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> So it's a bit like "why don't people wear a welding mask while cooking?" Your kitchen does not have staff telling you to make sure you are wearing a welding

> So it's a bit like "why don't people wear a welding mask while cooking?" Your kitchen does not have staff telling you to make sure you are wearing a welding mask. It may also lack appropriate indicator lamps that tell you when it is a good time to wear your welding mask. It is also not standard practice in all kitchens. It’s actually not like airplane seatbelts at all, where they are ubiquitous and the risks of not wearing them are fairly well-documented.

andybak 2y ago
> Your kitchen does not have staff telling you to make sure you are wearing a welding mask. The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear and emphatic. They often make it sound like something they have to say to cover their asses. There's certainly no clear comms around the risk of death and serious injury. I have no idea in this case whether the indicators went on in time but I obviously wasn't arguing in favour of ignoring those. > the risks of not wearing them are fairly well-documented. Where? Where would I have seen this documentation? I'm 53 and I have no recollection of stumbling across it. (also - please reconsider your tone next time. It feels like you're trying to get me riled up)
- schmookeeg 2y ago
  Yes, they say it to cover their asses -- for the very very rare occasion when an unbelted passenger ends up stuffed into the overhead lighting panel or carry-on baggage compartments. :) Seat belts in cars also contain several CYA-grade chimes and buzzers. The owner manual may mention risk of injury or death. Likely an airline's contract of carriage contains the same. I suspect both are read as often and as eagerly by their users. I think the multiple "off tone" messages you're getting are in response to your use of ignorance as a defense for ignoring airplane crew instructions.
  - andybak 2y ago
    > [..] in response to your use of ignorance as a defense for ignoring airplane crew instructions. Unless I come from an alternate universe - most people wear their seatbelt during take-off and landing and when the seatbelt light comes on. I wear mine through most of the flight but I only started doing this fairly recently because I learned more about turbulence. I'm not defending ignorance at all. I'm simply describing how poorly the risks are communicated and the reality that most people I've observed don't wear seatbelts for the entire duration of a flight unless the warning light comes on.
    - gilbetron 2y ago
      Nearly every flight they state that you should keep your seatbelt buckled at all times. If someone decides that they don't need to do that, it is because of their willful ignorance, sorry.
    - schmookeeg 2y ago
      If they spent the time to describe all of the rare-yet-possible ways a person could die on an airliner, the thing would never leave the gate. At some level, take their mandated-by-regulations word for it? -- these regs are written in blood, and they say to buckle your belt, not only when the sign is lighted, but also any time when seated at your seat. Boeing has done a good job of reminding us of some non-turbulence reasons to buckle up. You might also get sucked out of an unsecured exit door plug on a 737. :) I haven't heard that one mentioned in a safety brief yet. In the pilot circles I frequent, the joke about seatbelts is that it helps accident investigators more easily count the deceased among the wreckage. So there's some YOLO fuel for your next trip. This was a freak occurrence. It's sad and it sucks. The injuries to passengers were likely preventable -- less so the cabin crew. New word is that the fatality was a cardiac event -- no belt buckle helps anyone there.
      - cedilla 2y ago
        People who follow all safety instructions endure fewer light injuries, severe injuries and fatalities. Pilots who joke about seatbelts are just an example of professionals being hilariously wrong (or sardonic) about a topic adjacent to their expertise. Or they were just joking about their usefullness in an uncontrolled crash landing, which is extremely rare. In this case, a seat belt would have likely saved the person - heavily injuring yourself is quite traumatic (tautologically) which increases the risk of cardiac events. In any case, injuries due to turbulence are extremely common as far as injuries in airliners go.
    - spacedcowboy 2y ago
      I think maybe you come from an alternate universe. It’s been standard procedure for at least 3 decades to wear your seatbelt, even if loosely, all the time you’re on a plane, apart from when going to the loo or otherwise moving around. I mean, I don’t really know how to say it without sounding like a git. This is simply what you do. What “everyone” does, for a loose definition of everyone. The “everyone” that wears seatbelts in a car, for example. Genuine question: you know you should wear seatbelts if traveling in the rear seats of a car as well, yes ?
- lm28469 2y ago
  > The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear > Where? Where would I have seen this documentation? I'm 53 and I have no recollection of stumbling across it. Besides the bright "buckle your belt" sign in front of you and the little leaflet that says "buckle your belt" at arms reach ? https://www.travelandleisure.com/thmb/K-qKcdwWTPYlcarQsYPkR3bSvbs=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/seat-belt-sign-airplane-FLASHINGBELT0218-abe199337ad04b10b76be54446c78591.jpg https://www.travelandleisure.com/thmb/K-qKcdwWTPYlcarQsYPkR3...
  - andybak 2y ago
    You mean the seatbelt light that is sometimes on but mostly off? There's some weird disconnect in this thread. People seem to be completely misinterpreting me at every step.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I agree with this. The seatbelt light is as anachronistic as the no-smoking light. They should just keep it on at all times. People obviously are still incorrectly interpreting "seatbelt light off" as "I should take my seatbelt off now."
      - esoterica 2y ago
        The seatbelt sign tells you whether or not you are allowed to get up and move around. Unlike the no-smoking light it has actual informational content.
  - stouset 2y ago
    And, frankly, the simple existence of turbulence? It’s not like the pilots can see a giant messy region of air up ahead. Sometimes they’ll know the flight overall will be rough and can warn you but generally most times they tell you to fasten your seat belts some turbulence has already happened. A plane the other day dove suddenly out of nowhere. Less recently a door plug blew off a plane and nobody was sucked out thanks to seatbelts. Before that, a flight departing Hawaii fell a few hundred feet without warning shortly after takeoff. These all happened very publicly and with widespread media coverage. Frankly, if you fly a few times a year and never wear your belt you’ll probably be fine. But it takes zero effort and doesn’t need to be strapped particularly tight to be effective. There’s essentially zero reason not to wear it and it can save your life. Sometimes you just have to use a little of your own intelligence.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  > The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear and emphatic. They often make it sound like something they have to say to cover their asses. There's certainly no clear comms around the risk of death and serious injury. I can't remember the last time I was on a plane where they didn't recommend keeping a seatbelt on at all times. Here is the BA brief saying to do just that time 1:55: https://youtu.be/gBGbDQbwzWU?si=5KS4LTEcDmtQKJH_ https://youtu.be/gBGbDQbwzWU?si=5KS4LTEcDmtQKJH_ Here is the United one where they mention it at 0:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LSKVAH4WA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LSKVAH4WA I can't imagine anything more clear than starting the seatbelt briefing: "It is important to have your safety belt on at all times" They end it with: "In case of unexpected turbulence keep your seatbelt fastened, even when the seatbelt sign is off." Its literally the first and last things that United tells you about your seatbelt.
etrautmann 2y ago
People are constantly bombarded with seemingly unnecessary warnings. I frequently assume that these warnings are to insulate a company from legal trouble and not really to protect me. This might be an American perspective.
- dalyons 2y ago
  See: many airlines that still warn to put your phones in airplane mode, despite that being known nonsense for decades
  - ghaff 2y ago
    It may still be a good idea because of battery but basically no one cares. Contra early days of smartphones when there near altercations with passengers responding to one last email after the doors closed.
  - miki123211 2y ago
    It's not "known nonsense", but not for the reason you think. There's a small risk of your phone connecting to some random carrier located in whatever country you're currently flying over. For some smaller / third-world countries, this can be quite expensive, cents-per-megabyte isn't unheard of.
    - avar 2y ago
      Every time this is brought up people come out of the woodworks with post-hoc rationale for this rule that has no basis in historical fact. This comment is good example. Why would the FAA and other aviation regulatory agencies care about your phone bill?
      - miki123211 2y ago
        It's not the reason the rule was implemented, it's not something the FAA cares about, but this doesn't change the fact that it's still a good idea in some cases, rule or no rule.

andybak 2y ago

> Your kitchen does not have staff telling you to make sure you are wearing a welding mask. The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear and emphatic. They often make it sound like something they have to say to cover their asses. There's certainly no clear comms around the risk of death and serious injury. I have no idea in this case whether the indicators went on in time but I obviously wasn't arguing in favour of ignoring those. > the risks of not wearing them are fairly well-documented. Where? Where would I have seen this documentation? I'm 53 and I have no recollection of stumbling across it. (also - please reconsider your tone next time. It feels like you're trying to get me riled up)

schmookeeg 2y ago
Yes, they say it to cover their asses -- for the very very rare occasion when an unbelted passenger ends up stuffed into the overhead lighting panel or carry-on baggage compartments. :) Seat belts in cars also contain several CYA-grade chimes and buzzers. The owner manual may mention risk of injury or death. Likely an airline's contract of carriage contains the same. I suspect both are read as often and as eagerly by their users. I think the multiple "off tone" messages you're getting are in response to your use of ignorance as a defense for ignoring airplane crew instructions.
- andybak 2y ago
  > [..] in response to your use of ignorance as a defense for ignoring airplane crew instructions. Unless I come from an alternate universe - most people wear their seatbelt during take-off and landing and when the seatbelt light comes on. I wear mine through most of the flight but I only started doing this fairly recently because I learned more about turbulence. I'm not defending ignorance at all. I'm simply describing how poorly the risks are communicated and the reality that most people I've observed don't wear seatbelts for the entire duration of a flight unless the warning light comes on.
  - gilbetron 2y ago
    Nearly every flight they state that you should keep your seatbelt buckled at all times. If someone decides that they don't need to do that, it is because of their willful ignorance, sorry.
  - schmookeeg 2y ago
    If they spent the time to describe all of the rare-yet-possible ways a person could die on an airliner, the thing would never leave the gate. At some level, take their mandated-by-regulations word for it? -- these regs are written in blood, and they say to buckle your belt, not only when the sign is lighted, but also any time when seated at your seat. Boeing has done a good job of reminding us of some non-turbulence reasons to buckle up. You might also get sucked out of an unsecured exit door plug on a 737. :) I haven't heard that one mentioned in a safety brief yet. In the pilot circles I frequent, the joke about seatbelts is that it helps accident investigators more easily count the deceased among the wreckage. So there's some YOLO fuel for your next trip. This was a freak occurrence. It's sad and it sucks. The injuries to passengers were likely preventable -- less so the cabin crew. New word is that the fatality was a cardiac event -- no belt buckle helps anyone there.
    - cedilla 2y ago
      People who follow all safety instructions endure fewer light injuries, severe injuries and fatalities. Pilots who joke about seatbelts are just an example of professionals being hilariously wrong (or sardonic) about a topic adjacent to their expertise. Or they were just joking about their usefullness in an uncontrolled crash landing, which is extremely rare. In this case, a seat belt would have likely saved the person - heavily injuring yourself is quite traumatic (tautologically) which increases the risk of cardiac events. In any case, injuries due to turbulence are extremely common as far as injuries in airliners go.
  - spacedcowboy 2y ago
    I think maybe you come from an alternate universe. It’s been standard procedure for at least 3 decades to wear your seatbelt, even if loosely, all the time you’re on a plane, apart from when going to the loo or otherwise moving around. I mean, I don’t really know how to say it without sounding like a git. This is simply what you do. What “everyone” does, for a loose definition of everyone. The “everyone” that wears seatbelts in a car, for example. Genuine question: you know you should wear seatbelts if traveling in the rear seats of a car as well, yes ?
lm28469 2y ago
> The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear > Where? Where would I have seen this documentation? I'm 53 and I have no recollection of stumbling across it. Besides the bright "buckle your belt" sign in front of you and the little leaflet that says "buckle your belt" at arms reach ? https://www.travelandleisure.com/thmb/K-qKcdwWTPYlcarQsYPkR3bSvbs=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/seat-belt-sign-airplane-FLASHINGBELT0218-abe199337ad04b10b76be54446c78591.jpg https://www.travelandleisure.com/thmb/K-qKcdwWTPYlcarQsYPkR3...
- andybak 2y ago
  You mean the seatbelt light that is sometimes on but mostly off? There's some weird disconnect in this thread. People seem to be completely misinterpreting me at every step.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I agree with this. The seatbelt light is as anachronistic as the no-smoking light. They should just keep it on at all times. People obviously are still incorrectly interpreting "seatbelt light off" as "I should take my seatbelt off now."
    - esoterica 2y ago
      The seatbelt sign tells you whether or not you are allowed to get up and move around. Unlike the no-smoking light it has actual informational content.
- stouset 2y ago
  And, frankly, the simple existence of turbulence? It’s not like the pilots can see a giant messy region of air up ahead. Sometimes they’ll know the flight overall will be rough and can warn you but generally most times they tell you to fasten your seat belts some turbulence has already happened. A plane the other day dove suddenly out of nowhere. Less recently a door plug blew off a plane and nobody was sucked out thanks to seatbelts. Before that, a flight departing Hawaii fell a few hundred feet without warning shortly after takeoff. These all happened very publicly and with widespread media coverage. Frankly, if you fly a few times a year and never wear your belt you’ll probably be fine. But it takes zero effort and doesn’t need to be strapped particularly tight to be effective. There’s essentially zero reason not to wear it and it can save your life. Sometimes you just have to use a little of your own intelligence.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
> The advice to wear your seat belt throughout the flight are hardly clear and emphatic. They often make it sound like something they have to say to cover their asses. There's certainly no clear comms around the risk of death and serious injury. I can't remember the last time I was on a plane where they didn't recommend keeping a seatbelt on at all times. Here is the BA brief saying to do just that time 1:55: https://youtu.be/gBGbDQbwzWU?si=5KS4LTEcDmtQKJH_ https://youtu.be/gBGbDQbwzWU?si=5KS4LTEcDmtQKJH_ Here is the United one where they mention it at 0:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LSKVAH4WA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LSKVAH4WA I can't imagine anything more clear than starting the seatbelt briefing: "It is important to have your safety belt on at all times" They end it with: "In case of unexpected turbulence keep your seatbelt fastened, even when the seatbelt sign is off." Its literally the first and last things that United tells you about your seatbelt.

etrautmann 2y ago

People are constantly bombarded with seemingly unnecessary warnings. I frequently assume that these warnings are to insulate a company from legal trouble and not really to protect me. This might be an American perspective.

dalyons 2y ago
See: many airlines that still warn to put your phones in airplane mode, despite that being known nonsense for decades
- ghaff 2y ago
  It may still be a good idea because of battery but basically no one cares. Contra early days of smartphones when there near altercations with passengers responding to one last email after the doors closed.
- miki123211 2y ago
  It's not "known nonsense", but not for the reason you think. There's a small risk of your phone connecting to some random carrier located in whatever country you're currently flying over. For some smaller / third-world countries, this can be quite expensive, cents-per-megabyte isn't unheard of.
  - avar 2y ago
    Every time this is brought up people come out of the woodworks with post-hoc rationale for this rule that has no basis in historical fact. This comment is good example. Why would the FAA and other aviation regulatory agencies care about your phone bill?
    - miki123211 2y ago
      It's not the reason the rule was implemented, it's not something the FAA cares about, but this doesn't change the fact that it's still a good idea in some cases, rule or no rule.