5 ms·

If cash were invented today, it would be illegal.

by mandibles 2y ago

automatic6131 2y ago
[flagged]
- samatman 2y ago
  This is directly against the guidelines. Please do not conduct yourself in this way here, if you need to insult strangers on the Internet, find somewhere else to do it.
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  Your irony is poisonous. Not only is the OP comment completely valid, it has both legal, historical, and contextual significance, unlike your comment. Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create, trade, receive, pay taxes, or entice/offer/force employees to accept, without the explicit permission from congress through the US Mint - an authorized office of the Treasury, or a licence as a credible/reputable broker, brokerage, or investment firm through the Security and Exchange Commission. If someone owes you for a debt that has been incurred - public or private, you must accept United States Dollars. An executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" - regardless of its medium. An EO isn't even needed - so far, the legal coverage of "sactions" has allowed the US to help shape the narrative in the interest of the security of the economy/nation by not allowing an unbacked, un-correctable fiat challenge the stability of the nations currency.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create No they're not. U.S. dollars are illegal to forge. But the history of currency in America includes state-chartered currency [1], privately-issued currency [2] and even community currencies [3]. Hell, the entire theory of banking is private banks create cash-like instruments in the form of deposits. > executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" Source? This has only been done with gold to my knowledge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_i...
    - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
      > Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create No they're not. Next time you get a token for your local arcade, note the obvious "not redeemable for cash" that every single one has. The same reason is why Gift cards/store 'credit'(read: literally legally debit) have the opposite - that they can only be redeemed for its cash equivalent - but are "not transferable" - those words explicitly dilineate a currency from a store of value - it's economic interoperability. You can have internal representations of value that you accept - and even deny, such as Casino's, if warranted. But you must treat them as a debited cash account, must accept USD regardless for any services indebted, and if you allow infra-structural transactions ( like between users) or accept a large enough amount of fiat, you must Know your Customer, or run afoul of more laws. Eutherum's ICO and the subsequent secondary shovel-selling scams saddled the SEC with the need for more stringent guidance. >U.S. dollars are illegal to forge. without a charter/license/permit and your 10% tax, effectively making it nonviable. It's also illegal to drive a car without a license, sell untaxed alcohol, and offer redemptive fractions of future swap's possible `price. The difference between a fine and a tax is semantics (see: Obamacare) > But the history of currency in America includes state-chartered currency [1], privately-issued currency [2] and even community currencies [3]. Hell, the entire theory of banking is private banks create cash-like instruments in the form of deposits. This is moreso an artifact of companies being people and money being speech; which is legally/politically irreconcilable with the needs of modern governance. > executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" Source? This has only been done with gold to my knowledge. https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808 https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808 Bitcoin was intentionally modeled after the literal economics of the scarcity of a resource vs. it's production rate and it intrinsic utility - Gold. Aside from a trivial privacy oversight (really from a lack of applied math at the time), Bitcoin is nearly perfectly analogous to cash, and therefore would likely be reasoned as such. Even each token having a unique serial number, and those presumably being connected/correlated constantly, make it a near perfect analogy - especially in contexts. Bitcoin is a currency, currencies must be controlled by the State for stability and institutional continuity. Even if it's not "de facto" illegal - given non-production, a regressive tax, and a mote of regulation, it is essentially illegally to horde value for others without 'oversight', as the risks you expose others to could systemically impact everyone's security/stability.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> If cash were invented today, it would be illegal Based on what? Is 2008 not "today," because last I checked cryptocurrencies aren't illegal.
- badsandwitch 2y ago
  Bitcoin is the furthest thing from cash, every single transaction is transparent on input and output. On the other hand... Tornado Cash was made illegal. Pressure is put on exchanges not to service Monero. Odd that it only happens to actual cash-like crypto?
- immibis 2y ago
  They're de facto illegal if you ever make a transaction the government can't trace.

If cash were invented today, it would be illegal.

automatic6131 2y ago

[flagged]

samatman 2y ago
This is directly against the guidelines. Please do not conduct yourself in this way here, if you need to insult strangers on the Internet, find somewhere else to do it.
Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
Your irony is poisonous. Not only is the OP comment completely valid, it has both legal, historical, and contextual significance, unlike your comment. Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create, trade, receive, pay taxes, or entice/offer/force employees to accept, without the explicit permission from congress through the US Mint - an authorized office of the Treasury, or a licence as a credible/reputable broker, brokerage, or investment firm through the Security and Exchange Commission. If someone owes you for a debt that has been incurred - public or private, you must accept United States Dollars. An executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" - regardless of its medium. An EO isn't even needed - so far, the legal coverage of "sactions" has allowed the US to help shape the narrative in the interest of the security of the economy/nation by not allowing an unbacked, un-correctable fiat challenge the stability of the nations currency.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create No they're not. U.S. dollars are illegal to forge. But the history of currency in America includes state-chartered currency [1], privately-issued currency [2] and even community currencies [3]. Hell, the entire theory of banking is private banks create cash-like instruments in the form of deposits. > executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" Source? This has only been done with gold to my knowledge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_banking [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_i...
  - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
    > Cash-equivalent monetary commodities are, by literal definition, illegal to create No they're not. Next time you get a token for your local arcade, note the obvious "not redeemable for cash" that every single one has. The same reason is why Gift cards/store 'credit'(read: literally legally debit) have the opposite - that they can only be redeemed for its cash equivalent - but are "not transferable" - those words explicitly dilineate a currency from a store of value - it's economic interoperability. You can have internal representations of value that you accept - and even deny, such as Casino's, if warranted. But you must treat them as a debited cash account, must accept USD regardless for any services indebted, and if you allow infra-structural transactions ( like between users) or accept a large enough amount of fiat, you must Know your Customer, or run afoul of more laws. Eutherum's ICO and the subsequent secondary shovel-selling scams saddled the SEC with the need for more stringent guidance. >U.S. dollars are illegal to forge. without a charter/license/permit and your 10% tax, effectively making it nonviable. It's also illegal to drive a car without a license, sell untaxed alcohol, and offer redemptive fractions of future swap's possible `price. The difference between a fine and a tax is semantics (see: Obamacare) > But the history of currency in America includes state-chartered currency [1], privately-issued currency [2] and even community currencies [3]. Hell, the entire theory of banking is private banks create cash-like instruments in the form of deposits. This is moreso an artifact of companies being people and money being speech; which is legally/politically irreconcilable with the needs of modern governance. > executive order can, has, had, and will almost certainly be passed again, imminently seizing any cache of "valued currency" Source? This has only been done with gold to my knowledge. https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808 https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20220808 Bitcoin was intentionally modeled after the literal economics of the scarcity of a resource vs. it's production rate and it intrinsic utility - Gold. Aside from a trivial privacy oversight (really from a lack of applied math at the time), Bitcoin is nearly perfectly analogous to cash, and therefore would likely be reasoned as such. Even each token having a unique serial number, and those presumably being connected/correlated constantly, make it a near perfect analogy - especially in contexts. Bitcoin is a currency, currencies must be controlled by the State for stability and institutional continuity. Even if it's not "de facto" illegal - given non-production, a regressive tax, and a mote of regulation, it is essentially illegally to horde value for others without 'oversight', as the risks you expose others to could systemically impact everyone's security/stability.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> If cash were invented today, it would be illegal Based on what? Is 2008 not "today," because last I checked cryptocurrencies aren't illegal.

badsandwitch 2y ago
Bitcoin is the furthest thing from cash, every single transaction is transparent on input and output. On the other hand... Tornado Cash was made illegal. Pressure is put on exchanges not to service Monero. Odd that it only happens to actual cash-like crypto?
immibis 2y ago
They're de facto illegal if you ever make a transaction the government can't trace.