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IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years. Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM servi
by blueelephanttea 2y ago
IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years.
Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM service atm. But still thinks it is only supplemental as they handle a bunch of the core stuff without it. And require explicit user consent to use OpenAI. And Apple clearly views it as a partial commodity since they even said they plan to add others.
Tough to bet against OpenAI right now...but this deal does not feel like a 10 year deal...
- kovezd 2y agoDisagree. This feels more like the Google partnership with Apple' Safari that has lasted for long time. Except in this case, I think is OpenAI who will get the big checks.
- lxgr 2y agoWhy would Apple want to keep paying big checks while simultaneously weakening their privacy story?
- dereg 2y agoIf Apple wasn't selling privacy, I'd assume the other way around. Or if anything, OpenAI would give the service out for free. There's a reason why ChatGPT became free to the public, GPT-4o moreover. It's obvious that OpenAI needs whatever data it can get its hands on to train GPT-5.
- astrange 2y agoChatGPT was free to the public because it was a toy for a conference. They didn't expect it to be popular because it was basically already available in Playground for months. I think 4o is free because GPT3.5 was so relatively bad it means people are constantly claiming LLMs can't do things that 4 does just fine.
- Dunedan 2y agoApple doesn't even bother to highlight their cooperation with OpenAI. Instead they bury the integration of ChatGPT as the last section of their "Apple Intelligence" announcement: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-intelligence-for-iphone-ipad-and-mac/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-int...
- blueelephanttea 2y agoIf Apple were paying to use Google the partnership would not still exist today.
- rfdearborn 2y agoThis integration is way more limited and frictioned. Whereas with search Apple's fully outsourced and queries go straight to your 3rd-party default, Siri escalates to GPT only for certain queries and with one-off permissions. They seem to be calculating that their cross-app context, custom silicon, and privacy branding give them a still-worthwhile shot at winning the Assistant War. I think this is reasonable, especially if open source AI continues to keep pace with the frontier.
- nsonha 2y agoDoubt that Apple can ever come up with a better LLM than OpenAI's, they stopped trying to make Siri as good as Google Assistant after 10+ years now. I don't think they are that good at Cloud or ML compared to other big techs
- EasyMark 2y agoCouldn’t it be they’re just feeling out the partnership without going all in?
- lanza 2y agoDitto. They'll use it now while they stand to benefit and in 3 years they'll be lambasting OpenAI publicly for not being private enough with data and pretend that they never had anything to do with them.
- nextworddev 2y agoThis partnership is structured so that no data is logged or sent to OpenAI.
- wmf 2y agoThe UI shows a "do you want your data to be sent to OpenAI?" popup.
- noahtallen 2y agoThe parent is partially right, the keynote mentioned that OpenAI agreed to not track Apple user requests.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoI would like to see that codified in a binding agreement regulators can surface in discovery if needed. Trust but verify.
- astrange 2y agoCalifornia and EU law require keeping data like that to be opt-in afaik, so it doesn't need a promise to not do it.
- voytec 2y ago[flagged]
- hnaccount_rng 2y ago
- adolph 2y agoNot looking forward to the equivalent of the early Apple Maps years.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y agoThere’s a lot I don’t like about Sam Altman. There’s a lot I don’t like about OpenAI. But goddamn they absolutely leapfrogged Google and Apple and it’s completely amazing to see these trillion dollar companies play catch-up with a start-up. I want to see more of this. Big Tech has been holding back innovation for too long.
- beoberha 2y agoBig Tech is the only reason OpenAI can run. Microsoft is propping them up with billions of dollars worth of compute and infrastructure
- prince_nerd 2y agoAnd the foundational tech (Transformers) came from Big Tech, aka Google
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y agoIt came from Google employees who left to found startups. Google had technical founders, now it’s run by MBAs and they are having a Kodak Moment.
- swatcoder 2y agoThey "leapfrogged" Google on providing a natural language interface to the world knowledge we'd gotten used to retrieving throug web search. But Apple's never done more than toyed in that space. Apple's focus has long been on a lifestyle product experience across their portfolio of hardware, and Apple Intelligence appears to be focused exactly on that in a way that has little overlap with OpenAI's offerings. The partnership agreement announced today is just outsourcing an accessory tool to a popular and suitably scaled vendor, the same as they did for web search and social network integration in the past. Nobody's leapfrogging anybody between these two because they're on totally different paths.
- itishappy 2y ago
- Ancapistani 2y agoMy gut says that it's a stopgap solution to implement the experience they want. I think Apple's ultimate goal is to move as much of the AI functionality as possible on-device.
- helsinkiandrew 2y agoBut they’ve also signalled they’ll probably support Google/Anthropic in the future > Apple demoed other generative features beyond the OpenAI integration and said it plans to announce support for other AI models in the future.
- wg0 2y agoActually, just in three to five years, lots of "AI boxes" and those magical sparkling icons next to input fields summoning AI would be silently removed. LLMs are not accurate, they aren't subject matter experts that'll be maybe within 5% error margin. People will gradually learn and discover anf the cost of keeping a model updated and running won't drastically reduce so we'll most likely see dust settling down.
- bee_rider 2y agoHow do you define a percent error margin on the typical output of something like ChatGPT? IIRC the image generation folks have started using metrics like subjective users ratings because this stuff is really difficult to quantify objectively.
- airstrike 2y agoIMHO the terribly overlooked issue with generative AI is that the end users' views of the response generated by the LLM often differs greatly from the opinion of the person actually interacting with the model this is particularly evident with image generation, but I think it's true across the board. for example, you may think something I created on midjourney "looks amazing", whereas I may dislike it because it's so far from what I had in mind and was actually trying to accomplish when I was sending in my prompt
- epolanski 2y agoYour last paragraph is true regardless of how the image was generated. One can find anything YOU produce to have different qualities from you.
- airstrike 2y agoTrue, but generally what art I produce IRL is objectively terrible, whereas I can come up with some pretty nice looking images on Midjourney.... which are still terrible to me when I wanted them to look like something else, but others may find them appealing because they don't know how I've failed at my objective In other words, there are two different objectives in a "drawing": (1) portraying that which I meant to portray and (2) making it aesthetically appealing People who only see the finished product may be impressed by #2 and never consider how bad I was at #1
- MangoCoffee 2y agoIt's a win for OpenAI and AI. I remember someone on Hacker News commented that OpenAI is a company searching for a market. This move might prove that AI, and OpenAI, has a legitimate way to be used and profitable. We'll see.
- eddieplan9 2y agoSteve Jobs famously said Dropbox is a feature not a product. This feels very much like it.
- nextworddev 2y agoWell, Dropbox is a sub $8bn company now that hasn't really grown in 5 years, so maybe Steve was right?
- dymk 2y agoLooking at their stock performance and the amount of work they’ve put into features that aren’t Dropbox file sync, he appears to have been right. iCloud doc syncing is what DB offered at that time.
- joegibbs 2y agoI think he was right - now you've got OneDrive automatically bundled into Windows, iCloud in MacOS, Google Cloud in the Google ecosystem and Dropbox down 25% from IPO with no growth. I get nagging emails from them every month or so asking me to upgrade to a paid plan because I'll definitely not regret it.
- halotrope 2y agoyeah somehow it reminded me of the fb integration too. we‘ll see how well it works in practice. i was hoping for them to show the sky demo with the new voice mode that openai recently demoed
- cyanydeez 2y agoApple is also claiming they are gonna go privacy protecting AI. I'm quite skeptical of Apple.