6 ms·

tips should be banned not only is it a shitty source of income, it also exposes you to sexism, racism and makes you tolerate shit things, because your income c

tips should be banned not only is it a shitty source of income, it also exposes you to sexism, racism and makes you tolerate shit things, because your income could be at risk standing up for yourself.

throw_m239339 2y ago
In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...
- maximinus_thrax 2y ago
  No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.
  - hunter2_ 2y ago
    At counters, the tip happens before the service is provided, unless you're somehow basing the amount on the experience of ordering.
  - beaglesss 2y ago
    Tip 0 and see what kind of service you get the next time. I used to work food delivery and naturally the customers ordering takeout at fancy restaurants would always tip 0 to the restaurant even if they tipped me for delivery. I quickly found myself ignored by all the workers at those restaurants, orders take an hour extra to fill, no one talk to me, etc. eventually I learned to tip out of my own tip because my next service is contingent on the prior tip.
    - rangerelf 2y ago
      Because here in the US the tip is considered part of their salary. No tip? You're not paying them for their work, it's no wonder they're ignoring you. And that can only be fixed with legislation.
    - gibbitz 2y ago
      I live in an affluent area and my daughter works in food service. She says the people she knows to be wealthy are generally the worst tippers (often 0%). I have stuck with 15% even though that is below the suggestions on receipts these days and she tells me that's high for the restaurant's average.
  - piperswe 2y ago
    I find it amusing that this definition of bribe and gratuity makes DoorDash "tips" actually be bribes, which is an apt description.
  - rangerelf 2y ago
    "Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe. Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep their jobs. It might not be identical to the situation of a water at a café, but jeez, does it rhyme with it. Tipping should be banned. Waitstaff at a restaurant should be considered like any other employee. Tipping someone because they went "above and beyond" should be considered as an insult, because it's literally a bribe, "I'll give you something extra for your trouble". Alas, it's a bit too idealistic of me to expect that to happen.
    - unethical_ban 2y ago
      No. The definition of bribe applies to instances where law or merit are overridden by money or favors.
      - beaglesss 2y ago
        Many cases it's not to override law per se as it is to make someone care to follow the law and issue your paperwork. US law actually carved out businesses can "bribe" foreign governments for access to services to entice foreign government worker execute their laws.
      - rangerelf 2y ago
        It's not, or at least not always. Most of the time it's to get them to actually do their job; shitty pay, bad or nonexistent oversight, corruption (or just "bribes") in higher levels too, conditionally applied rules, etc... That creates a de-facto auction for their time and service, you (and what you're adding on top) vs. everyone else (and what they are adding on top). There's an unofficial "price list" depending on how quick and thorough you want things to be done. "Tipping culture" easily slides into "bribing culture" when it becomes an expectation, regardless of what the Supreme Court says about it.
    - gibbitz 2y ago
  - iwontberude 2y ago
    Let's be real. You are creating a conflict of interest. If I take "tips" from my customers, my employer would be pissed. The only reason we are considering this to not be corruption is because it's a system foisted on them by management to reduce their costs. In more egregious instances in food service I saw employees trade goods for tips quid-pro-quo and cut the business entirely out of the transaction.
  - II2II 2y ago
    I work for the government and we are not allowed to accept tips. Even if there is a technical difference between a bribe and a gratuity, it is too easy to misconstrue a tip as a bribe (by either or both parties) and it is too easy to frame a bribe as a tip.
    - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
      Have them update the guidelines; the SCOTUS ruled in your favor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States
  - theogravity 2y ago
    There are plenty of situations where you pay up front and fill in the tip before service is actually rendered. I've had situations where I tip the standard and get bad service (eg missed side orders).
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    > based on the quality of the service provide It should be based on quality of service, or at least on some service being provided, but what has now become the norm is the expectation that you pay a tip (and a hefty percentage one, not just a dollar in the tip jar) just for buying a food item at the counter, with zero service provided.
  - jen20 2y ago
    > Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided. Based on this, almost everyone using a Stripe/Toast/whatever terminal is accepting a bribe, not a tip.
    - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
      Yes, that is correct.
  - nitwit005 2y ago
    It's 100% a socially accepted form of bribery. It's irrelevant if you pay people before or after. You can't tip the police after they perform some sort of service. You're still trying to influence them with money.
next_xibalba 2y ago
Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  I have; I worked in an ice cream stand at a dairy farm. And you're correct, because of the tips we made much more than we would have even if we had had a higher wage. But to the point of the person you replied to, on the busy days, there would be two of us working. We were free to split labor however we liked. We made far more tips when it was my attractive, female, coworker taking orders and interacting with the customers, and me scooping, than the other way around. People absolutely do tip differently based on their biases regarding the worker they are interacting with.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago
  Potentially very stupid question: should I add a tip % on my invoices as a freelance developer?
  - arealaccount 2y ago
    You should also be tipping your landlord I hear
  - next_xibalba 2y ago
    I know this is supposed to be funny, but it is so non sequitur as to be uninterpretable. What are you getting at?
    - manuelmoreale 2y ago
      I’m not getting at anything. I’m literally asking if you think I should be adding a % tip to my invoices as a freelance dev. And if the answer is no, why not? I’m providing a service after all am I not?

throw_m239339 2y ago

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

maximinus_thrax 2y ago
No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.
- hunter2_ 2y ago
  At counters, the tip happens before the service is provided, unless you're somehow basing the amount on the experience of ordering.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  Tip 0 and see what kind of service you get the next time. I used to work food delivery and naturally the customers ordering takeout at fancy restaurants would always tip 0 to the restaurant even if they tipped me for delivery. I quickly found myself ignored by all the workers at those restaurants, orders take an hour extra to fill, no one talk to me, etc. eventually I learned to tip out of my own tip because my next service is contingent on the prior tip.
  - rangerelf 2y ago
    Because here in the US the tip is considered part of their salary. No tip? You're not paying them for their work, it's no wonder they're ignoring you. And that can only be fixed with legislation.
  - gibbitz 2y ago
    I live in an affluent area and my daughter works in food service. She says the people she knows to be wealthy are generally the worst tippers (often 0%). I have stuck with 15% even though that is below the suggestions on receipts these days and she tells me that's high for the restaurant's average.
- piperswe 2y ago
  I find it amusing that this definition of bribe and gratuity makes DoorDash "tips" actually be bribes, which is an apt description.
- rangerelf 2y ago
  "Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe. Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep their jobs. It might not be identical to the situation of a water at a café, but jeez, does it rhyme with it. Tipping should be banned. Waitstaff at a restaurant should be considered like any other employee. Tipping someone because they went "above and beyond" should be considered as an insult, because it's literally a bribe, "I'll give you something extra for your trouble". Alas, it's a bit too idealistic of me to expect that to happen.
  - unethical_ban 2y ago
    No. The definition of bribe applies to instances where law or merit are overridden by money or favors.
    - beaglesss 2y ago
      Many cases it's not to override law per se as it is to make someone care to follow the law and issue your paperwork. US law actually carved out businesses can "bribe" foreign governments for access to services to entice foreign government worker execute their laws.
    - rangerelf 2y ago
      It's not, or at least not always. Most of the time it's to get them to actually do their job; shitty pay, bad or nonexistent oversight, corruption (or just "bribes") in higher levels too, conditionally applied rules, etc... That creates a de-facto auction for their time and service, you (and what you're adding on top) vs. everyone else (and what they are adding on top). There's an unofficial "price list" depending on how quick and thorough you want things to be done. "Tipping culture" easily slides into "bribing culture" when it becomes an expectation, regardless of what the Supreme Court says about it.
  - gibbitz 2y ago
- iwontberude 2y ago
  Let's be real. You are creating a conflict of interest. If I take "tips" from my customers, my employer would be pissed. The only reason we are considering this to not be corruption is because it's a system foisted on them by management to reduce their costs. In more egregious instances in food service I saw employees trade goods for tips quid-pro-quo and cut the business entirely out of the transaction.
- II2II 2y ago
  I work for the government and we are not allowed to accept tips. Even if there is a technical difference between a bribe and a gratuity, it is too easy to misconstrue a tip as a bribe (by either or both parties) and it is too easy to frame a bribe as a tip.
  - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
    Have them update the guidelines; the SCOTUS ruled in your favor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States
- theogravity 2y ago
  There are plenty of situations where you pay up front and fill in the tip before service is actually rendered. I've had situations where I tip the standard and get bad service (eg missed side orders).
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  > based on the quality of the service provide It should be based on quality of service, or at least on some service being provided, but what has now become the norm is the expectation that you pay a tip (and a hefty percentage one, not just a dollar in the tip jar) just for buying a food item at the counter, with zero service provided.
- jen20 2y ago
  > Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided. Based on this, almost everyone using a Stripe/Toast/whatever terminal is accepting a bribe, not a tip.
  - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
    Yes, that is correct.
- nitwit005 2y ago
  It's 100% a socially accepted form of bribery. It's irrelevant if you pay people before or after. You can't tip the police after they perform some sort of service. You're still trying to influence them with money.

next_xibalba 2y ago

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

margalabargala 2y ago
I have; I worked in an ice cream stand at a dairy farm. And you're correct, because of the tips we made much more than we would have even if we had had a higher wage. But to the point of the person you replied to, on the busy days, there would be two of us working. We were free to split labor however we liked. We made far more tips when it was my attractive, female, coworker taking orders and interacting with the customers, and me scooping, than the other way around. People absolutely do tip differently based on their biases regarding the worker they are interacting with.
manuelmoreale 2y ago
Potentially very stupid question: should I add a tip % on my invoices as a freelance developer?
- arealaccount 2y ago
  You should also be tipping your landlord I hear
- next_xibalba 2y ago
  I know this is supposed to be funny, but it is so non sequitur as to be uninterpretable. What are you getting at?
  - manuelmoreale 2y ago
    I’m not getting at anything. I’m literally asking if you think I should be adding a % tip to my invoices as a freelance dev. And if the answer is no, why not? I’m providing a service after all am I not?