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Israel's evil keeps taking me by surprise. I guess when people go down the path of dehumanization there are truly no limits to what they are ready to do. But w

• majikaja 2y ago
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• hiiokio 2y ago
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  • majikaja 2y ago
    There are still millions of Palestinians left to kill After that there will be the surrounding countries to deal with. Who is going to die to fight these? Americans? After Afghanistan you expect them to come to the rescue forever? I'm not sure this has been thought through
    • hiiokio 2y ago
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      • majikaja 2y ago
        They are just creating more Hamas They shoot anything that moves including their own hostages
        • hiiokio 2y ago
          Not really, Hamas are creating more Hamas.
          • HDThoreaun 2y ago
            and israel not only isnt stopping them, their actions are strengthening Hamas.
          • NickC25 2y ago
            I think the entire situation is creating more Hamas. You think some starving Palestinian kid whose just seen his family (and now, the person supplying aid in the form of food) blown into a thousand pieces is going to just drop all pretenses and love Israel?
          • arp242 2y ago
            Israel has been trying to eradicate Palestinian terror organisations with bullets for about 75 years now. Tell me, does it appear to be working? I'm not saying Israel needs to lay down its arms and start holding hands with Hamas, but at the very least it needs to offer a path forward. An outline of a path towards resolving this. Instead it has closed all avenues, offers no perspective for improvement. And has never really done so (even the Oslo accords was almost entirely concessions from the Palestinian side). It offers noting more than a life of misery in what is little more than a ghetto, subject some the most banal and arbitrary rules (please, explain to me how banning coriander and chocolates keeps people safe). This is the entire life for many Palestinians. Many have never known anything other than military occupation and a boot in their face flying a Jewish flag, from a Jewish nation, proudly proclaiming that Judaism demands a boot in their face, and when you complain the boots kick harder. If you complain too loud you risk getting summarily executed with no justice. Your entire life is an exercise in cheek turning. And then you complain these people don't care much for Jews? Gosh, I wonder why. they must've been born that way or something ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • curiousgal 2y ago
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• HDThoreaun 2y ago
  It's been pretty clear to me for a while now that Israel's long term plan for the Palestinians is to expel them all. Starvation isnt a requirement for that, but it is probably the path of least resistance. I will say that its happening a lot faster than I expected though, Israel definitely taking advantage of the situation here.
  • KingMob 2y ago
    But in lieu of expulsion, it seems they're ok with starvation and mass murder as alternatives.
    • gryzzly 2y ago
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      • romwell 2y ago
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        • HDThoreaun 2y ago
          Im not saying Israel is evil. Id come to the same conclusion in their shoes, absolutely a shitty situation. Theyre probably right that they will never be able to live safely next to palestinians. That doesnt mean I will go along as they oppress the Palestinians though.
        • roddds 2y ago
          So what are we calling "using bad AI to kill innocent people"? An oopsy daisy?
    • jhallenworld 2y ago
      I'm in the camp that thinks the two-state solution is dead.. which means we are left with an eventual one state solution. Which means they are killing their own future voters.
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• gryzzly 2y ago
  what do you mean "bribed and blackmailed"?
  • luketaylor 2y ago
    On AIPAC in the US: 1. “How the Israel lobby moved to quash rising dissent in Congress against Israel’s apartheid regime” 2. “Top Pro-Israel Group Offered Ocasio-Cortez $100,000 Campaign Cash” 3. “Senate Candidate in Michigan Says He Was Offered $20 Million to Challenge Tlaib” [1]: https://theintercept.com/2023/11/27/israel-democrats-aipac-book/ https://theintercept.com/2023/11/27/israel-democrats-aipac-b... [2]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ocasio-cortez-aipac-offer-conversation-ryan-grim-book_n_656ee39ae4b07b937ff5eab0 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ocasio-cortez-aipac-offer-con... [3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/22/us/politics/hill-harper-rashida-tlaib.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/22/us/politics/hill-harper-r...
    • gryzzly 2y ago
      hm, and how do you feel about Qatar sponsoring higher education in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_e... Not sure these three links show that "supposedly morally superior western world is entirely bribed and blackmailed". Especially on the "entirely" and "blackmail" parts.
      • hikingsimulator 2y ago
        > hm, and how do you feel about Qatar sponsoring higher education in the US? Focusing on international interference by one state does not reduce the blame that can be thrown at another. There's no limited reserve of blame that requires to be cleverly distributed. The undemocratic influence over public institutions by lobbies, like Qatar's (see Qatargate in Europe) or Israeli-linked ones alike and many more, are the death of our societies.
        • Adverblessly 2y ago
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• ben_w 2y ago
  > And then you have countries like Germany where you get thrown in jail for being upset at Israel. Back in 2002 or so, a friend of mine swore blind that an American had been arrested for wearing a "give whirled peas a chance" T-shirt — which is an anecdotal way of saying: are you sure you've got the full story? I'm learning German by listening to „Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten“ by Deutsche Welle, and it definitely looks like a lot of people are less than enthusiastic about how Israel's forces are conducting themselves in war despite the constant note that Hamas is (1) a terror organisation that (2) started this particular round by killing 1000 civilians: https://www.dw.com/en/israel-withdraws-from-gazas-devastated-shifa-hospital/a-68712820 https://www.dw.com/en/israel-withdraws-from-gazas-devastated... Germany is also extremely sensitive to every aspect of this due to the events of 80 years ago. Reports I've seen from the BBC show that there are significant protests in Israel, by those who consider the war to be justified, against their own government, not only for dropping the ball by failing to prevent the initial attack, but also for driving a wedge between them and their closest allies with the conduct of the war: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68722308 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68722308
  • segasaturn 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war_protests#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war_prote... >In Berlin, authorities banned a pro-Palestinian rally from being held.[176] A number of spontaneous demonstrations protesting the bombing of Gaza took place across the country, but were forcefully broken up by police.[177] Germany banned fundraising, the displaying of the Palestinian flag and the wearing of the keffiyeh.[13] >In Neukölln, a neighborhood of Berlin, pro-Palestinian protesters described police crackdowns on protest that were "shocking and violent".[180]
    • ben_w 2y ago
      [176]: "On Wednesday, Germany's capital Berlin banned a pro-Palestinian rally due to several previous demos spreading antisemitic hatred." [177]: "Police broke up the protest by force stating that, according to a police spokesperson, public safety was threatened by “anti-Israel and violence-glorifying chants” and the wearing of masks." [13]: "“Hamas is already labelled as a terrorist organisation in Germany, but now Berlin will prohibit any activities in support of the group or its agenda,” Scholz said in a speech to parliament. The ban will apply to fundraising, the display of the Palestinian flag, and even the wearing of the Palestinian keffiyeh." [180]: that one does sound bad even in the source material, I'm not going to attempt to delve deeper into that and instead will take it at face value.
• Adverblessly 2y ago
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  • romwell 2y ago
    And don't forget this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Jewish_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Jewish_conspirac...
  • pphysch 2y ago
    For people who are actually interested in this topic instead of bad-faith race-baiting, there is a ton of investigative journalism and academic analysis of the methods of the actually-existing Israel lobby. Stephen Walt & John Mearsheimer "The Israel Lobby" Al Jazeera's "The Lobby" Mondoweiss, EI, etc.
    • Adverblessly 2y ago
      > Al Jazeera's "The Lobby" I hope you at least appreciate the irony of citing Qatari propaganda sources (who for example claimed that the torture, rape, mutilation and murder of Israeli women and children was not done by Hamas but by some random unrelated angry Palestinians who breached the security fence during Hamas' honorable attack) as source for Israel's shady dealings. I'm sure it is only race-baiting to point out that when Jews engage in lobbying it is considered blackmail and bribery, but somehow non-Jews are only capable of the correct form of lobbying, of "exercising soft power" or "using trade to strengthen peaceful relations", arranging peaceful protests that demonstrate the organic will of the people and not evil protests meant to blackmail people in power. To be extra clear, in the previous comment and in this one, I'm seriously urging you and GP to reexamine yourself and what leads you to believe that somehow country #28 in world GDP with 0.5% of global GDP is somehow able to blackmail and bribe the entire world and if maybe there's something else within you that leads you to seek out, trust and spread the belief in that claim.
      • pphysch 2y ago
        I recommend Al Jazeera's "The Lobby" because it contains primary evidence from undercover journalists, notwithstanding any spin put on it by the Qatari government. > somehow country #28 in world GDP with 0.5% of global GDP is somehow able to blackmail and bribe the entire world Israel may be top #28 in GDP but they are a lot higher than that in media power, Western political influence, cyberwarfare, etc. -- and AI murderbots, apparently.
• lupusreal 2y ago
  > But what is even sadder is that the supposedly morally superior western world is entirely bribed and blackmailed to stand behind Israel. Add religious indoctrination to that. A huge number of Americans are evangelical Christians who unconditionally support Israel because they are utterly convinced that the continued existence of Israel is a necessary prerequisite for the reincarnation of their god.
• jcranmer 2y ago
  There is something like a generational divide going on here. Much of the older generation remembers the wider Israeli-Arab conflict (ongoing since 1948, and arguably even decades before that) as "Israel's neighbors repeatedly invade it to try to wipe it off the map." But the last such war was 1973; even the Second Intifada ended in 2005. For the younger generation, the conflict is largely "Israel repeatedly invades its neighbors to tamp down on terrorism." In other words, Israel has largely shifted from being the aggressee to the aggressor in the conflict, and sympathy naturally tends to lie with the aggressee. That said, there's also something noticeably different about this conflict. For the first time, the reporting I've seen in the mainstream press has generally been trending negative towards Israel. For example, the Washington Post has had a recent article on a press tour the IDF led of the burned-out remains of the hospital it attacked, clearly part of a campaign to justify why it was necessary, and the entire article was dripping with subtext of "we don't buy what the IDF is saying". And even the political headlines are generally framed in a way to keep you asking "should the US even be supporting Israel?" Israel has already squandered all the sympathy it got from the terrorist attacks last October, and it's well on the way to squandering all residual sympathy from the Holocaust. And the Israeli political and military establishment seems to have zero clue that this is going on.
• nickpsecurity 2y ago
  That’s not true. Within a short time of forming, all the surrounding nations attacked Israel to ensure they wouldn’t exist there. Israel’s opponents regularly targeted civilians with indiscriminate bombings since that’s what their morals produce. They planned to keep doing that over time, too. Keep that in mind when interpreting everything else. At times, Israel allowed for a two-state solution but Hamas wanted every Jew there dead or gone. They’d push them into the ocean itself if allowed. People called for Israel reducing their presence in Gaza for peace. Doing that led to more attacks instead of more peace. Recently, Hamas killed and kidnapped civilians on purpose. Whereas, Israel warned people to leave before the invasion where they then focused on military targets. If people stayed and were connected to those, they’ll likely die during the invasion. The OP is about people who stayed that are mostly connected to militants. OP writer pities their families but not all the non-militant families Hamas killed. While both sides are plenty guilty, one is actually aiming for peace, focusing on military targets, and reducing civilian casualties. The other broke peace, attacked civilians, and called for more genocide. The difference between these two strategies shows that anyone wanting long-term stability with less murder in the area should support Israel. Also, Israel is allied more with us while their opponents keep funding terrorist groups, including our own enemies. They’re also strong, economic partners. Why on earth would we ditch our friends to back people who do little for us and support our enemies?
• deleted 2y ago
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