22 ms·

ESR doesn't strike me as particularly fanatical from what I know of him. Are you thinking of something in particular?

by zbuc 14y ago

_delirium 14y ago
Have you read much of his writing style, or any of his disputes with others? They seem to always end up in hyperbolic, very personal polemics, like this one. Look up his encounters over the years with Bruce Perens, or RMS several times, or anyone ESR considers a "left-liberal". Also, climate scientists are malevolent frauds, in his view, Barack Obama is the worst president and anyone who can't see that is intellectually dishonest, etc., etc. Honestly I suspect his distaste for Stallman has more to do with general politics than free-software politics in particular; ESR is an anarcho-capitalist and Stallman is leftish. Not that that makes ESR particularly unique, but I wouldn't nominate him as a representative of even-keeled pragmatists; his temperament is much closer to the firebrand type that RMS and Theo de Raadt represent.
- kamaal 14y ago
  The difference is RMS is a fanatic with tons of accomplishments in his bag. Blog Noise to work ratio is too high in ESR's case. I don't know what his contributions to software are. Or when was the last time I heard some major contribution from him. He always seems to find something to bad mouth. I would consider RMS a super achiever compared to ESR.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    Right, RMS at least used to write code. ESR has always been a creepy hacker fanboy, latching on to and idolizing hacker culture, but has never been part of it, and never produced any code.
    - brlewis 14y ago
      ESR did not bring us emacs or gcc, but he has made some contributions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html I'm most grateful for vc-mode in emacs. (I'm merely addressing a factual point and in no way excusing the way ESR treats RMS in writing.)
      - papsosouid 14y ago
        Certainly "never produced any code" was hyperbole, but "contributions" is being pretty generous. Hobbling together some random scripts nobody has ever used isn't really contributing. Most of what he has tried to contribute has been rejected.
        adavies42 14y ago
        giflib is probably his most important project in terms of how many people use it gpsd is probably the project he's working on right now with the most potential for widespread use and importance forgeplucker http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/ http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/ (oddly not linked at http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html) is probably the project he's working on right now that's the most interesting (and ironically something i expect RMS would be a huge fan of)
        indubitably 14y ago
        """ imgsizer: This is a nifty little HTML authoring tool that will generate correct Netscape-style WIDTH and HEIGHT parameters for each of your IMG tags on an HTML page. This will allow the text portions of the page to load much faster. Requires that you have either identify(1) or a recent file(1) and rdjpegcom(1) installed. The RPM is architecture-independent. Requires Python. """ Ok then.
        adavies42 14y ago
        huh? did you have a point?
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      I'm curious, how does ESR make a living? He seems to spend a lot of time running his personal site (which carries no charges or ads) and has written a bunch of Open Source software. I don't see him doing anything that would put money into his bank account, or is he being sponsored by some company? If so who?
      - _delirium 14y ago
        I believe he was employed by the Open Source Initiative (which he co-founded) for some years, as its President. So indirectly funded by the companies that donated to OSI.
        hollerith 14y ago
        Many years after found the Open Source Initiative, ESR stated publicly that he never made any money from it, and having read most of his writings from that period and a lot of commentary on the organization, I find that statement credible. Also, he has claimed at least a couple of times over the years that he was (at the time of the claim) a consulting programmer.
      - gwern 14y ago
        IIRC he was given a chunk of stock in a Linux IPO and while he lost most of its value in the dot-com crash, it still left him some spare change; add on consulting, royalties, the occasional job like being president, basic nerd frugal living, and you probably have the whole story.
        gonzo 14y ago
        Shrinking book royalties and the earnings of his wife, who is a lawyer.
      - jgon 14y ago
        I am going to simply go by what ESR himself says, which is that his wife is a lawyer and so she goes and works every day which funds his ability to stay at home and write blog posts about the intellectual inferiority of black people and how the poor deserve no government help. No I am not making this up.
  - cheatercheater 14y ago
    http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code and, for more of Eric's accomplishments: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/moral-compassed http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/moral-compassed
- astrofinch 14y ago
  This blog post seemed pretty levelheaded to me. I think in general people can be levelheaded thinkers in one domain and dogmatic in another. So maybe ESR is dogmatic about other things, but this doesn't seem to be one of them from my perspective.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
pvarangot 14y ago
Are you familiar with his views about Islam or Homosexuality? Those seem pretty fanatical to me, they are completely biased and downright offensive and illiterate. He equates homosexuality with paedophilia, denies HIV is the sole cause of AIDS and believes in a conspiracy to hide the true causes, and calls for the murder of religious leaders of the middle east equating them with animals. I tried multiple times to discuss this theories with him, but he called me a "marxist anti-american fag" (sic), a label that even if undisputed gives him no logical arguments against any refutation of his bizarre theories nor justifies his calls for action or even sometimes genocide. For some time already his mind has been drifting in a sea of obscurantist choosing of statistics and a convenient selection of right-winged american-exceptionalist conspiracy theories. I could link to his twisted essays, but although biased the entry in Rational Wiki about him sums most of the hard facts, though I suggest you ignore their opinion and go read the compiled cited writing of ESR. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
- pjscott 14y ago
  I dislike seeing someone's name smeared in a vague way. A bit of googling brought up the essay you mentioned regarding homosexuality, pederasty, and pedophilia: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=26 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=26 (Vagueness, begone!)
  - luser001 14y ago
    The rationalwiki article linked above links to that article and several others. So IMHO your charge of "name smeared in a vague way" is incorrect.
  - uvdiv 14y ago
    Vile. `pvarangot' didn't exaggerate.
- emmelaich 14y ago
  That RationalWiki page is terrible; I had a high opinion of RationalWiki before that. (No refs; just read the content headings for what I mean) This all apart from what I think of ESR.

ESR doesn't strike me as particularly fanatical from what I know of him. Are you thinking of something in particular?

by zbuc 14y ago

ESR doesn't strike me as particularly fanatical from what I know of him. Are you thinking of something in particular?

Have you read much of his writing style, or any of his disputes with others? They seem to always end up in hyperbolic, very personal polemics, like this one. Look up his encounters over the years with Bruce Perens, or RMS several times, or anyone ESR considers a "left-liberal". Also, climate scientists are malevolent frauds, in his view, Barack Obama is the worst president and anyone who can't see that is intellectually dishonest, etc., etc. Honestly I suspect his distaste for Stallman has more to do with general politics than free-software politics in particular; ESR is an anarcho-capitalist and Stallman is leftish. Not that that makes ESR particularly unique, but I wouldn't nominate him as a representative of even-keeled pragmatists; his temperament is much closer to the firebrand type that RMS and Theo de Raadt represent.

kamaal 14y ago
The difference is RMS is a fanatic with tons of accomplishments in his bag. Blog Noise to work ratio is too high in ESR's case. I don't know what his contributions to software are. Or when was the last time I heard some major contribution from him. He always seems to find something to bad mouth. I would consider RMS a super achiever compared to ESR.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  Right, RMS at least used to write code. ESR has always been a creepy hacker fanboy, latching on to and idolizing hacker culture, but has never been part of it, and never produced any code.
  - brlewis 14y ago
    ESR did not bring us emacs or gcc, but he has made some contributions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html I'm most grateful for vc-mode in emacs. (I'm merely addressing a factual point and in no way excusing the way ESR treats RMS in writing.)
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      Certainly "never produced any code" was hyperbole, but "contributions" is being pretty generous. Hobbling together some random scripts nobody has ever used isn't really contributing. Most of what he has tried to contribute has been rejected.
      - adavies42 14y ago
        giflib is probably his most important project in terms of how many people use it gpsd is probably the project he's working on right now with the most potential for widespread use and importance forgeplucker http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/ http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/ (oddly not linked at http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/software.html) is probably the project he's working on right now that's the most interesting (and ironically something i expect RMS would be a huge fan of)
        indubitably 14y ago
        """ imgsizer: This is a nifty little HTML authoring tool that will generate correct Netscape-style WIDTH and HEIGHT parameters for each of your IMG tags on an HTML page. This will allow the text portions of the page to load much faster. Requires that you have either identify(1) or a recent file(1) and rdjpegcom(1) installed. The RPM is architecture-independent. Requires Python. """ Ok then.
        adavies42 14y ago
        huh? did you have a point?
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I'm curious, how does ESR make a living? He seems to spend a lot of time running his personal site (which carries no charges or ads) and has written a bunch of Open Source software. I don't see him doing anything that would put money into his bank account, or is he being sponsored by some company? If so who?
    - _delirium 14y ago
      I believe he was employed by the Open Source Initiative (which he co-founded) for some years, as its President. So indirectly funded by the companies that donated to OSI.
      - hollerith 14y ago
        Many years after found the Open Source Initiative, ESR stated publicly that he never made any money from it, and having read most of his writings from that period and a lot of commentary on the organization, I find that statement credible. Also, he has claimed at least a couple of times over the years that he was (at the time of the claim) a consulting programmer.
    - gwern 14y ago
      IIRC he was given a chunk of stock in a Linux IPO and while he lost most of its value in the dot-com crash, it still left him some spare change; add on consulting, royalties, the occasional job like being president, basic nerd frugal living, and you probably have the whole story.
      - gonzo 14y ago
        Shrinking book royalties and the earnings of his wife, who is a lawyer.
    - jgon 14y ago
      I am going to simply go by what ESR himself says, which is that his wife is a lawyer and so she goes and works every day which funds his ability to stay at home and write blog posts about the intellectual inferiority of black people and how the poor deserve no government help. No I am not making this up.
- cheatercheater 14y ago
  http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code and, for more of Eric's accomplishments: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/moral-compassed http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/moral-compassed
astrofinch 14y ago
This blog post seemed pretty levelheaded to me. I think in general people can be levelheaded thinkers in one domain and dogmatic in another. So maybe ESR is dogmatic about other things, but this doesn't seem to be one of them from my perspective.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

pvarangot 14y ago

Are you familiar with his views about Islam or Homosexuality? Those seem pretty fanatical to me, they are completely biased and downright offensive and illiterate. He equates homosexuality with paedophilia, denies HIV is the sole cause of AIDS and believes in a conspiracy to hide the true causes, and calls for the murder of religious leaders of the middle east equating them with animals. I tried multiple times to discuss this theories with him, but he called me a "marxist anti-american fag" (sic), a label that even if undisputed gives him no logical arguments against any refutation of his bizarre theories nor justifies his calls for action or even sometimes genocide. For some time already his mind has been drifting in a sea of obscurantist choosing of statistics and a convenient selection of right-winged american-exceptionalist conspiracy theories. I could link to his twisted essays, but although biased the entry in Rational Wiki about him sums most of the hard facts, though I suggest you ignore their opinion and go read the compiled cited writing of ESR. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

pjscott 14y ago
I dislike seeing someone's name smeared in a vague way. A bit of googling brought up the essay you mentioned regarding homosexuality, pederasty, and pedophilia: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=26 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=26 (Vagueness, begone!)
- luser001 14y ago
  The rationalwiki article linked above links to that article and several others. So IMHO your charge of "name smeared in a vague way" is incorrect.
- uvdiv 14y ago
  Vile. `pvarangot' didn't exaggerate.
emmelaich 14y ago
That RationalWiki page is terrible; I had a high opinion of RationalWiki before that. (No refs; just read the content headings for what I mean) This all apart from what I think of ESR.