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Recovery after HP tech support bricked my father's laptop
- bell-cot 2y agoSo sad. I still have my (working) HP 11C and HP 15C calculators, from the early 1980's. But HP was still a decent company, back then.
- cmbernard333 2y agoGreat read. Hopefully others find this useful if they are in a similar situation. HP support is appalling.
- jonathantf2 2y agoHP make nice monitors and that's about it, every other product of theirs is utter trash now - I advise everybody I know to steer clear of any of their stuff. They're on my shit-company list, right at the top with GoDaddy.
- mtsr 2y agoIt’s a shame, their small form-factor business notebooks were once really good. Swappable batteries, worked well with Linux (apart from the touchpad drivers that were just bad for all brands back then).
- SoftTalker 2y agoTheir servers always seemed pretty nice back in the day, though I don't have any experience since the HPE spin-off.
- jonathantf2 2y agoHPE stuff is fine imo, networking stuff is decent and the servers still have some quirks from the HP days but other than that are great.
- h3xk1tt3n 2y agoWhen I was a tech I hated their servers so much. It was super easy to damage them when taking them apart, and their raid controllers would cause dban to crash. I did liked the Z400 workstation, though, since it could secure erase drives without having to go to sleep to unfreeze the drives.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- shermantanktop 2y agoI’ve never had much success once the bricking gets to this point. Nice to see such a detailed write up, though this is probably the exception that proves the rule.
- nolongerthere 2y ago[dead]
- nolongerthere 2y agoImpressive that he had the tools to flash the chip but it’s absolutely ridiculous that HP and all companies in general can get away with this sort of nonsense, voiding the warranty should be an easy small claims court appeal.
- user_7832 2y agoI wonder if there are people who disagree with you, because I can't think of why someone would've flagged your comment.
- nolongerthere 2y ago[dead]
- ielillo 2y agoI think the main lesson is that if you are going to send something for warranty, better to send it as original as possible, otherwise they are going to claim that your modification was the cause of the issue.
- db48x 2y agoYep. It’s illegal but they’ll keep doing it as long as people don’t take them to court.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jasomill 2y agoThat, or they won't notice at all, and when a repair calls for replacing the logic board, say, they'll replace it with one pre-populated with whatever components match the BOM on file for your system, sending the original board populated with your aftermarket components for refurbishing and/or recycling without a second thought.
- croes 2y agoA fallback BIOS should be standard by now Didn't Gigabyte put that onto their mainboards
- rzzzt 2y agoYes, around 2009: https://www.techpowerup.com/96967/dualbios-becomes-standard-feature-for-all-gigabyte-motherboards https://www.techpowerup.com/96967/dualbios-becomes-standard-...
- jonathanlydall 2y agoGigabyte has had dual bios motherboards since 1999, but made it standard for all their motherboards in 2009. https://www.gigabyte.com/Press/News/795 https://www.gigabyte.com/Press/News/795 As I recall, they initially introduced this feature due to a virus around the time which would intentionally corrupt BIOSes.
- patrakov 2y agoThe CIH virus? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_(computer_virus)
- sebazzz 2y agoAnd any server has them. And for all the crap Lenovo laptops are these days; they also have backup BIOS. Funnily enough, most BIOS updates end with a "self-healing backup progressing" screen nowadays - which makes me wonder: do they overwrite the backup and abuse that mechanism to update the primary bios?
- jsiepkes 2y ago> Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act it is illegal for HP to renege on their warranty unless the reason for warranty work is demonstrably due to the consumer's changes. Aside from what would be morally right to do I doubt HP is legally compelled to repair it. I'm guessing that since this was handled under "extended warranty" the rules of your "minimum legal warranty" don't apply since those have already expired. So the rules of the agreement of the "extended warranty" apply. Which as far as I know is basically just a sort of insurance product with it's own agreement. Guess it's a pretty safe bet the terms contain a clause about not allowing modifications to the product in any form.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- balozi 2y agoA major vendor did something similar to us about a decade ago. Brand new notebooks bricked after the vendor's tech support directed us to install a "required" system update. Vendor claimed that they we're not liable for the damage and pointed to their End User Agreement and Warranty policy. Turns out they had clauses that stated that the vendor was not responsible for damage to devices caused by firmware or BIOS updates. We would later learn that the required system update included a BIOS update responsible for the damage. Its been over a decade since we've even considered a purchase from them again.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- focusedone 2y agoNo human on this planet has gone to that much trouble to repair an Envy before. Bravo! I think we've all been frustrated by HP/Dell/Others support. This guy took it to the next level to prove it's not the freaking ram. Nicely done.
- nick238 2y agoTechnically awesome, but policy-wise, sic Tech Jesus from Gamers Nexus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pMrssIrKcY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pMrssIrKcY) and/or Louis Rossmann on HP!
- dirtsoc 2y agoI got a HP Spectre x360 around 2018 and it was the worst laptop I ever owned. Ever since that experience I steer clear of HP stuff.
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoRelated context: HP bricks customers laptops with faulty automatic BIOS upgrade https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601711
- renewiltord 2y agoIncredible work. Dual BIOS setups seem like they require very little more PCB space and will cut down on returns. I wonder why manufacturers don't do this. Perhaps the numbers just don't pencil out and it's better to handle the risk of failure.
- molticrystal 2y ago> would have been much easier if I'd had a Bus Pirate and SOP8 adapter to clip onto the IC while it was still on the motherboard. >I decide to remove it from the motherboard For those who want to avoid soldering(unavoidable if chip is bad), SOP8 clips are very cheap on ebay. There are many alternatives to the STM32 dev board used in the article, common ones are raspberry pi's such as the zero w(what I tend to use, requires some config changes), but also SPI to USB adapters for PC. Always read the flash several times to increase the likelihood you got an error free read, and also read it after writing as well. Having a working setup able to read and write spi flash is very inexpensive and a handy emergency skill to have.
- h3xk1tt3n 2y agoI used one of those clips and a raspberry pi to reflash an HP all-in-one that was bricked. I was super proud of it, but then it was destroyed in shipping on its way to the customer.
- Scoundreller 2y agoI miss rs232 and parallel ports that made stuff like this trivially easy with just diodes and resistors.
- widerporst 2y agoI'm continually amazed by the (lack of) quality of their laptops and the scenario described really reinforced my opinion of HP. At work, I've used a ProBook, a ZBook, and two EliteBooks, all of which had major issues. Sleep mode never worked on any of them (immediately turning back on again with powercfg /lastwake showing no reason), and my current EliteBook frequently shuts off without warning and then won't turn on for five minutes. The ProBook and one EliteBook failed randomly and needed to be replaced. The ZBook's workstation CPU overheated even at light usage, making it unbearably slow. Despite IT saying nothing could (and should) be done, I disassembled it and found it was missing thermal paste, or what little there was had hardened into a brittle, useless mess. Reapplying thermal paste about tripled the Cinebench score. Given all this ridiculousness, I can't imagine how much worse their consumer laptops must be. It's baffling how anyone but the most naive non-tech people still buys from them.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Tade0 2y agoMy manager's company-issued HP EliteBook is actually the third device he's had during the last three years, as the previous units failed without warning. Nowadays if I don't see him on the standup I assume it's this problem again. Kind of reminds me of the darkest days of MBPs and their failing keyboards. My work laptop is doing ok so far with only minor annoyances like needing to reconnect peripherals after waking up the device, but that's it. Meanwhile I cooked the screen in my Asus personal machine because it assumed that sleep = 100% CPU. Thermal paste was of course cooked as well, so I had to replace it. All in all I'm glad that Framework expanded into my country recently. It's expensive for what it offers, but half the reason I'll be ordering one is spite.
- nusl 2y agoHP is an all-round abomination of a company.
- jgrahamc 2y agoThis is a very cool story. I've messed around with SPI flash stuff both using Pomona clips and also individual per pin clips: https://blog.jgc.org/2023/05/an-unexpected-journey-making-yogasleep.html https://blog.jgc.org/2023/05/an-unexpected-journey-making-yo...
- heartag 2y agoThanks for sharing. I love how detailed that writeup is. And you used the tools that I wasn't smart enough to employ for mine.
- didip 2y agoOther lessons one can take from this: * Never buy an HP. * For personal use, one should also treat computers as cattle, not pets. Always automatically backup to at least 2 different locations.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pugworthy 2y agoCareful you don't overgeneralize too much. You're probably basing this on home/small office product lines, which is not all HP does. HP has some pretty interesting and successful products such as the Life Sciences dispensers for cells and fluids (see https://www.hp.com/us-en/specialty-printing-solutions/life-science-dispensing.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/specialty-printing-solutions/life-s...). Then there are the industrial printing products (https://www.hp.com/us-en/industrial-digital-presses.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/industrial-digital-presses.html) which are rather mind bogglingly fast and capable. Imagine a printer printing to a paper roll 40" wide at hundreds of feet per second, and the printing is paper statements to be cut and sorted for mailing.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- casenmgreen 2y agoLong time ago, I had a similar - but worse - experience with Sony, with a Vaio laptop. Ultra-high end laptop, and I had also paid for and fitted an Intel X25-E, the very first and single-cell ultra high performance SSD. Laptop was 2k euro, drive was another 700 euro. After a year or two, the fan begins to run loud - that's fine, normal event. Laptop is sent back under warranty for fan replacement. Laptop returns with a new motherboard (and as such, the SIM I left in the motherboard was missing). Windows does NOT like having the motherboard changed underneath it, and was royally confused on boot, and no longer worked correctly. I explain this to Support, and that it takes a month for a fresh install of Windows to be fully up to speed. Laptop is sent back again. Support then sends me an invoice : their solution to having fucked up Windows is to remove my 700 euro X25-E drive and charge me 400 euro to install a new standard Sony spinning-platter drive with a fresh install of Windows on it. I gave up with Sony, got my laptop back, reinstalled Windows, and never had anything to do with them again.
- OptionOfT 2y agoI'm truing to understand here what you were expecting the outcome to be? Your old motherboard back, but fixed?
- tiberious726 2y agoI think they just wanted the fan replaced....
- dishsoap 2y agoThat's very surprising that the image from the firmware update alone is sufficient to boot the machine. On the overwhelming majority of laptops, the update capsules don't contain the NVRAM sections (so no set or default values for any settings) and typically this is enough to prevent the firmware from booting the machine. It's also interesting/impressive how much work the author went through to reinvent the wheel with his own custom microcontroller setup for reading and flashing the EEPROM when there are so many cheap off the shelf solutions available (that can read and program hundreds of times faster than it sounds like his did).
- BoredPositron 2y agoThe desoldering did it for me but good for him if it works in the end. It could be done by way less technical people with the proper (cheap) tools though. The article is a bit of a double edged sword because of it.
- heartag 2y agoI agree. The situation was me trying to use materials on-hand, but it makes the writeup less useful.
- Rudism 2y agoIt's too bad the author didn't think to restore the factory RAM before shipping it. My unrelenting cynicism always makes me very careful to hide any evidence of tinkering on the rare occasions when I need to send a tech product off for warranty repairs.
- heartag 2y agoThe laptop was purchased with upgraded RAM, so there wasn't any OEM sticks to swap in. That is a good idea if possible though.
- yelling_cat 2y agoWhen I was a kid HP products were well-supported and famed for their durability. My dad still uses the HP scientific calculator his father bought in the '70s and my uncle has an old PC hooked up to a '90s LaserJet printer that works perfectly well. Retired engineers I've talked to gush about working there in the HP Way days, they were respected and got to create fantastic products that their customers loved. Now "HP" is a curse word to anyone in tech. It's a damn shame.
- heartag 2y agoI feel like a lot of companies went that way. I have one of those HP calculators, and it was fantastic.
- JoeAltmaier 2y agoFor a long time HP bought their motherboards as 'a spot-buy on the open market'. Meaning, whatever overseas supplier promised the cheapest price for a given spec. That must have been part of the erosion of the 'HPWay'?
- Scoundreller 2y agoThe old school cooked BIOS method (or flash programming of anything if it was the same chip) was to boot a similar and good board to its bios updater, hot swap the bad chip and the good chip, and then execute the updater to write on the bad chip. But life was easier when this stuff was socketed.
- c2h5oh 2y agoReport warranty fraud here https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/form/main?TC=RightToRepair https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/form/main?TC=RightToRepair more info https://gamersnexus.net/gn-extras-news/gamersnexus-warranty-response-kit https://gamersnexus.net/gn-extras-news/gamersnexus-warranty-...
- heartag 2y agoThank you!
- pugworthy 2y agoRepeating a reply to a comment here, but I think it needs to be said. People need to be careful they don't overgeneralize too much about HP. Especially if basing opinions on home/small office product lines, which is not all HP does. I'll fully agree that the bad rep due to home/small office products is probably well deserved. But HP has some pretty interesting and successful products such as the Life Sciences dispensers for cells and fluids (see https://www.hp.com/us-en/specialty-printing-solutions/life-s https://www.hp.com/us-en/specialty-printing-solutions/life-s...). Then there are the industrial printing products (https://www.hp.com/us-en/industrial-digital-presses.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/industrial-digital-presses.html) which are rather mind bogglingly fast and capable. Imagine a printer printing to a paper roll 40" wide at hundreds of feet per second, and the printing is paper statements to be cut and sorted for mailing.
- sorokod 2y agoThat people will generalize is something that HP should consider when they "comingle" their various divisions.
- tiberious726 2y agoEh, it's not just home/small office. Their proliant servers took a pretty big nosedive around Gen 9 or so. I'm sure they still have some nice specialized industrial equipment, but their general purpose computers, even on the high end, just aren't what they used to be
- foxandmouse 2y agoPlanned obsolescence, Lack of innovation, High cost of consumables, Inadequate software support, Inconsistent product quality, Poor customer service.. not sure why you feel the need to defend them. They're prolly the one of the worst companies alive..
- punishedmagnus 2y agoThis commenter is almost certainly a paid guerilla marketing shill for HP. The fact they have the top comment just takes the cake.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoWouldn't they have grounds to sue for damage for his labor cost now? That could be a big amount, given how much time they spent fixing this laptop. Isn't there ground for fraud too, given how support pretended the problem was something totally unrelated?
- botanical 2y agoHP is a terrible company and should be boycotted. I've had problems with their whole range from printers to laptops. Lenovo is a superior alternative.