7 ms·

Mozilla removes telemetry service Adjust from mobile Firefox versions

43 points by ReadCarlBarks 2y ago

WD-42 2y ago
Lots of movement around Firefox lately. The possibility of the google money going away as a result of the antitrust ruling must be really shaking them to the core over at Mozilla.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > possibility of the google money going away That Mozilla seems to actually give a shit about something for the first time in decades speaks volumes to how anticompetitive that deal was.
  - stavros 2y ago
    I'm out of the loop here, can someone explain?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - bluGill 2y ago
      All of the funding for Firefox (or nearly all?) comes from Google. There is no way for you as a private person to donate money to firefox development. That of course means that Mozilla needs to keep its large donner happy lest the money go away.
      - nickthegreek 2y ago
        On top of that, the recent google monopoly ruling means that most likely Google cannot continue to donate the massive chunk of change yearly to firefox that they have been. That could mean the death of firefox.
        stavros 2y ago
        Oh wow, how have I not heard of this? I assume Firefox can still strike some deal for revenue sharing of people who choose to use Google on Firefox, though? Or was the money purely for having Google be the default?
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        The money was for setting the default.
        stavros 2y ago
        Oof, RIP Firefox...
  - mozempthrowaway 2y ago
    Without that deal, there wouldn’t be a Firefox. If/when it’s gone, there’s no one capable/willing to fund Mozilla to that amount. Really there’s only 1 other company who can throw that level of money at us and it’s Microsoft. Without Google bidding up the price, doubtful they would pay as much for Bing to be the default search and it’s not like Firefox users would welcome that change. Free software doesn’t work for long without some sort of corporate sponsorship at some point, and it’s not in anyone’s interest to fund it at this point. (And don’t say “the EU should” most Europeans are not clamoring for their governments to spend money on an American browser company with web compatibility issues that no one tests against)
    - dylan604 2y ago
      > Really there’s only 1 other company who can throw that level of money at us and it’s Microsoft. Doesn't Apple have that kind of money in a big vault that Tim Apple gets to do his Scrooge McDuck impersonation into?
    - godzillabrennus 2y ago
      There is a good book on how non profits are terribly handicapped by the current system: https://www.amazon.com/Uncharitable-Restraints-Nonprofits-Undermine-Potential-ebook/dp/B0BDSN77FV?dplnkId=f8076618-fab5-40b6-9d45-a781b430b5fe&nodl=1 https://www.amazon.com/Uncharitable-Restraints-Nonprofits-Un...
    - jlarocco 2y ago
      The problem with Mozzilla is that they don’t just fund development, they have control of it and they receive almost all funding from a direct competitor with a horrible privacy record. I trust FSF, Debian, Linux Foundation, etc. not to violate my privacy. Clearly the same cannot be said for Mozilla.
    - Rattay 2y ago
      'clamoring' No, they're most certainly not. And I'm more than willing to believe the legal difficulties of the foundation would be a nightmare, but would an EU sponsored fork of some kind be such a terrible idea? A move of headquarters to a suitable city and so on. Remove the tracking, maybe even a few mandates to offer it up in certain settings that receive EU funding already. An interesting idea even if sadly unlikely.
Vinnl 2y ago
> Mozilla watcher Sören Hentzschel points out [1] that the release notes do not indicate that this service collects data. This means that end users were not aware that the service was forwarding data to Mozilla, which is remarkable for a browser provider that claims to value (data) privacy. I don't think the second sentence can/should be inferred from the first. Just the fact that the removal isn't called out in the release notes, doesn't mean that users weren't informed about it when it was present. There's probably something to be said about whether it was mentioned clearly enough (and on whether it should have been present in the first place), but the release notes of a future version is not where I'd expect to find information about data collection. (I work for Mozilla, but not on Firefox and wasn't involved with this.) [1] https://www.soeren-hentzschel.at/firefox-android/mozilla-entfernt-adjust-android-und-apple-ios/ https://www.soeren-hentzschel.at/firefox-android/mozilla-ent...
- onli 2y ago
  It's a complete mistranslation of what Sören wrote. He just noted the missing change log entry, as you said.
debacle 2y ago
Every large non-profit in the tech/software space eventually becomes a non-profit that happens to do software, rather than a software organization incorporated as a non-profit. Wikimedia, Mozilla, Canonical, etc.
- Vinnl 2y ago
  I don't think Canonical ever was a non-profit.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rvz 2y ago
So Firefox had spyware all this time in their iOS and Android apps? Not a surprise here despite them being 80% dependent on Google's money, they could not help introduce spyware in their browser and preach 'privacy-first'. They were never a 'privacy-first browser' after taking Google's money and refusing to remove their dependence from them.
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  Of course they were never a 'privacy-first browser', it was always clear for anyone who paid attention. They just looked around one day, noticed that every single competitor was atrocious at privacy when compared with Firefox and incorporated that into their marketing messaging and further development plans - which only happened fairly recently.
jlarocco 2y ago
It’s really disappointing that they even had this, and is a perfect example of Mozilla selling out users to Google, as if it weren’t obvious before. Really no reason to use Firefox over Chromium or Safari as far as I can see. I’ve had good luck with Orion on mobile.
- ensignavenger 2y ago
  I use Firefox primarily to support an independent rendering engine. I also like the extensions offered by Firefox more than any other browser. But I would love to see a better managed, user focused fork of it. Time will tell, but for now I am using Firefox until a better alternative comes along.
  - mozempthrowaway 2y ago
    The rendering engine portion of the whole Firefox vs Chrome debate gets way more attention than it should. It’s really not that important. Someone could fork any piece of the chromium project and have an “independent rendering engine/browser” without all the problems gecko has from a decade of little market share and under investment. Google nor Mozilla make money from their rendering engines as is evidenced by their ability to make money on iOS. Also, the rendering engine isn’t the way Google is being anticompetitive or violating users privacy, just like no one is really that worried that Google, Facebook, and MS are some of the largest contributors to the Linux kernel. People use a chromium based browser because chromium is better. Google gets people to use Chrome, and gets their data through the code they add on top. Overall though, Google has not been a bad steward of Blink.
    - ensignavenger 2y ago
      I respectfully disagree as I think the independant rendering engine doesn't get enough attention. But we all ahve our own priorities. I also do not feel like Chromium/Blink is really superior. But again, different priorities.
      - 2y ago
nonbarx 2y ago
(2024) Question: Is it "true" that company's may use a link-shortener-service and within a link they send you, hiding their ruling that you have automatically accepted their tracking-"cookie-policy" (for example in agreeing their TOS before)? Sry, non native english speaker... regards
montroser 2y ago
Speaking of mobile Firefox, they're pursuing this abomination of a UI update for Android too: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/updates-to-android-navigation/td-p/62811 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/updates-to-androi...
techjamie 2y ago
Personally, I'll judge how worried they are about money by how much the CEO's pay changes. Constantly acting like they're about to be on the rocks when their CEO is taking home almost $7m in compensation per year is laughable, especially considering they made less than $1m for much of Mozilla's lifetime, and their raise to $2m made headlines not that many years ago.
- anotherhue 2y ago
  And they fired the engineers who were actually working on the product. $7m is a nice product team that many startups would kill for. Fire the CEO. Drop all but 2/3 products. Get off the pot.
snapplebobapple 2y ago
I really wish librewolf would make a version of the firefox beta android apk...

43 points by ReadCarlBarks 2y ago

Lots of movement around Firefox lately. The possibility of the google money going away as a result of the antitrust ruling must be really shaking them to the core over at Mozilla.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> possibility of the google money going away That Mozilla seems to actually give a shit about something for the first time in decades speaks volumes to how anticompetitive that deal was.
- stavros 2y ago
  I'm out of the loop here, can someone explain?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - bluGill 2y ago
    All of the funding for Firefox (or nearly all?) comes from Google. There is no way for you as a private person to donate money to firefox development. That of course means that Mozilla needs to keep its large donner happy lest the money go away.
    - nickthegreek 2y ago
      On top of that, the recent google monopoly ruling means that most likely Google cannot continue to donate the massive chunk of change yearly to firefox that they have been. That could mean the death of firefox.
      - stavros 2y ago
        Oh wow, how have I not heard of this? I assume Firefox can still strike some deal for revenue sharing of people who choose to use Google on Firefox, though? Or was the money purely for having Google be the default?
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        The money was for setting the default.
        stavros 2y ago
        Oof, RIP Firefox...
- mozempthrowaway 2y ago
  Without that deal, there wouldn’t be a Firefox. If/when it’s gone, there’s no one capable/willing to fund Mozilla to that amount. Really there’s only 1 other company who can throw that level of money at us and it’s Microsoft. Without Google bidding up the price, doubtful they would pay as much for Bing to be the default search and it’s not like Firefox users would welcome that change. Free software doesn’t work for long without some sort of corporate sponsorship at some point, and it’s not in anyone’s interest to fund it at this point. (And don’t say “the EU should” most Europeans are not clamoring for their governments to spend money on an American browser company with web compatibility issues that no one tests against)
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > Really there’s only 1 other company who can throw that level of money at us and it’s Microsoft. Doesn't Apple have that kind of money in a big vault that Tim Apple gets to do his Scrooge McDuck impersonation into?
  - godzillabrennus 2y ago
    There is a good book on how non profits are terribly handicapped by the current system: https://www.amazon.com/Uncharitable-Restraints-Nonprofits-Undermine-Potential-ebook/dp/B0BDSN77FV?dplnkId=f8076618-fab5-40b6-9d45-a781b430b5fe&nodl=1 https://www.amazon.com/Uncharitable-Restraints-Nonprofits-Un...
  - jlarocco 2y ago
    The problem with Mozzilla is that they don’t just fund development, they have control of it and they receive almost all funding from a direct competitor with a horrible privacy record. I trust FSF, Debian, Linux Foundation, etc. not to violate my privacy. Clearly the same cannot be said for Mozilla.
  - Rattay 2y ago
    'clamoring' No, they're most certainly not. And I'm more than willing to believe the legal difficulties of the foundation would be a nightmare, but would an EU sponsored fork of some kind be such a terrible idea? A move of headquarters to a suitable city and so on. Remove the tracking, maybe even a few mandates to offer it up in certain settings that receive EU funding already. An interesting idea even if sadly unlikely.

Vinnl 2y ago

> Mozilla watcher Sören Hentzschel points out [1] that the release notes do not indicate that this service collects data. This means that end users were not aware that the service was forwarding data to Mozilla, which is remarkable for a browser provider that claims to value (data) privacy. I don't think the second sentence can/should be inferred from the first. Just the fact that the removal isn't called out in the release notes, doesn't mean that users weren't informed about it when it was present. There's probably something to be said about whether it was mentioned clearly enough (and on whether it should have been present in the first place), but the release notes of a future version is not where I'd expect to find information about data collection. (I work for Mozilla, but not on Firefox and wasn't involved with this.) [1] https://www.soeren-hentzschel.at/firefox-android/mozilla-entfernt-adjust-android-und-apple-ios/ https://www.soeren-hentzschel.at/firefox-android/mozilla-ent...

onli 2y ago
It's a complete mistranslation of what Sören wrote. He just noted the missing change log entry, as you said.

debacle 2y ago

Every large non-profit in the tech/software space eventually becomes a non-profit that happens to do software, rather than a software organization incorporated as a non-profit. Wikimedia, Mozilla, Canonical, etc.

Vinnl 2y ago
I don't think Canonical ever was a non-profit.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

rvz 2y ago

So Firefox had spyware all this time in their iOS and Android apps? Not a surprise here despite them being 80% dependent on Google's money, they could not help introduce spyware in their browser and preach 'privacy-first'. They were never a 'privacy-first browser' after taking Google's money and refusing to remove their dependence from them.

seba_dos1 2y ago
Of course they were never a 'privacy-first browser', it was always clear for anyone who paid attention. They just looked around one day, noticed that every single competitor was atrocious at privacy when compared with Firefox and incorporated that into their marketing messaging and further development plans - which only happened fairly recently.

jlarocco 2y ago

It’s really disappointing that they even had this, and is a perfect example of Mozilla selling out users to Google, as if it weren’t obvious before. Really no reason to use Firefox over Chromium or Safari as far as I can see. I’ve had good luck with Orion on mobile.

ensignavenger 2y ago
I use Firefox primarily to support an independent rendering engine. I also like the extensions offered by Firefox more than any other browser. But I would love to see a better managed, user focused fork of it. Time will tell, but for now I am using Firefox until a better alternative comes along.
- mozempthrowaway 2y ago
  The rendering engine portion of the whole Firefox vs Chrome debate gets way more attention than it should. It’s really not that important. Someone could fork any piece of the chromium project and have an “independent rendering engine/browser” without all the problems gecko has from a decade of little market share and under investment. Google nor Mozilla make money from their rendering engines as is evidenced by their ability to make money on iOS. Also, the rendering engine isn’t the way Google is being anticompetitive or violating users privacy, just like no one is really that worried that Google, Facebook, and MS are some of the largest contributors to the Linux kernel. People use a chromium based browser because chromium is better. Google gets people to use Chrome, and gets their data through the code they add on top. Overall though, Google has not been a bad steward of Blink.
  - ensignavenger 2y ago
    I respectfully disagree as I think the independant rendering engine doesn't get enough attention. But we all ahve our own priorities. I also do not feel like Chromium/Blink is really superior. But again, different priorities.
    - 2y ago

nonbarx 2y ago

(2024) Question: Is it "true" that company's may use a link-shortener-service and within a link they send you, hiding their ruling that you have automatically accepted their tracking-"cookie-policy" (for example in agreeing their TOS before)? Sry, non native english speaker... regards

montroser 2y ago

Speaking of mobile Firefox, they're pursuing this abomination of a UI update for Android too: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/updates-to-android-navigation/td-p/62811 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/updates-to-androi...

techjamie 2y ago

Personally, I'll judge how worried they are about money by how much the CEO's pay changes. Constantly acting like they're about to be on the rocks when their CEO is taking home almost $7m in compensation per year is laughable, especially considering they made less than $1m for much of Mozilla's lifetime, and their raise to $2m made headlines not that many years ago.

anotherhue 2y ago
And they fired the engineers who were actually working on the product. $7m is a nice product team that many startups would kill for. Fire the CEO. Drop all but 2/3 products. Get off the pot.

snapplebobapple 2y ago

I really wish librewolf would make a version of the firefox beta android apk...