4 ms·

I got admitted into a CS masters program starting in January.

by zero-sharp 2y ago

FredPret 2y ago
Understanding CS will be more valuable in future, not less, especially if you can get an AI to write some of the code.
- barrenko 2y ago
  Up to a point.
  - spwa4 2y ago
    I think that if AI "eats the world", which it will, all other jobs will go away. AI will, for instance, design and run factories. That means most jobs in factories will go away. Those factories will need developers, sysadmins, networking, data analysis, ... to operate, and they don't really have those functions today. It won't be 100% the same as a developer job now, but much closer to developer than to engineer. Tech jobs are definitely coming back. I think more than ever before. This, I think, has an incredible potential to advance the economy, and will require A LOT of programmers, AI/ML engineers and sysadmins, most in places where there is almost zero need for them today.
    - sevensor 2y ago
      Have you ever been in a factory? Perhaps you’ve seen automated material handling systems, robotic assembly systems, and so on. Have you seen the plumbing? Have you seen a pump fail and be replaced? We are a long, long, long way from the lights-out factory. A steady reduction in the number of machine operators does not a self-sufficient plant make.
      - FredPret 2y ago
        It's interesting to think how much better and cheaper robotics would have to be to cover the super long and hairy tail of issues that a single human operator can handle for <$100k / year.
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      Who is gonna buy the stuff the factory makes if all the jobs have been deleted by automation?
      - jkic47 2y ago
        Developing economies purchase a lot from the west. Germany and Japan have export-oriented stances because their local markets are developed to the point that local growth is slow...
century19 2y ago
Don't worry. There is plenty to be done. These stories come up every few years. Previously it was outsourcing to India, or low-code tooling, etc. AI can make you more productive but there will still be plenty of jobs.
- stuckinhell 2y ago
  This isn't the case anymore
  - smithcoin 2y ago
    > citation needed
- some_random 2y ago
  When's the last time you've been on the job market as an early career professional?
jabroni_salad 2y ago
I graduated into the 09 recession and things worked out after awhile. Slumps just come and go. Try not to focus on all the present day doomers.
gavinray 2y ago
If you're an exceptional engineer, job prospects are still there. Find some specialization/niche you're interested in software wise, and start learning + building in public about it. Engage with the community of said niche. After several years of this, you should be fairly well known and have a blog/GitHub with content that suggests you're not entirely inept Then use your network to get a job in said niche
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  > Find some specialization/niche you're interested in software wise, and start learning + building in public about it. This is a very different and mostly non-overlapping skillset compared to focused product engineering at a company. I believe it's a good way to get you there if you have the time and drive to develop those skills. But then if you do are you going to be satisfied with the prize being a job where you don't use them? I'm not discounting this as effective, I just don't think it can work for very many people for several different reasons.
  - gavinray 2y ago
    I suppose it depends on what your interests are, that's true.
donatj 2y ago
When I was starting college twenty years ago, the prevailing sentiment was all programming jobs were going to be outsourced and that getting a CS degree was a fool's errand. I literally had a guidance counselor try to talk me out of it. I did it anyway. When I finished in 2006, there was a real vacuum in the developer space, presumably because everyone got the same advice I did, and jobs were relatively easy to find. By about 2008 there was just no one. We had open developer positions for months with zero applicants. I have seen vacuums and gluts come and go. My advice is just if you are interested, go for it. The market will come around.
- stevev 2y ago
  True. However the future may be different if the government doesn’t make changes. It’s easier and cheaper to now hire off-shore devs than Americans. There goes your pay raises and jobs or competitive salaries.
kspacewalk2 2y ago
Timing worked out very well, then. The best time to take yourself off the market for a year or two and get a degree is when there's a slump.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Seems like the right call. I had a few friends who graduated in 2002. Some of them tried and failed to find a job straight out of Uni, and that really screwed them. They started working retail to keep food on their table and then they were somebody with no relevant experience but not really suitable for the new grad hiring pipeline. OTOH those who went into the master's program in 2002 were fine, they came out a couple of years later when the market was hot.
ta988 2y ago
Make sure you develop skills outside of CS. Pure CS are in for a rough ride.

I got admitted into a CS masters program starting in January.

FredPret 2y ago

Understanding CS will be more valuable in future, not less, especially if you can get an AI to write some of the code.

barrenko 2y ago
Up to a point.
- spwa4 2y ago
  I think that if AI "eats the world", which it will, all other jobs will go away. AI will, for instance, design and run factories. That means most jobs in factories will go away. Those factories will need developers, sysadmins, networking, data analysis, ... to operate, and they don't really have those functions today. It won't be 100% the same as a developer job now, but much closer to developer than to engineer. Tech jobs are definitely coming back. I think more than ever before. This, I think, has an incredible potential to advance the economy, and will require A LOT of programmers, AI/ML engineers and sysadmins, most in places where there is almost zero need for them today.
  - sevensor 2y ago
    Have you ever been in a factory? Perhaps you’ve seen automated material handling systems, robotic assembly systems, and so on. Have you seen the plumbing? Have you seen a pump fail and be replaced? We are a long, long, long way from the lights-out factory. A steady reduction in the number of machine operators does not a self-sufficient plant make.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      It's interesting to think how much better and cheaper robotics would have to be to cover the super long and hairy tail of issues that a single human operator can handle for <$100k / year.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    Who is gonna buy the stuff the factory makes if all the jobs have been deleted by automation?
    - jkic47 2y ago
      Developing economies purchase a lot from the west. Germany and Japan have export-oriented stances because their local markets are developed to the point that local growth is slow...

century19 2y ago

Don't worry. There is plenty to be done. These stories come up every few years. Previously it was outsourcing to India, or low-code tooling, etc. AI can make you more productive but there will still be plenty of jobs.

stuckinhell 2y ago
This isn't the case anymore
- smithcoin 2y ago
  > citation needed
some_random 2y ago
When's the last time you've been on the job market as an early career professional?

jabroni_salad 2y ago

I graduated into the 09 recession and things worked out after awhile. Slumps just come and go. Try not to focus on all the present day doomers.

gavinray 2y ago

If you're an exceptional engineer, job prospects are still there. Find some specialization/niche you're interested in software wise, and start learning + building in public about it. Engage with the community of said niche. After several years of this, you should be fairly well known and have a blog/GitHub with content that suggests you're not entirely inept Then use your network to get a job in said niche

giraffe_lady 2y ago
> Find some specialization/niche you're interested in software wise, and start learning + building in public about it. This is a very different and mostly non-overlapping skillset compared to focused product engineering at a company. I believe it's a good way to get you there if you have the time and drive to develop those skills. But then if you do are you going to be satisfied with the prize being a job where you don't use them? I'm not discounting this as effective, I just don't think it can work for very many people for several different reasons.
- gavinray 2y ago
  I suppose it depends on what your interests are, that's true.

donatj 2y ago

When I was starting college twenty years ago, the prevailing sentiment was all programming jobs were going to be outsourced and that getting a CS degree was a fool's errand. I literally had a guidance counselor try to talk me out of it. I did it anyway. When I finished in 2006, there was a real vacuum in the developer space, presumably because everyone got the same advice I did, and jobs were relatively easy to find. By about 2008 there was just no one. We had open developer positions for months with zero applicants. I have seen vacuums and gluts come and go. My advice is just if you are interested, go for it. The market will come around.

stevev 2y ago
True. However the future may be different if the government doesn’t make changes. It’s easier and cheaper to now hire off-shore devs than Americans. There goes your pay raises and jobs or competitive salaries.

kspacewalk2 2y ago

Timing worked out very well, then. The best time to take yourself off the market for a year or two and get a degree is when there's a slump.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

Seems like the right call. I had a few friends who graduated in 2002. Some of them tried and failed to find a job straight out of Uni, and that really screwed them. They started working retail to keep food on their table and then they were somebody with no relevant experience but not really suitable for the new grad hiring pipeline. OTOH those who went into the master's program in 2002 were fine, they came out a couple of years later when the market was hot.

ta988 2y ago

Make sure you develop skills outside of CS. Pure CS are in for a rough ride.