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TSMC has moved many engineers from Taiwan to Phoenix. Entire towns were built with accomodation, schools, ethnic grocery stores from scratch. It would be intere

by wuj 2y ago

TSMC has moved many engineers from Taiwan to Phoenix. Entire towns were built with accomodation, schools, ethnic grocery stores from scratch. It would be interesting to see this initiative's cultural and economic impact on Phoenix in the years to come.

psaux 2y ago
I did not know this, I have family in Tempe close by. Do you have any references I can pass along to them?
- wuj 2y ago
  Here is an article from Phoenix Business Journal: https://archive.ph/dYCAF https://archive.ph/dYCAF > With Taiwanese transplants moving to north Phoenix in droves, Arizona officials — and a local baker — are working behind the scenes to make them feel welcome
- gjkood 2y ago
  I believe the new term for Phoenix, AZ and other major cities in AZ is "Silicon Desert". You can see a map of the many companies in the high tech space in AZ at the following site. https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/ https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/
  - davidgay 2y ago
    Major semiconductor manufacturing in Arizona is not exactly new: Motorola had fabs there in the 70s (or earlier?), Intel's presence dates to 1980, etc. The article [1] below from 2001 says that Arizona was "3rd in chipmaking"... [1] https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=0038111X&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Eadfe2077&aty=open-web-entry https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleSc...
  - zdw 2y ago
    Being an AZ resident, this map is hilarious as it skips out the ~100 mile distance between Chandler and Tucson. Tucson is more well known for optics, but more focused on space science than on use in silicon fabs.
jonhohle 2y ago
I’m not sure where “towns” (plural) are being built. The first plant is across the highway from a master planned community that was built 20 years ago, long before any fabs were being discussed in that area. There certainly is a lot of development there, but it’s not like a factory town or anything. There’s an outdoor recreational shooting facility across the street. I can only assume that is a huge culture shock for anyone coming over from Taiwan.
navigate8310 2y ago
Here's another fascinating article about the cultural struggles faced by TSMC in order to expand in Phoenix: https://restofworld.org/2024/tsmc-arizona-expansion/ https://restofworld.org/2024/tsmc-arizona-expansion/
- onthecanposting 2y ago
  Honestly, this sounds like normal life being a junior employee at a big company. An ossified clique of old guard managers pick winners and losers with little regard for merit? Unbelievable bureaucratic overhead? Your boss expects you to flatter and fawn all over him because he allows you to work 50-60hrs a week at 80% the median salary without overtime pay? Sorry to say, this is just what they're all like. Do good work, make friends, and try to get a job at a small company where people treat each other decently and incompetents can't hide in the crowd.
wslh 2y ago
Could we say this is the "Manhattan or Apollo 11 Project for Chips"? For its articulation. BTW, about this topic, I always recall "A View To Kill" James Bond's (1985) movie [1]. The top hit in the soundtrack from Duran Duran [2] is also recommended and playing in radios even today. Seems like Intel passed the torch long time ago but don't forget to read the mantra book: "Only the Paranoid Survive" [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_View_to_a_Kill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_View_to_a_Kill [2] https://open.spotify.com/track/6I4snLrVOrJsLdd43isc27?si=7ba0c55e669d4747 https://open.spotify.com/track/6I4snLrVOrJsLdd43isc27?si=7ba... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove#Books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove#Books
jacobsimon 2y ago
I’m hugely supportive of the new factories and investments, but I’m curious why they decided on Phoenix which seems to be affected dramatically by climate change and incidentally has a very different climate and culture from Taiwan.
- 11thEarlOfMar 2y ago
  There are already a number of fabs there. Intel has a big presence. Government support, infranstructure and an experienced (although insufficient at this point) workforce are already there. The reason there is a chip fab activity in Phoenix goes back to 1949 [0] when Motorola built a lab there. In 1952, they started making semiconductors and eventually chips. [0] https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=0038111X&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ef79c90d7&aty=open-web-entry https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleSc...
- icey 2y ago
  A few possible reasons: Cheap & reliable electricity (https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/arizona-power-outages-electic-grid https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/arizona-power...), low seismic activity (https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/briefcase-taiwan-earthquake-puts-spotlight-back-on-chip-supply.html https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/brief...), existing semiconductor supporting industries (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and a politically favorable business environment.
brailsafe 2y ago
Snowbirds from Winnipeg will quickly get outcompeted for foreign vacation rentals/properties lmao

by wuj 2y ago

psaux 2y ago

I did not know this, I have family in Tempe close by. Do you have any references I can pass along to them?

wuj 2y ago
Here is an article from Phoenix Business Journal: https://archive.ph/dYCAF https://archive.ph/dYCAF > With Taiwanese transplants moving to north Phoenix in droves, Arizona officials — and a local baker — are working behind the scenes to make them feel welcome
gjkood 2y ago
I believe the new term for Phoenix, AZ and other major cities in AZ is "Silicon Desert". You can see a map of the many companies in the high tech space in AZ at the following site. https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/ https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/
- davidgay 2y ago
  Major semiconductor manufacturing in Arizona is not exactly new: Motorola had fabs there in the 70s (or earlier?), Intel's presence dates to 1980, etc. The article [1] below from 2001 says that Arizona was "3rd in chipmaking"... [1] https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=0038111X&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Eadfe2077&aty=open-web-entry https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleSc...
- zdw 2y ago
  Being an AZ resident, this map is hilarious as it skips out the ~100 mile distance between Chandler and Tucson. Tucson is more well known for optics, but more focused on space science than on use in silicon fabs.

jonhohle 2y ago

I’m not sure where “towns” (plural) are being built. The first plant is across the highway from a master planned community that was built 20 years ago, long before any fabs were being discussed in that area. There certainly is a lot of development there, but it’s not like a factory town or anything. There’s an outdoor recreational shooting facility across the street. I can only assume that is a huge culture shock for anyone coming over from Taiwan.

navigate8310 2y ago

Here's another fascinating article about the cultural struggles faced by TSMC in order to expand in Phoenix: https://restofworld.org/2024/tsmc-arizona-expansion/ https://restofworld.org/2024/tsmc-arizona-expansion/

onthecanposting 2y ago
Honestly, this sounds like normal life being a junior employee at a big company. An ossified clique of old guard managers pick winners and losers with little regard for merit? Unbelievable bureaucratic overhead? Your boss expects you to flatter and fawn all over him because he allows you to work 50-60hrs a week at 80% the median salary without overtime pay? Sorry to say, this is just what they're all like. Do good work, make friends, and try to get a job at a small company where people treat each other decently and incompetents can't hide in the crowd.

wslh 2y ago

Could we say this is the "Manhattan or Apollo 11 Project for Chips"? For its articulation. BTW, about this topic, I always recall "A View To Kill" James Bond's (1985) movie [1]. The top hit in the soundtrack from Duran Duran [2] is also recommended and playing in radios even today. Seems like Intel passed the torch long time ago but don't forget to read the mantra book: "Only the Paranoid Survive" [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_View_to_a_Kill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_View_to_a_Kill [2] https://open.spotify.com/track/6I4snLrVOrJsLdd43isc27?si=7ba0c55e669d4747 https://open.spotify.com/track/6I4snLrVOrJsLdd43isc27?si=7ba... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove#Books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove#Books

jacobsimon 2y ago

I’m hugely supportive of the new factories and investments, but I’m curious why they decided on Phoenix which seems to be affected dramatically by climate change and incidentally has a very different climate and culture from Taiwan.

11thEarlOfMar 2y ago
There are already a number of fabs there. Intel has a big presence. Government support, infranstructure and an experienced (although insufficient at this point) workforce are already there. The reason there is a chip fab activity in Phoenix goes back to 1949 [0] when Motorola built a lab there. In 1952, they started making semiconductors and eventually chips. [0] https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=0038111X&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ef79c90d7&aty=open-web-entry https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA79561583&sid=googleSc...
icey 2y ago
A few possible reasons: Cheap & reliable electricity (https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/arizona-power-outages-electic-grid https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2024/04/26/arizona-power...), low seismic activity (https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/briefcase-taiwan-earthquake-puts-spotlight-back-on-chip-supply.html https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/brief...), existing semiconductor supporting industries (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and a politically favorable business environment.

brailsafe 2y ago

Snowbirds from Winnipeg will quickly get outcompeted for foreign vacation rentals/properties lmao