol http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tire...
bryanjclark 14y ago
Here's This American Life telling the story (very, very entertaining): http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/284/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go?act=2 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/284/s...
smsm42 14y ago
Some people would have open-sourced the code and then there would be no need to sneak into Apple headquarters and lurk in the bathrooms waiting for facilities people to leave. But I guess in 1994 it might not be as natural as it is now. I wish more companies would open-source their "not quite worked out" projects instead of just burying them.
- FrojoS 14y ago
  Good point. Would it be preinstalled on 20 million computers, though? Also, it seems like they needed to work at Apple because: - They needed access to an unreleased computer (hardware). - They needed feedback from other Apple employers.

125 points by landonhowell 14y ago

brittohalloran 14y ago

You know you have a good company when people sneak in to do more work after they're not being paid anymore

relix 14y ago
You know you have a bad company when you fire people who would sneak in to do more work after they're not being paid anymore
- bob_kelso 14y ago
  But he wasn't fired. His project was cancelled so Apple offered him to work on something else and he declined. I don't get why the manager would want to throw him out though. A capable employee working for free sounds like every managers dream.
  - bryanlarsen 14y ago
    A facilities manager was the one who wanted to throw him out. They've got a very different mindset. Software & hardware managers actively aided his cause.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    If management knows he's working for free they probably are vulnerable to all kinds of labor problems.
threepointone 14y ago
And this is during the non-Jobs years!
kabdib 14y ago
Not necessarily. After some layoffs at Atari, there was a guy who daily got past the receptionist with an old badge (not electronic) and hung out in our building's machine room. He was logged onto a Vax as some innocuous account. There was a lot of turmoil, so he got away with it for a while. When we discovered him (I was flushing old accounts, and found this guy in our Vax room who shouldn't have been there) we ejected him, and he had the chutzpah to ask for a tape of his directories.
- INTPenis 14y ago
  To be fair, a computer the caliber of VAX wasn't something you just pulled out of your pocket and complained about in those days. I was only born in 1985 but I remember craving the computer so bad I'd even endure my bachelor fathers filthy apartment for hours just to play in DOS.
j_baker 14y ago
It's not clear that he wasn't getting paid: On the last day of the canceled project, Avitzur’s manager called him into her office to say goodbye. He hadn’t completed the length of his contract, but the company would pay it in full anyway. “Just submit your final invoice for what’s left,” she told him. That’s when it clicked: If Avitzur didn’t submit the invoice, his contract stayed in the system. And if his contract stayed in the system, his ID badge would keep getting him in the front door. The article doesn't specify, but I would imagine that he submitted his invoice once his badge was deactivated.
- SatvikBeri 14y ago
  In effect he was working for free, since he could have gotten paid with or without continuing to work for Apple.
rsanchez1 14y ago
Good company, or good cult of personality.

nathos 14y ago

Link to the actual programmer's account of the story: http://www.nucalc.com/Story/ http://www.nucalc.com/Story/ and a Google Tech Talk video of Avitzur telling his story: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7497796873809571567# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7497796873809571567...

radicalbyte 14y ago

1. Dig up old stories from slashdot. 2. Write a blog post summarizing them. 3. Post to HN / Reddit. 4. PROFIT. Smart business plan.

iamdave 14y ago
Remove step three and you've described a good third of the bloggosphere (why did I just use that word? Somebody get me a gin and tonic, ack)
- robinduckett 14y ago
  Remove step one and replace with "Lookup folklore.org stories"
  - iamdave 14y ago
    Hey this is a fun site to read, did not know of this. Thanks!
mikeryan 14y ago
I'm pretty sure this is actually the 2nd or 3rd time this one's been on HN.
- bockris 14y ago
  My guess is higher but I don't care to research it. The '500 mile email' and 'The story of Mel the Real Programmer' are trotted out on a regular basis also. As long as you can glean the story from the headline, you can ignore it. It's a tiny bit annoying but I'm not asking for a refund.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    It's a tiny bit annoying but I'm not asking for a refund. "All right, I've been thinking. When HN gives you recycled content, don't make comments - make the submitter take the story back! Get mad! I don't want your damn recycled stories, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see Paul Graham! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson recycled content! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's going to to burn your house down! With the recycled content! I'm going to get my engineers to invent a combustible anecdote that burns your house down!" Don't give him lemons, either.

Jacobi 14y ago

A link for downloading the Graphing Calculator program http://www.pacifict.com/FreeStuff.html http://www.pacifict.com/FreeStuff.html

Someone 14y ago
That is the viewer. It does not allow you to input the functions to plot. Fun, but not half as much as the real tool. Max OS X has Grapher (in Applications/Utilities). That likely is a descendant of this tool.

thematt 14y ago

Would this even be possible nowadays? As soon as your badge gets disabled typically any access you have to systems gets disabled as well.

lukeschlather 14y ago
> typically Even in the best systems, there are bugs and human operators.
- doktrin 14y ago
  Yes, but it would still be de-facto unfeasible in most modern (well-run) organizations. It's no longer a matter of setting up a few boxes in a hallway and dodging a lone manager who happens to be patrolling. Everything from building access onwards is non-trivial to consistently bypass - even with inside help. FWIW, I'm not sure the current culture at Apple would support this either. Every single one of the employees who aided Mr. Avitzur would essentially be putting their careers on the line. Modern day Apple is notoriously stern when it comes to employee transgressions.
mikeryan 14y ago
From a few weeks ago. Eric Simons spent two cash-strapped months living inside AOL's headquarters while trying to build his start-up. He explains how he played outside of the rules. http://www.inc.com/john-mcdermott/eric-simons-interview-young-entrepreneur-squatted-at-aol.html http://www.inc.com/john-mcdermott/eric-simons-interview-youn...
- mc32 14y ago
  I don't think that example is equivalent. The ex-AOL guy was working on his own stuff and was basically squatting on AOL property. It's not clear he was accessing AOL computer systems and resources and making changes to or contributing to AOL projects. Basically, place to sleep, munch, shower and perhaps free wi-fi.

wissler 14y ago

There's something to think about comparing this story to the entrepreneur who sneaked into AOL: http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tireless-entrepreneur-who-squatted-at-aol http://news.cnet.com/8301-32973_3-57440513-296/meet-the-tire...

bryanjclark 14y ago

Here's This American Life telling the story (very, very entertaining): http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/284/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go?act=2 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/284/s...

smsm42 14y ago

Some people would have open-sourced the code and then there would be no need to sneak into Apple headquarters and lurk in the bathrooms waiting for facilities people to leave. But I guess in 1994 it might not be as natural as it is now. I wish more companies would open-source their "not quite worked out" projects instead of just burying them.

FrojoS 14y ago
Good point. Would it be preinstalled on 20 million computers, though? Also, it seems like they needed to work at Apple because: - They needed access to an unreleased computer (hardware). - They needed feedback from other Apple employers.