9 ms·

When Nothing Ever Goes Out of Print: Maintaining Backlist Ebooks (2016)

110 points by tomodachi94 2y ago

drakonka 2y ago
I only skimmed this, have not yet read in great detail, but it made me think about backlists in indie publishing. This is a thing for self-published authors as well, only we tend to take a more optimistic view on the backlist: a large backlist is more of a benefit than a challenge. It is necessary to keep putting out new books of course to get new visibility, but income stability comes not from readers buying your shiny new book - it comes from them buying _all of your other books_ after they read and enjoy the shiny new book. The backlist is generally considered king for a sustainable self-publishing career. It does come with maintenance, however. As the post mentions, my early books are just not very good. Heck my new books are not very good either, but they're better than my early books. Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be refreshed once in a while. It is work - but a large backlist is in the end what keeps you afloat.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be refreshed once in a while. Why? The reader understand that they are from another time.
  - drakonka 2y ago
    Genre fiction readers usually do not want something that obviously comes from another time. They want something that is just unique enough to catch the eye, but largely similar to whatever cover trends are currently popular.
    - dsr_ 2y ago
      I think you completely misunderstand. The people who want to read the complete Travis McGee series don't want updated covers. They want complete metadata and good search tools, so they can figure out that The Long Lavender Look comes before A Tan and Sandy Silence. The folks who are trying to hunt down ebooks of all the non-Fleming James Bond novels don't care much about the covers. And if your epub reader software doesn't allow you to change the CSS to your own preferences, it's badly under-featured. "Obviously comes from another time" is either a non-issue or a feature, not a bug.
      - drakonka 2y ago
        I'm sure this is true for some (maybe even many) readers, but this simply is not reflective of the larger genre fiction market today. Most genre fiction authors, even those making a great living, are not writing the next Travis McGee - they're writing thrillers, mysteries, or romance series that will not get Wikipedia pages or be turned into TV adaptations. Readers will not discover their books thinking "Oh yeah, Series X by that Obscure Author Y, I want to read that specifically." Instead, they will stumble across a book in their chosen genre on their Amazon search (or top 100 list) or a BookBub promo. At best, they'll see a recommendation on TikTok or a readers facebook group. Hopefully that book will catch their interest with a solid on-market cover and blurb. They will read it, and then (hopefully) check out the rest of the author's backlist from there - judging those books' blurbs and covers as well. If the author is lucky and skilled, the reader will turn into a superfan and sign up for their newsletter, making it easier to sell them new books in the future.
        cxr 2y ago
        Cool story. What are you actually arguing for/against here?
        drakonka 2y ago
        I was replying to a comment I disagree with as part of this discussion thread, explaining why I don't think it is entirely reflective of reality. I suggest reading that comment for the context.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - squidbeak 2y ago
    The same reason you repaint your fence occasionally.
    - ses1984 2y ago
      Your covers lose their protective coating and will rot due to moisture?
      - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
        That's not what they meant, but... yes, I suppose that is something that could happen to a book cover.
daveoc64 2y ago
A very interesting read! Hyperlinks are a particularly challenging area.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cxr 2y ago
  It's not that hard. PURLs and DOIs have been around for a long time.
yew 2y ago
[flagged]
alexey-salmin 2y ago
> And here is a lovely classic children’s book — from 1960 — that’s about two little girls, and a witch, who has a baby, and a spelling bee, an actual bee that spells things. And there’s a minor part of the story where the girls are putting on their Halloween costumes, and one is a witch, and the other is “a little Chinese girl … and she had makeup on her face.” > I think we agree at this point that a nationality is not a super-cool Halloween costume, but I’m not clear on whether Clarissa’s putting on yellowface or has just borrowed her mother’s lipstick. And so how do we handle this? This is not Huckleberry Finn — it’s not a book about race, where we talk about the history and the controversy. Should we be concerned with this type of incidental racism in an ebook that we’re selling today, one that looks just like the new, and hopefully more enlightened, children’s ebooks we’re publishing in 2015? That's something I never understood: rewriting books from the past to match recent cultural trends. What happened happened, whether you like it or not. (I also don't really get the Halloween costume controversy, but I acknowledge there's something to debate there, unlike with the history-rewriting topic which is just dumb).
- freddie_mercury 2y ago
  You really don't understand why editors decided to rename Agatha Christie's 1939 book Ten Little Niggers in 1985? Or is that a "recent cultural trend" where you can understand why publishers followed the trend and made a change? Because once someone admits that change was okay, it's no longer a question of principles and just a series of judgment calls that different people will make differently. Publishers make changes to ensure books keep selling. They are human and don't always make the right decision. But they aren't doing it for any reason other than profit. My daughters are Asian I wouldn't buy them a children's book where "be Chinese" is considered an acceptable Halloween costume. The publishers would probably prefer I consider purchasing it.
  - cxr 2y ago
    > 1985 You mean 1940. (Its original publication in the US.) > Because once someone admits that change was okay You seem to be going with the assumption that everyone is on board—that they agree that that change was okay (had it actually happened, that is).
djoldman 2y ago
> And sometimes we’re not sure if what we’re seeing even is an error. The following passage, from Philip K. Dick, displays a lot of creative use of language, but the “zommed” in the third line — while matching the print book — seems a bit suspect. Should it be “zoomed”? How can we know? Strictly for possible typos: if the author is alive, ask them, otherwise leave it. > Sometimes a book is completely accurate at the time of publication, but becomes factually inaccurate over time, giving the wrong dates for the beginning of daylight saving time or an incorrect planetary status for Pluto. > Should we fix these factual errors? Do we need the author’s input? What if the author is dead, the agent is retired, and the editor has left the company? Should we fix them silently or with some kind of editorial note? > Then there’s the case where the content of a book is not incorrect, per se, but may have become outmoded or offensive.... What do you do here? Do you update the language that’s incidental to the content of the book? Does it matter who you think is buying this — whether it’s people who want the diet advice or people who are researching the historic participation of Asian Americans in diet programs? No. A book should capture an author's intent/concept/idea at the time it was written and those intents/concepts/ideas should be frozen.
- shagie 2y ago
  Back in college, I recall a professor saying that German students of philosophy would learn English to be able to read Nietzsche in translation rather than as it was written. (Upon reflection, it might have been Kant - https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/28743 https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/28743 ) My latin was too rusty to be able to read Meditations on First Philosophy as it was written. ( https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 ). A translation from Latin to English ( https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosop... ) necessarily changes those intents/concepts/ideas into those that the reader is more familiar with. A translation from English of 1000 AD to 2000 AD has the same necessary changes http://www.hieronymus.us.com/latinweb/Mediaevum/Beowulf.htm http://www.hieronymus.us.com/latinweb/Mediaevum/Beowulf.htm Is it ok to read Liu Cixin's work 三体 as Ken Liu's translation known to the English speaking word as The Three-Body Problem? Or should I learn Chinese and immerse myself in the culture of China in order to read it with those intents / concepts / ideas as things frozen on paper? There are two problems - the book captured at its time may not be accessible anymore. Secondly, even if you can read the words it may be that the words those concepts map to in today's language are not the concepts that the author intended. So... how short of a time frame is not not acceptable to read the work in translation? I hold that a translation across time is not really any different than a translation of a modern work across languages and cultures.
b112 2y ago
Before ebooks, a bunch of friends and I used to memorize the full contents of a book, each. We'd then destroy the books.
- nervysnail 2y ago
  Were they radical political books? Erotica?
  - bombcar 2y ago
    Statistically the most likely book is The Very Hungry Caterpillar which most children memorize and then destroy.
thebeardisred 2y ago
Especially apropos that the first link in the article is a 404.
franga2000 2y ago
> And once you have the right to make an ebook, that right may comes with certain stipulations, like the illustrator gets to approve it, or you must disable text-to-speech Disable TTS? Can you please fucking not?? E-books were such a huge step forward for accessibility, now lawyers are here to ruin it all...

110 points by tomodachi94 2y ago

I only skimmed this, have not yet read in great detail, but it made me think about backlists in indie publishing. This is a thing for self-published authors as well, only we tend to take a more optimistic view on the backlist: a large backlist is more of a benefit than a challenge. It is necessary to keep putting out new books of course to get new visibility, but income stability comes not from readers buying your shiny new book - it comes from them buying _all of your other books_ after they read and enjoy the shiny new book. The backlist is generally considered king for a sustainable self-publishing career. It does come with maintenance, however. As the post mentions, my early books are just not very good. Heck my new books are not very good either, but they're better than my early books. Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be refreshed once in a while. It is work - but a large backlist is in the end what keeps you afloat.

carlosjobim 2y ago
> Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be refreshed once in a while. Why? The reader understand that they are from another time.
- drakonka 2y ago
  Genre fiction readers usually do not want something that obviously comes from another time. They want something that is just unique enough to catch the eye, but largely similar to whatever cover trends are currently popular.
  - dsr_ 2y ago
    I think you completely misunderstand. The people who want to read the complete Travis McGee series don't want updated covers. They want complete metadata and good search tools, so they can figure out that The Long Lavender Look comes before A Tan and Sandy Silence. The folks who are trying to hunt down ebooks of all the non-Fleming James Bond novels don't care much about the covers. And if your epub reader software doesn't allow you to change the CSS to your own preferences, it's badly under-featured. "Obviously comes from another time" is either a non-issue or a feature, not a bug.
    - drakonka 2y ago
      I'm sure this is true for some (maybe even many) readers, but this simply is not reflective of the larger genre fiction market today. Most genre fiction authors, even those making a great living, are not writing the next Travis McGee - they're writing thrillers, mysteries, or romance series that will not get Wikipedia pages or be turned into TV adaptations. Readers will not discover their books thinking "Oh yeah, Series X by that Obscure Author Y, I want to read that specifically." Instead, they will stumble across a book in their chosen genre on their Amazon search (or top 100 list) or a BookBub promo. At best, they'll see a recommendation on TikTok or a readers facebook group. Hopefully that book will catch their interest with a solid on-market cover and blurb. They will read it, and then (hopefully) check out the rest of the author's backlist from there - judging those books' blurbs and covers as well. If the author is lucky and skilled, the reader will turn into a superfan and sign up for their newsletter, making it easier to sell them new books in the future.
      - cxr 2y ago
        Cool story. What are you actually arguing for/against here?
        drakonka 2y ago
        I was replying to a comment I disagree with as part of this discussion thread, explaining why I don't think it is entirely reflective of reality. I suggest reading that comment for the context.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- squidbeak 2y ago
  The same reason you repaint your fence occasionally.
  - ses1984 2y ago
    Your covers lose their protective coating and will rot due to moisture?
    - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
      That's not what they meant, but... yes, I suppose that is something that could happen to a book cover.

daveoc64 2y ago

A very interesting read! Hyperlinks are a particularly challenging area.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cxr 2y ago
It's not that hard. PURLs and DOIs have been around for a long time.

yew 2y ago

[flagged]

alexey-salmin 2y ago

> And here is a lovely classic children’s book — from 1960 — that’s about two little girls, and a witch, who has a baby, and a spelling bee, an actual bee that spells things. And there’s a minor part of the story where the girls are putting on their Halloween costumes, and one is a witch, and the other is “a little Chinese girl … and she had makeup on her face.” > I think we agree at this point that a nationality is not a super-cool Halloween costume, but I’m not clear on whether Clarissa’s putting on yellowface or has just borrowed her mother’s lipstick. And so how do we handle this? This is not Huckleberry Finn — it’s not a book about race, where we talk about the history and the controversy. Should we be concerned with this type of incidental racism in an ebook that we’re selling today, one that looks just like the new, and hopefully more enlightened, children’s ebooks we’re publishing in 2015? That's something I never understood: rewriting books from the past to match recent cultural trends. What happened happened, whether you like it or not. (I also don't really get the Halloween costume controversy, but I acknowledge there's something to debate there, unlike with the history-rewriting topic which is just dumb).

freddie_mercury 2y ago
You really don't understand why editors decided to rename Agatha Christie's 1939 book Ten Little Niggers in 1985? Or is that a "recent cultural trend" where you can understand why publishers followed the trend and made a change? Because once someone admits that change was okay, it's no longer a question of principles and just a series of judgment calls that different people will make differently. Publishers make changes to ensure books keep selling. They are human and don't always make the right decision. But they aren't doing it for any reason other than profit. My daughters are Asian I wouldn't buy them a children's book where "be Chinese" is considered an acceptable Halloween costume. The publishers would probably prefer I consider purchasing it.
- cxr 2y ago
  > 1985 You mean 1940. (Its original publication in the US.) > Because once someone admits that change was okay You seem to be going with the assumption that everyone is on board—that they agree that that change was okay (had it actually happened, that is).

djoldman 2y ago

> And sometimes we’re not sure if what we’re seeing even is an error. The following passage, from Philip K. Dick, displays a lot of creative use of language, but the “zommed” in the third line — while matching the print book — seems a bit suspect. Should it be “zoomed”? How can we know? Strictly for possible typos: if the author is alive, ask them, otherwise leave it. > Sometimes a book is completely accurate at the time of publication, but becomes factually inaccurate over time, giving the wrong dates for the beginning of daylight saving time or an incorrect planetary status for Pluto. > Should we fix these factual errors? Do we need the author’s input? What if the author is dead, the agent is retired, and the editor has left the company? Should we fix them silently or with some kind of editorial note? > Then there’s the case where the content of a book is not incorrect, per se, but may have become outmoded or offensive.... What do you do here? Do you update the language that’s incidental to the content of the book? Does it matter who you think is buying this — whether it’s people who want the diet advice or people who are researching the historic participation of Asian Americans in diet programs? No. A book should capture an author's intent/concept/idea at the time it was written and those intents/concepts/ideas should be frozen.

shagie 2y ago
Back in college, I recall a professor saying that German students of philosophy would learn English to be able to read Nietzsche in translation rather than as it was written. (Upon reflection, it might have been Kant - https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/28743 https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/28743 ) My latin was too rusty to be able to read Meditations on First Philosophy as it was written. ( https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 ). A translation from Latin to English ( https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosop... ) necessarily changes those intents/concepts/ideas into those that the reader is more familiar with. A translation from English of 1000 AD to 2000 AD has the same necessary changes http://www.hieronymus.us.com/latinweb/Mediaevum/Beowulf.htm http://www.hieronymus.us.com/latinweb/Mediaevum/Beowulf.htm Is it ok to read Liu Cixin's work 三体 as Ken Liu's translation known to the English speaking word as The Three-Body Problem? Or should I learn Chinese and immerse myself in the culture of China in order to read it with those intents / concepts / ideas as things frozen on paper? There are two problems - the book captured at its time may not be accessible anymore. Secondly, even if you can read the words it may be that the words those concepts map to in today's language are not the concepts that the author intended. So... how short of a time frame is not not acceptable to read the work in translation? I hold that a translation across time is not really any different than a translation of a modern work across languages and cultures.

b112 2y ago

Before ebooks, a bunch of friends and I used to memorize the full contents of a book, each. We'd then destroy the books.

nervysnail 2y ago
Were they radical political books? Erotica?
- bombcar 2y ago
  Statistically the most likely book is The Very Hungry Caterpillar which most children memorize and then destroy.

thebeardisred 2y ago

Especially apropos that the first link in the article is a 404.

franga2000 2y ago

> And once you have the right to make an ebook, that right may comes with certain stipulations, like the illustrator gets to approve it, or you must disable text-to-speech Disable TTS? Can you please fucking not?? E-books were such a huge step forward for accessibility, now lawyers are here to ruin it all...