8 ms·

Short-term rentals disrupting SF housing market

72 points by silentscope 14y ago

nodata 14y ago
"The big surprise for us was when we tried to contact Airbnb" to complain, said Thieme, a writer and editor... Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour.
- tokenadult 14y ago
  Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour. Was the neighbor who had control of the unit as a tenant on the lease home when the room was rented out? I don't think so. The article opens with these paragraphs: "First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down. Then came the people who would try to open the front door of the Castro/Duboce Triangle apartment where Barnaby Thieme and Rebecca Reagan live, saying they thought it led to the lobby. "The couple looked online and discovered what was behind the disruptions - a unit in their building was being rented out through Airbnb, the marketplace for short-term housing in private residences." I read that as saying that the couple who were disturbed by Airbnb visitors DID talk to those visitors, only to find out that they weren't actual tenants of the building. The person putting the unit up for short-term stays on Airbnb doesn't seem to have been available. AFTER EDIT: A top-level comment that came in since I posted this makes an interesting point: I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. This is usually how the law (and business custom) develops, by encountering actual human behavior. As Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote, "The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience." The Common Law (1881), p. 1.
  - nodata 14y ago
    ..DID talk to those visitors.. They need to talk to the person the visitors are renting from. Is that doesn't work, they can go one level higher up.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      If they're shared tenants in a building owned by a landlord, they need to report the Airbnb to their landlord, followed by a notice-and-cure letter demanding that the landlord end the use of the building for Airbnb rentals. Conversion of an apartment in your building into an ad hoc hotel is a material change for any number of obvious reasons.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- ScottWhigham 14y ago
  Not mentioned is whether the person who owns the subletted apartment is, in fact, their actual neighbour (as opposed to someone who lives somewhere else yet still owns the property and rents it via Airbnb).
- neutronicus 14y ago
  The point is that they didn't have a neighbor. They had an absentee property owner and a string of short-term tenants.
- abcd_f 14y ago
  First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down.
peejaybee 14y ago
"We used Airbnb happily in Europe last summer," said Thieme. "I want to extend them the benefit of the doubt that they are still evolving their business model and have had explosive growth, but they need to evolve appropriate mechanisms of monitoring and control. They should deal with zoning laws and tax laws more aggressively and realistically, or they will antagonize people." tl;dr: "We like Airbnb when others are potentially inconvenienced to our benefit, but not the other way around."
- tptacek 14y ago
  The overwhelming majority of those inconvenienced by abusive Airbnb listings have never previously heard of the site. It's unhelpful to single out a single person who had used Airbnb as a way of warding off criticisms of Airbnb abuse.
  - peejaybee 14y ago
    Well, I didn't exactly single the guy out -- he was presented to me by a major news outlet as poster boy for the problem.
josefresco 14y ago
For an industry so focused on disrupting ...everything. Things start to get real hard, boring and normal when met with success and exposure to the public. I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. Support line dealing with complaints from neighbors? How messy and resource intensive. Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard.
- kanamekun 14y ago
  "Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard." In other words, a fantastic way to build barriers to entry and really lock up a new industry.
  - vecinu 14y ago
    A lot of folks don't want to acknowledge this fact but many businesses operate this way. Most internet startups have low or no barriers to entry, so they can get an idea off the ground really quickly.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Also, if they are not their customers why should ABNB care?
tptacek 14y ago
Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apartment from a landlord and then use the space to run a hotel. Anybody who's ever rented more than one apartment knows that landlords are picky about tenants, often requiring credit checks as well as references from previous landlords. Renters sign a binding agreement with their landlord stipulating that they're using the space as their private residence. Breaking that agreement for profit is unethical.
- ditojim 14y ago
  and airbnb really doesnt care about this or they would take further steps to ensure that their rentors have the authority to rent the place. they say they do, but they don't. without renters i think airbnb would be in trouble..how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?
  - pork 14y ago
    There's a category of homeowners like that: vacation home owners who DO explocitly want people coming in and out and paying.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      I like Airbnb, and while I think they should own up to their users real tax liability (if you're listing your place for the majority of the year, you're a hotel), I don't want to see them smote by regulations. But that doesn't mean I'm shrugging my shoulders and saying "eh, that's what disruption looks like!" when renters in apartment buildings convert their spaces into mini-hotels. That's abusive. Fortunately, it's also unlawful, and there's a clear chain of responsibility to resolve it. Cotenants in buildings experiencing Airbnb abuse shouldn't bother talking to Airbnb or their neighbors. They should report the conversion to their landlord, and then have a notice-and-cure drafted. In most circumstances, landlords probably cannot allow their buildings to be partially converted into hotels under the terms of their existing tenants leases.
Adirael 14y ago
This kind of lettings are a PITA for the neighbours, with or without AirBnB. I used to live in a city with high level of tourism and the apartment next door was rented in a short term fashion. Sometimes the people was nice, others they were noisy, there's nothing AirBnB or the owner can really do apart from removing the people form the property if they are breaking the law or community rules. Taxes and laws are a totally different beast here.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  My neighbors are pretty noise and the appartment is leased on a normal contract.
redwood 14y ago
Weird that AirBnB wasn't asked to comment on this piece; or if they were, that they didn't provide anything significant.
mindcrime 14y ago
all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. {{citation needed}} I can just as easily say that "the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place because of corruption, greed, nepotism, and/or incompetence and are universally immoral, unjust and should be ignored". And on a semi-related note... did anybody else notice how the phrase "scarce rental housing" kept cropping up in that article? Hmmm... so if there is actually demand for more long-term rental housing, and that demand is not being met, I'd bet money that the primary reason is drumroll please government interference. And I'd be strongly tempted to suspect that said interference has it's root in more corrupted relationships involving the local government and powerful special interests.
- jseliger 14y ago
  The article has one other howler: "But others, encouraged by lax oversight and lucrative payoffs, use the rental sites to run ad-hoc hotels, which besides annoying neighbors, takes long-term rentals off a market that desperately needs them. . ." San Francisco has also made it virtually impossible to build new housing units (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/facebook_george_lucas_and_nimbyism_the_idiotic_rules_preventing_silicon_valley_from_building_the_houses_and_offices_we_need_to_power_american_innovation_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face...). If the city needs more housing stock, there's an advanced, information-age technology called the "elevator" that can allow it to build a very large number of housing units on a very small amount of land.
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    This... there was also a recent NYT article about how new workers moving to SF are displacing existing residents by competing for apartment rentals. Having thousands of new residents moving into a city should be viewed as an opportunity, not a problem, especially considering the budget issues out here. SF needs to stop obstructing new construction and allow for more vertical residential housing like New York and other space-constrained cities. Even if those apartments mostly go to yuppies, it will take pressure off the overall housing market.
primigenus 14y ago
Two of my coworkers are in SF right now for WWDC, having flown there from Europe, and their AirBnB host was just handed an eviction notice for subletting - they have to leave immediately. So this article feels extremely ... timely. And I'll be in SF in 2 weeks for Google IO, also staying with an AirBnB host. Not the kind of article I want to read before flying out there :-)
- runako 14y ago
  Do you know how AirBnB is handling this for your coworkers? This kind of real-time fiasco is exactly the reason I've been hesitant to rent on AirBnB, so I'd be curious to see how they resolve the situation for the renters.
  - primigenus 14y ago
    They headed out to see the keynote at 9am and I think they'll deal with the problem afterwards. Priorities, and all that ;-) If I find out what happened and it's relevant I'll report back.
    - runako 14y ago
      Smart guys. :-) Would love an update if you remember. Thanks!
      - primigenus 14y ago
        They got in touch with AirBnB; AirBnB sent out a message to nearby hosts asking for emergency assistance, and a friendly host in the area was able to pick them up and give them a place to stay for the rest of the week. It looks like they may have to pay some fees and extra for the difference in value of the location, but overall it's better than sleeping on a bench in a park!
- ebiester 14y ago
  I had that happen to me, subletting an apartment for two months outside of AirBnB. (We were taking over an apartment of friends of friends while they were in France.) So, a few days after the house was broken into and our laptops were stolen, the landlord (from Germany) found out we were there and we had an hour to get out. Since then, I've been very wary about subletting unless everything is above board.
ThomPete 14y ago
I can say as someone who moved to New York two weeks ago and hoped that AirBnB would allow me to find a good temp place that i feel pretty critical towards the experience. The prices are insane. I paid 3300USD for a shitty studio in China Town for a month. I am ok with paying a lot of money for a place and I know NY well enough to know it's expensive. But people who get only profit from subletting and pumping up the prices by a factor 2x-3x should not be allowed onto the platform. Of course Airbnb don't really care because they get a percentage of the transaction. So great idea but pretty shitty service at least in NY.
- jaems33 14y ago
  Well there are places on Craigslist you probably could've found cheaper in Chinatown of all places. But studio apartments in general are expensive in a place like Secondly, Airbnb does have plenty of shared places in Queens and Brooklyn that go for less than seventy bucks a day, and studios that would be closer to 2k.
  - ThomPete 14y ago
    The thing is. right now I am looking at a 1BR appartment completely modern building, rooftop, open kitchen the works for 3600USD. There are many places on AirBnB that have simply pumped up the prices to make a living and since there is not negative feedback mechanism everyone just charges more and more. Craigslist yeah i tried that, i enden up with mostly scams and bait and switch guys.
    - TylerE 14y ago
      It's called capitalism. You're paying for the convenience of not having to wait to move in, not having to sign a long-term lease, etc. Of course you should expect to pay more than someone who puts up with those downsides.
      - ThomPete 14y ago
        It's inconsistent that is what it is.
jusben1369 14y ago
Weird no one mentions insurance. That's the biggest issue of all I would think. Landlords have insurance for legitimate tenants.
- slug 14y ago
  They do? The last time I read a lease mentioning an insurance was only to pay a hotel in case of fire/flooding, anything else you are on your own.
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    It wouldn't be in the lease, it's not for the tenant. Landlords will carry liability insurance for their units in case a tenant or their guest is injured, etc and decides to sue the landlord. Those liability policies often have limitations on who they'll cover, how the unit can be used, etc. I'm guessing the insurance companies find a way to avoid covering you if you let a tenant sublet their apartment hotel-style... if for no other reason than I'd bet policies for hotels are more expensive than residences. (And hotels have to have better fire protection, etc.)
    - jusben1369 14y ago
      Right. I should have been clearer. Airbnb person staying in building sets building on fire. Insurance companies always look for anyway not to pay. Search web, find evidence that apartment was active on AirBnB and deny claim as it's a breach. Now everyone else in the building has to go after the Landlord directly. Bottom line would appear to be that leases will soon specifically speak to this new business model and it probably won't be what most people would like to see.
merc1985 14y ago
I also just had an issue with AirBnb. I live in a NYC cooperative apartment. We do NOT allow short-term rentals (It's actually a NYS law, minimum of 30 days). The person renting out their apartment owns it. I had spoken to AirBnb about this issue, asking them to remove the listing. They feel that this is an issue between our building and the owner of the individual apartment. However I asked AirBnb why they allow apartment rentals in a state where the law does not allow it. AirBnb stated that the lessor signs an agreement and therefore the onus is on them. However, I feel the law is implicit and AirBnb is aware of this law, then entering a contract with prior knowledge of the contract already being invalid makes AirBnb culpable. You dont enter contracts knowing the contract is already void. It's amazing that AirBnb's entire business model pretty much hinges on this contract cop-out. It has yet to be seen if my building decides to include AirBnb as a defendant in a lawsuit against this owner as we work to evict them. The main reason why toursts need to stay in hotels is also as follows: 1) no background check - allows opportunity of crime. Example: pedophile renting a house or apartment near children. Or someone wanting to rob a specific apartment or group of apartments. How do you gain access to the building? $120 bucks, one night. 2) Fire Code: hotels have sprinklers and proper signage for fire in places where people are not as familiar with the surroundings. This puts the guests at risk. 3) Fire hazard: Guests are unfamiliar with the stove, or jet lagged or smoke a cigarette etc. Risk of fire is greater. 4) Noise: guests decide to have a party or blast music. Or they are just up late b/c they are on vacation. 5) Vermin: guests arent going to be as clean. B/c, hey that's what the cleaning deposit is for. This can attract vermin. Then there's the chance the guests bring bed bugs with them. And yes, I agree it does take away units that would otherwise have been used for long-term renting, robbing the rental market of stock. NYC has about a 1% vacancy rate as it is. AirBnb is going to see a huge litigation storm coming its way if it doesnt take more of a proactive approach where local law does not allow such rentals.

72 points by silentscope 14y ago

"The big surprise for us was when we tried to contact Airbnb" to complain, said Thieme, a writer and editor... Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour.

tokenadult 14y ago
Not mentioned is if they tried to talk to their neighbour. Was the neighbor who had control of the unit as a tenant on the lease home when the room was rented out? I don't think so. The article opens with these paragraphs: "First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down. Then came the people who would try to open the front door of the Castro/Duboce Triangle apartment where Barnaby Thieme and Rebecca Reagan live, saying they thought it led to the lobby. "The couple looked online and discovered what was behind the disruptions - a unit in their building was being rented out through Airbnb, the marketplace for short-term housing in private residences." I read that as saying that the couple who were disturbed by Airbnb visitors DID talk to those visitors, only to find out that they weren't actual tenants of the building. The person putting the unit up for short-term stays on Airbnb doesn't seem to have been available. AFTER EDIT: A top-level comment that came in since I posted this makes an interesting point: I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. This is usually how the law (and business custom) develops, by encountering actual human behavior. As Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote, "The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience." The Common Law (1881), p. 1.
- nodata 14y ago
  ..DID talk to those visitors.. They need to talk to the person the visitors are renting from. Is that doesn't work, they can go one level higher up.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    If they're shared tenants in a building owned by a landlord, they need to report the Airbnb to their landlord, followed by a notice-and-cure letter demanding that the landlord end the use of the building for Airbnb rentals. Conversion of an apartment in your building into an ad hoc hotel is a material change for any number of obvious reasons.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
ScottWhigham 14y ago
Not mentioned is whether the person who owns the subletted apartment is, in fact, their actual neighbour (as opposed to someone who lives somewhere else yet still owns the property and rents it via Airbnb).
neutronicus 14y ago
The point is that they didn't have a neighbor. They had an absentee property owner and a string of short-term tenants.
abcd_f 14y ago
First came the noisy upstairs neighbors who said they were just "renting the place for a couple of nights" but refused to tone it down.

peejaybee 14y ago

"We used Airbnb happily in Europe last summer," said Thieme. "I want to extend them the benefit of the doubt that they are still evolving their business model and have had explosive growth, but they need to evolve appropriate mechanisms of monitoring and control. They should deal with zoning laws and tax laws more aggressively and realistically, or they will antagonize people." tl;dr: "We like Airbnb when others are potentially inconvenienced to our benefit, but not the other way around."

tptacek 14y ago
The overwhelming majority of those inconvenienced by abusive Airbnb listings have never previously heard of the site. It's unhelpful to single out a single person who had used Airbnb as a way of warding off criticisms of Airbnb abuse.
- peejaybee 14y ago
  Well, I didn't exactly single the guy out -- he was presented to me by a major news outlet as poster boy for the problem.

josefresco 14y ago

For an industry so focused on disrupting ...everything. Things start to get real hard, boring and normal when met with success and exposure to the public. I admire the optimism that youth brings, allowing someone to look at a problem with a fresh perspective but all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. Support line dealing with complaints from neighbors? How messy and resource intensive. Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard.

kanamekun 14y ago
"Meeting with local community leaders and the public to discuss the issues surrounding their service? That doesn't scale very well and is again ... messy, boring and hard." In other words, a fantastic way to build barriers to entry and really lock up a new industry.
- vecinu 14y ago
  A lot of folks don't want to acknowledge this fact but many businesses operate this way. Most internet startups have low or no barriers to entry, so they can get an idea off the ground really quickly.
tomjen3 14y ago
Also, if they are not their customers why should ABNB care?

tptacek 14y ago

Much of the criticism of Airbnb in this article seems to stem from renters "subletting" their apartments to vacationers. Why does Airbnb allow renters to list their apartments on Airbnb at all? In virtually no case does a renter have a lease that permits Airbnb-style listings; the boilerplate lease that virtually everyone works from requires landlord approval for each subletter. It seems unconscionable to rent an apartment from a landlord and then use the space to run a hotel. Anybody who's ever rented more than one apartment knows that landlords are picky about tenants, often requiring credit checks as well as references from previous landlords. Renters sign a binding agreement with their landlord stipulating that they're using the space as their private residence. Breaking that agreement for profit is unethical.

ditojim 14y ago
and airbnb really doesnt care about this or they would take further steps to ensure that their rentors have the authority to rent the place. they say they do, but they don't. without renters i think airbnb would be in trouble..how many homeowners really want strangers coming in and out of their home regularly?
- pork 14y ago
  There's a category of homeowners like that: vacation home owners who DO explocitly want people coming in and out and paying.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I like Airbnb, and while I think they should own up to their users real tax liability (if you're listing your place for the majority of the year, you're a hotel), I don't want to see them smote by regulations. But that doesn't mean I'm shrugging my shoulders and saying "eh, that's what disruption looks like!" when renters in apartment buildings convert their spaces into mini-hotels. That's abusive. Fortunately, it's also unlawful, and there's a clear chain of responsibility to resolve it. Cotenants in buildings experiencing Airbnb abuse shouldn't bother talking to Airbnb or their neighbors. They should report the conversion to their landlord, and then have a notice-and-cure drafted. In most circumstances, landlords probably cannot allow their buildings to be partially converted into hotels under the terms of their existing tenants leases.

Adirael 14y ago

This kind of lettings are a PITA for the neighbours, with or without AirBnB. I used to live in a city with high level of tourism and the apartment next door was rented in a short term fashion. Sometimes the people was nice, others they were noisy, there's nothing AirBnB or the owner can really do apart from removing the people form the property if they are breaking the law or community rules. Taxes and laws are a totally different beast here.

tomjen3 14y ago
My neighbors are pretty noise and the appartment is leased on a normal contract.

redwood 14y ago

Weird that AirBnB wasn't asked to comment on this piece; or if they were, that they didn't provide anything significant.

mindcrime 14y ago

all too often, the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place for a very good reason. {{citation needed}} I can just as easily say that "the rules, laws and regulations in place that make the old way of doing business so boring and hard are actually in place because of corruption, greed, nepotism, and/or incompetence and are universally immoral, unjust and should be ignored". And on a semi-related note... did anybody else notice how the phrase "scarce rental housing" kept cropping up in that article? Hmmm... so if there is actually demand for more long-term rental housing, and that demand is not being met, I'd bet money that the primary reason is drumroll please government interference. And I'd be strongly tempted to suspect that said interference has it's root in more corrupted relationships involving the local government and powerful special interests.

jseliger 14y ago
The article has one other howler: "But others, encouraged by lax oversight and lucrative payoffs, use the rental sites to run ad-hoc hotels, which besides annoying neighbors, takes long-term rentals off a market that desperately needs them. . ." San Francisco has also made it virtually impossible to build new housing units (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/facebook_george_lucas_and_nimbyism_the_idiotic_rules_preventing_silicon_valley_from_building_the_houses_and_offices_we_need_to_power_american_innovation_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face...). If the city needs more housing stock, there's an advanced, information-age technology called the "elevator" that can allow it to build a very large number of housing units on a very small amount of land.
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  This... there was also a recent NYT article about how new workers moving to SF are displacing existing residents by competing for apartment rentals. Having thousands of new residents moving into a city should be viewed as an opportunity, not a problem, especially considering the budget issues out here. SF needs to stop obstructing new construction and allow for more vertical residential housing like New York and other space-constrained cities. Even if those apartments mostly go to yuppies, it will take pressure off the overall housing market.

primigenus 14y ago

Two of my coworkers are in SF right now for WWDC, having flown there from Europe, and their AirBnB host was just handed an eviction notice for subletting - they have to leave immediately. So this article feels extremely ... timely. And I'll be in SF in 2 weeks for Google IO, also staying with an AirBnB host. Not the kind of article I want to read before flying out there :-)

runako 14y ago
Do you know how AirBnB is handling this for your coworkers? This kind of real-time fiasco is exactly the reason I've been hesitant to rent on AirBnB, so I'd be curious to see how they resolve the situation for the renters.
- primigenus 14y ago
  They headed out to see the keynote at 9am and I think they'll deal with the problem afterwards. Priorities, and all that ;-) If I find out what happened and it's relevant I'll report back.
  - runako 14y ago
    Smart guys. :-) Would love an update if you remember. Thanks!
    - primigenus 14y ago
      They got in touch with AirBnB; AirBnB sent out a message to nearby hosts asking for emergency assistance, and a friendly host in the area was able to pick them up and give them a place to stay for the rest of the week. It looks like they may have to pay some fees and extra for the difference in value of the location, but overall it's better than sleeping on a bench in a park!
ebiester 14y ago
I had that happen to me, subletting an apartment for two months outside of AirBnB. (We were taking over an apartment of friends of friends while they were in France.) So, a few days after the house was broken into and our laptops were stolen, the landlord (from Germany) found out we were there and we had an hour to get out. Since then, I've been very wary about subletting unless everything is above board.

ThomPete 14y ago

I can say as someone who moved to New York two weeks ago and hoped that AirBnB would allow me to find a good temp place that i feel pretty critical towards the experience. The prices are insane. I paid 3300USD for a shitty studio in China Town for a month. I am ok with paying a lot of money for a place and I know NY well enough to know it's expensive. But people who get only profit from subletting and pumping up the prices by a factor 2x-3x should not be allowed onto the platform. Of course Airbnb don't really care because they get a percentage of the transaction. So great idea but pretty shitty service at least in NY.

jaems33 14y ago
Well there are places on Craigslist you probably could've found cheaper in Chinatown of all places. But studio apartments in general are expensive in a place like Secondly, Airbnb does have plenty of shared places in Queens and Brooklyn that go for less than seventy bucks a day, and studios that would be closer to 2k.
- ThomPete 14y ago
  The thing is. right now I am looking at a 1BR appartment completely modern building, rooftop, open kitchen the works for 3600USD. There are many places on AirBnB that have simply pumped up the prices to make a living and since there is not negative feedback mechanism everyone just charges more and more. Craigslist yeah i tried that, i enden up with mostly scams and bait and switch guys.
  - TylerE 14y ago
    It's called capitalism. You're paying for the convenience of not having to wait to move in, not having to sign a long-term lease, etc. Of course you should expect to pay more than someone who puts up with those downsides.
    - ThomPete 14y ago
      It's inconsistent that is what it is.

jusben1369 14y ago

Weird no one mentions insurance. That's the biggest issue of all I would think. Landlords have insurance for legitimate tenants.

slug 14y ago
They do? The last time I read a lease mentioning an insurance was only to pay a hotel in case of fire/flooding, anything else you are on your own.
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  It wouldn't be in the lease, it's not for the tenant. Landlords will carry liability insurance for their units in case a tenant or their guest is injured, etc and decides to sue the landlord. Those liability policies often have limitations on who they'll cover, how the unit can be used, etc. I'm guessing the insurance companies find a way to avoid covering you if you let a tenant sublet their apartment hotel-style... if for no other reason than I'd bet policies for hotels are more expensive than residences. (And hotels have to have better fire protection, etc.)
  - jusben1369 14y ago
    Right. I should have been clearer. Airbnb person staying in building sets building on fire. Insurance companies always look for anyway not to pay. Search web, find evidence that apartment was active on AirBnB and deny claim as it's a breach. Now everyone else in the building has to go after the Landlord directly. Bottom line would appear to be that leases will soon specifically speak to this new business model and it probably won't be what most people would like to see.

merc1985 14y ago

I also just had an issue with AirBnb. I live in a NYC cooperative apartment. We do NOT allow short-term rentals (It's actually a NYS law, minimum of 30 days). The person renting out their apartment owns it. I had spoken to AirBnb about this issue, asking them to remove the listing. They feel that this is an issue between our building and the owner of the individual apartment. However I asked AirBnb why they allow apartment rentals in a state where the law does not allow it. AirBnb stated that the lessor signs an agreement and therefore the onus is on them. However, I feel the law is implicit and AirBnb is aware of this law, then entering a contract with prior knowledge of the contract already being invalid makes AirBnb culpable. You dont enter contracts knowing the contract is already void. It's amazing that AirBnb's entire business model pretty much hinges on this contract cop-out. It has yet to be seen if my building decides to include AirBnb as a defendant in a lawsuit against this owner as we work to evict them. The main reason why toursts need to stay in hotels is also as follows: 1) no background check - allows opportunity of crime. Example: pedophile renting a house or apartment near children. Or someone wanting to rob a specific apartment or group of apartments. How do you gain access to the building? $120 bucks, one night. 2) Fire Code: hotels have sprinklers and proper signage for fire in places where people are not as familiar with the surroundings. This puts the guests at risk. 3) Fire hazard: Guests are unfamiliar with the stove, or jet lagged or smoke a cigarette etc. Risk of fire is greater. 4) Noise: guests decide to have a party or blast music. Or they are just up late b/c they are on vacation. 5) Vermin: guests arent going to be as clean. B/c, hey that's what the cleaning deposit is for. This can attract vermin. Then there's the chance the guests bring bed bugs with them. And yes, I agree it does take away units that would otherwise have been used for long-term renting, robbing the rental market of stock. NYC has about a 1% vacancy rate as it is. AirBnb is going to see a huge litigation storm coming its way if it doesnt take more of a proactive approach where local law does not allow such rentals.