8 ms·

Tesla cuts price of Full Self-Driving software by a third to $8k

17 points by dev_tty01 2y ago

i67vw3 2y ago
$5k is the right price for Tesla FSD v12. If it is able to 'remember/recall' individual American roads from its database rather solely relying on neural nets then that would probably change the dynamics of FSD.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  Why American roads?
  - Veserv 2y ago
    Because it can not meet minimum safety standards in other countries, so it is not street legal except in US, Canada, and maybe Mexico(?).
peutetre 2y ago
I feel sorry for the people who paid $15,000: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315270/tesla-full-self-driving-fsd-feature-price-increase-electric-vehicle-elon-musk https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315270/tesla-full-self-... They should demand their money back.
- gruez 2y ago
  Do you also think people "should demand their money back" when they buy a TV, and 31 days later (just outside the return window) there was price drop?
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    I mean, if the CEO of the television company had tweeted: > The FSD price will continue to rise as the software gets closer to full self-driving capability with regulatory approval. It that point, the value of FSD is probably somewhere in excess of $100,000. Then, eh, they might have a case.
  - ado__dev 2y ago
    Considering everyone that bought FSD before this drop still has not been delivered a working product that was promised, they should be within their rights to get the difference back imo. If you buy something and it goes on sale before it’s delivered almost every retailer will price match the difference if you ask.
  - peutetre 2y ago
    Not if the TV worked as advertised. Tesla's so called "full self-driving" has never worked as advertised.
- gofreddygo 2y ago
  Let the lawsuits begin !!
  - newyankee 2y ago
    Is that possible though ? Always wondered about free market logic especially when certain sectors can be priced any ways they want (like healthcare). Are there regulations that cover pricing fluctuations ? My understanding is that most regulations are generally related to essential commodities like groceries and used during emergency times.
    - toast0 2y ago
      Well sure. You can always sue. Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials?
      - gruez 2y ago
        >Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials? That's entirely unrelated to "the people who paid $15,000". It would be applicable even if there wasn't a price cut.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - instagib 2y ago
    There was a person who posted here who sued Tesla and won for not delivering full self driving. Tesla tried to make the person agree to not release anything but he said no and won interest on his payment for FSD. Good read, 6 months ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38146676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38146676
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
projectileboy 2y ago
[flagged]
- readyman 2y ago
  Public funds are ostensibly managed by democracy for the benefit of all of society, while so-called "private" funds are literally managed by dictatorship for the benefit of the dictator. I wouldn't consent to these rules, but most people do so they are the rules, and it's likely the logic behind Elon's thinking.
- tekla 2y ago
  I don't really understand how its even possible to think this is a related topic at all
jazzyjackson 2y ago
I wonder what the marginal cost is to Tesla, whether the price is more of a discriminator (let people with less sensitivity spend whatever they want while hitting a lower price point for those on a budget) or if it's more about slowing the roll out of a beta product, like how alcohol is expensive on trains and airplanes just to slow down the rate at which people get drunk.
- 15155 2y ago
  Marginal cost is likely primarily additional product liability plus amortized R&D - the flag in their database to enable this software is free.
traviswingo 2y ago
I refuse to pay for this. I’m willing to wager it will be free within a reasonable amount of time.
- jwilk 2y ago
  Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/
- paulddraper 2y ago
  Now do TVs
faefox 2y ago
Tesla is flailing.
- klyrs 2y ago
  Last I heard, they were selling hammers; I bet you could smoke Elon out and convince him to add a hinge or chain.
honestqu 2y ago
[flagged]
abhinavk 2y ago
What autonomy level is Tesla's FSD right now?
- ado__dev 2y ago
  2 and it will always be 2 with the current hardware stack.
coolsuds420 2y ago
It’s the most amazing AI system out there. I got fsd a few months ago and the rate of improvement is astonishing, I go about 100-200 miles between disengagements now and have zero intervention drives to the grocery. It’s much better than a regular Uber or Lyft driver. 40k people a year die on American roads and this technology seems like the leading candidate to reduce that dramatically. I highly recommend it.
- qsdf38100 2y ago
  You created a new account just to post this overly positive review?
- everforward 2y ago
  If true, that would be utterly dire for Tesla. 200 miles per disengagement is _bad_. Cruise doesn’t report disengagements that I can tell, but Waymo is at ~17k per disengagement, WeRide is at ~21k and Zoox is 177k. Nissan is at 284, and Apple is at 142, so that would put Tesla about there in performance. That’s a couple of orders of magnitude off from the other players.
Danjoe4 2y ago
This... Is a good thing? Time goes on, production scales up, and and things get cheaper, no? Shame to see the Elon hate on HN, he has made an exceptional product that is kick-starting the green energy revolution.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I own several Teslas, and have a trial of FSD. It is in no way worth $8k or $100/month as long as I have to fully supervise it. I am not interested in paying for Tesla to attempt to justify an unrealistic valuation based on “we’re a robotaxi company.” My auto wipers don’t even work on my “legacy” 2018 Model S. The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist.
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    > The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist. Agreed, and I'd add that while I agree the underlying platform and charging network are exceptional, the finished vehicles themselves are often lacking in polish and are in no way what I would call exceptional. Panel gaps, cheap feeling materials, lack of carplay/android auto (seriously?), lack of a directional signal stalk on recent models, very few physical buttons, all controls and displays in the center of the dash out of the direct line of sight of the driver (at least on the 3/Y/truck), and wildly under-delivering on performance/range/price of the cybertruck vs. the announced specs are all examples I've seen. I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      > I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment. Other brands have to pay for access, and cannot sell EVs without access to the network due to consumer range anxiety. Tesla either gets unit margin, or a cut of legacy auto EV sales for network access. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/tesla-to-earn-billions-from-charging-partnerships-with-ford-others.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/tesla-to-earn-billions-from-...
boznz 2y ago
Not a hater, the M3 is the best car I have ever owned, but based on the fact they cant get the windscreen wipers working properly and auto-pilot keeps braking for no reason, even if they cut it to zero dollars I still wouldnt trust it.
- ojosilva 2y ago
  Same here, except MYLR. We got the car for other reasons (electric, range, spacious, performant) and was extremely surprised by how buggy the, supposedly stellar, software aspects are, in particular these exact same two items: the autopilot and windshield wipers. And no, I was not expecting a self-driving car or anything even close to that. I just wanted the excellent lane assist and adaptive cruise control in my previous Kira Niro upgraded so that it would do traffic jams too. Tesla can't even get the basic lane assist right - the one you have on all the time and keeps your car gently and consistently centered on your lane. ACC is ok but prone to sudden and scary breaking and continuously harassing the driver. Then there's all those alarms and buzzes that scare my kids all the time. They even implemented a "Joe mode" [1] so that it reduces the overall alarm volumes for the kids in the back seat, but it's insufficient for reducing the amount of attention the car requires to just drive semi-autonomous. [1] https://www.slashgear.com/1222581/joe-mode-a-must-know-setting-for-tesla-owners/ https://www.slashgear.com/1222581/joe-mode-a-must-know-setti...

17 points by dev_tty01 2y ago

$5k is the right price for Tesla FSD v12. If it is able to 'remember/recall' individual American roads from its database rather solely relying on neural nets then that would probably change the dynamics of FSD.

thebruce87m 2y ago
Why American roads?
- Veserv 2y ago
  Because it can not meet minimum safety standards in other countries, so it is not street legal except in US, Canada, and maybe Mexico(?).

peutetre 2y ago

I feel sorry for the people who paid $15,000: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315270/tesla-full-self-driving-fsd-feature-price-increase-electric-vehicle-elon-musk https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315270/tesla-full-self-... They should demand their money back.

gruez 2y ago
Do you also think people "should demand their money back" when they buy a TV, and 31 days later (just outside the return window) there was price drop?
- rsynnott 2y ago
  I mean, if the CEO of the television company had tweeted: > The FSD price will continue to rise as the software gets closer to full self-driving capability with regulatory approval. It that point, the value of FSD is probably somewhere in excess of $100,000. Then, eh, they might have a case.
- ado__dev 2y ago
  Considering everyone that bought FSD before this drop still has not been delivered a working product that was promised, they should be within their rights to get the difference back imo. If you buy something and it goes on sale before it’s delivered almost every retailer will price match the difference if you ask.
- peutetre 2y ago
  Not if the TV worked as advertised. Tesla's so called "full self-driving" has never worked as advertised.
gofreddygo 2y ago
Let the lawsuits begin !!
- newyankee 2y ago
  Is that possible though ? Always wondered about free market logic especially when certain sectors can be priced any ways they want (like healthcare). Are there regulations that cover pricing fluctuations ? My understanding is that most regulations are generally related to essential commodities like groceries and used during emergency times.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Well sure. You can always sue. Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials?
    - gruez 2y ago
      >Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials? That's entirely unrelated to "the people who paid $15,000". It would be applicable even if there wasn't a price cut.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- instagib 2y ago
  There was a person who posted here who sued Tesla and won for not delivering full self driving. Tesla tried to make the person agree to not release anything but he said no and won interest on his payment for FSD. Good read, 6 months ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38146676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38146676
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

projectileboy 2y ago

[flagged]

readyman 2y ago
Public funds are ostensibly managed by democracy for the benefit of all of society, while so-called "private" funds are literally managed by dictatorship for the benefit of the dictator. I wouldn't consent to these rules, but most people do so they are the rules, and it's likely the logic behind Elon's thinking.
tekla 2y ago
I don't really understand how its even possible to think this is a related topic at all

jazzyjackson 2y ago

I wonder what the marginal cost is to Tesla, whether the price is more of a discriminator (let people with less sensitivity spend whatever they want while hitting a lower price point for those on a budget) or if it's more about slowing the roll out of a beta product, like how alcohol is expensive on trains and airplanes just to slow down the rate at which people get drunk.

15155 2y ago
Marginal cost is likely primarily additional product liability plus amortized R&D - the flag in their database to enable this software is free.

traviswingo 2y ago

I refuse to pay for this. I’m willing to wager it will be free within a reasonable amount of time.

jwilk 2y ago
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/
paulddraper 2y ago
Now do TVs

faefox 2y ago

Tesla is flailing.

klyrs 2y ago
Last I heard, they were selling hammers; I bet you could smoke Elon out and convince him to add a hinge or chain.

honestqu 2y ago

[flagged]

abhinavk 2y ago

What autonomy level is Tesla's FSD right now?

ado__dev 2y ago
2 and it will always be 2 with the current hardware stack.

coolsuds420 2y ago

It’s the most amazing AI system out there. I got fsd a few months ago and the rate of improvement is astonishing, I go about 100-200 miles between disengagements now and have zero intervention drives to the grocery. It’s much better than a regular Uber or Lyft driver. 40k people a year die on American roads and this technology seems like the leading candidate to reduce that dramatically. I highly recommend it.

qsdf38100 2y ago
You created a new account just to post this overly positive review?
everforward 2y ago
If true, that would be utterly dire for Tesla. 200 miles per disengagement is _bad_. Cruise doesn’t report disengagements that I can tell, but Waymo is at ~17k per disengagement, WeRide is at ~21k and Zoox is 177k. Nissan is at 284, and Apple is at 142, so that would put Tesla about there in performance. That’s a couple of orders of magnitude off from the other players.

Danjoe4 2y ago

This... Is a good thing? Time goes on, production scales up, and and things get cheaper, no? Shame to see the Elon hate on HN, he has made an exceptional product that is kick-starting the green energy revolution.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
I own several Teslas, and have a trial of FSD. It is in no way worth $8k or $100/month as long as I have to fully supervise it. I am not interested in paying for Tesla to attempt to justify an unrealistic valuation based on “we’re a robotaxi company.” My auto wipers don’t even work on my “legacy” 2018 Model S. The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  > The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist. Agreed, and I'd add that while I agree the underlying platform and charging network are exceptional, the finished vehicles themselves are often lacking in polish and are in no way what I would call exceptional. Panel gaps, cheap feeling materials, lack of carplay/android auto (seriously?), lack of a directional signal stalk on recent models, very few physical buttons, all controls and displays in the center of the dash out of the direct line of sight of the driver (at least on the 3/Y/truck), and wildly under-delivering on performance/range/price of the cybertruck vs. the announced specs are all examples I've seen. I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    > I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment. Other brands have to pay for access, and cannot sell EVs without access to the network due to consumer range anxiety. Tesla either gets unit margin, or a cut of legacy auto EV sales for network access. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/tesla-to-earn-billions-from-charging-partnerships-with-ford-others.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/tesla-to-earn-billions-from-...

boznz 2y ago

Not a hater, the M3 is the best car I have ever owned, but based on the fact they cant get the windscreen wipers working properly and auto-pilot keeps braking for no reason, even if they cut it to zero dollars I still wouldnt trust it.

ojosilva 2y ago
Same here, except MYLR. We got the car for other reasons (electric, range, spacious, performant) and was extremely surprised by how buggy the, supposedly stellar, software aspects are, in particular these exact same two items: the autopilot and windshield wipers. And no, I was not expecting a self-driving car or anything even close to that. I just wanted the excellent lane assist and adaptive cruise control in my previous Kira Niro upgraded so that it would do traffic jams too. Tesla can't even get the basic lane assist right - the one you have on all the time and keeps your car gently and consistently centered on your lane. ACC is ok but prone to sudden and scary breaking and continuously harassing the driver. Then there's all those alarms and buzzes that scare my kids all the time. They even implemented a "Joe mode" [1] so that it reduces the overall alarm volumes for the kids in the back seat, but it's insufficient for reducing the amount of attention the car requires to just drive semi-autonomous. [1] https://www.slashgear.com/1222581/joe-mode-a-must-know-setting-for-tesla-owners/ https://www.slashgear.com/1222581/joe-mode-a-must-know-setti...