6 ms·

Is This 'Magic' Roundabout Made of 5 Mini-Roundabouts?

24 points by sp8 3y ago

Breadmaker 3y ago
>the roundabout was voted the seventh most feared road junction in the country. Fear is undervalued as a road safety measure :-)
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  Yes - the effect is seen when they improve visibility at road junctions in a effort to increase safety. Before, everyone approached the uncertain situation slowly. Afterwards, they rush head-on into collisions.
  - rob74 3y ago
    Where I live there is a stop sign before merging into a major road despite originally good visibility, so few people actually stopped, which apparently led to accidents. Then they installed some barriers to make visibility worse (so drivers will not see the traffic on the main road until shortly before the stop sign, more or less forcing them to stop and take stock of the traffic situation, unless of course they are very irresponsible). Not sure if this has improved safety, but the barriers have been there for some years now, so I guess they were at least a bit successful...
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Making drivers uneasy is often the best way to improve safety. Narrow lanes, in particular, help a good deal. https://www.wri.org/insights/bigger-isnt-always-better-narrow-traffic-lanes-make-cities-safer https://www.wri.org/insights/bigger-isnt-always-better-narro...
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Overhead view is complex, sure. The only view that matters is thru the windshield. If the driver knows at every point where to go next, then it works fine. All about signage and lanes and signals.
- RandomBacon 3y ago
  It also doesn't help that someone is adding visual complexity to the picture by the dim duplicate extensions on the side (what is that called?). There may be times where that feature is useful, but this is definitely not one of those times.
- kibwen 3y ago
  As long as you aren't a cyclist, that is. Separated bike lanes? Never heard of 'em...
  - swarnie 3y ago
    From memory the entire thing is ringed by a cycle loop on the pavement, no reason to get out and in to traffic.
    - kibwen 3y ago
      From looking at it on street view it appears to be a narrow (if paved) sidewalk that's shared with pedestrians, and the only way to cross traffic is to trigger multiple traffic lights (per crossing!) to halt traffic so that cyclists and pedestrians can safely cross, and resorting to traffic lights means that you've given up on any traffic benefits of a roundabout in the first place. To any budding civil engineers out there, please only consider roundabouts in the following circumstances: 1. Traffic is light enough that the roundabout can be a single lane. No multi-lane roundabouts in populated areas with pedestrian crossings! 2. Traffic is remote enough that there are no pedestrians or cyclists to worry about, in which case, feel free to go crazy with your multi-lane roundabouts.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There's one roundabout between me and Boston that gets very congested at rush hour and I commuted into on and off for about 18 months. It was obvious when school started up because the backups got way worse--partially more cars I assume but presumably you also had a lot of people who just weren't used to the traffic patterns. It tended to get better (though still awful) again after a few weeks. ADDED: (One) problem with Route 2 is that it's an arterial highway that was never designed to be one. Especially to the west, the merges are also terrible at peak times. And (although there was one major upgrade a number of years back) it passes through some of Boston's tonier suburbs which makes major changes hard.
Symbiote 3y ago
The junction is named after a 1960s-1970s children TV series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ
- nickt 3y ago
  Which itself has a fascinating backstory https://www.absoluteveryfirsttime.com/post/magic-roundabout https://www.absoluteveryfirsttime.com/post/magic-roundabout
sbuk 3y ago
I learned to drive in Swindon, and went round that roundabout more time that I care to think. Ironically, I failed my first test at a roundabout. Make of that what you will!
swarnie 3y ago
Swindon on HN; never thought I'd see it. Back in the 2000s most driving test routes did cross this roundabout at least once, sometimes multiple times so most people growing up there don't understand the internets confusion by it all. Look right, drive forwards, stop at the give way lines. (If you couldn't figure this out you admitted you probably shouldn't be driving and booked your test in Cirencester instead)
- rob74 3y ago
  It's probably more confusing for people who drive on the right (which is the majority of the world's population). What I don't get however: is there really so much traffic there that a single big roundabout wouldn't work? I mean, it apparently works in other places (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Charles_de_Gaulle#/media/File:Paris_-_Orthophotographie_-_2018_-_Place_Charles-de-Gaulle_02.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Charles_de_Gaulle#/media...), although that is scary as well...
  - KingOfCoders 3y ago
    Same roundabout came to my mind.
  - wil421 3y ago
    Thanks for posting the giant roundabout. Whatever is happening in the original could’ve been avoided entirely. My state and surrounding counties have been on a roundabout build spree and it’s really awesome. The only one near me with 2 lanes on one side hand to go back down to single lanes because drivers couldn’t understand one lane was for going “straight” and one was for looping around to another exit.
    - debesyla 3y ago
      Here in Lithuania lots of Turbo-roundabouts were built lately, I my eyes it the best way to connect multiple lane roads as it's pretty hard to mess it up - bumps on the road itself help to direct the traffic (and, of course, signs when entering help too).
3ds 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, England, is a ring junction constructed in 1972 consisting of five mini-roundabouts arranged in a circle. Located near the County Ground, home of Swindon Town F.C., its name comes from the popular children's television series The Magic Roundabout. In 2009, it was voted the fourth-scariest junction in Britain.
- WithinReason 3y ago
  There is one for 6 roads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst...
  - youngtaff 3y ago
    IME the one in Hemel Hempstead is much easier to navigate and I think that's because it's got a larger and 'solid' centre which provides a visual anchor. For me the issue with the one in Swindon is that you can see right across it with only the signs and road markings to help you understand where you should be
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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moritzruth 3y ago
And of course, Tom Scott has made a video about it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D22BOOGbpFM https://youtube.com/watch?v=D22BOOGbpFM edit: fixed a typo
erremerre 3y ago
I have driven quite a lot of time through there, and it is very useful junction, if there is a path with traffic, you can just take another part with less traffic to go to the same exit. Because preferences on the way it goes (mini roundabouts do not have roundabout preference, but you need to give preference to your right) you can break the preference and take advantage. Which usually helps because if there is a main path of traffic, minor paths can't enter into the junction.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  There is a horrific intersection in northern virginia that really needs to be replaced with something like this, but they'd have to change the name of the town. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/seven-corners-with-a-name-like-that-you-know-traffics-rough-but-fairfax-county-has-a-redesign-plan/3400541/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/seve...
KaiserPro 3y ago
[flagged]
nickcw 3y ago
I have driven round the similar roundabout in Hemel Hempsted many times https://maps.app.goo.gl/hdU8g6mS2eAv4GgRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/hdU8g6mS2eAv4GgRA It looks scary, but you just treat each mini-roundabout as a normal roundabout and you'll be fine. We had some visitors from the US who weren't very used to roundabouts and they managed the magic roundabout no problem! When traffic is heavy (common on that roundabout in peak times) you can choose which way you go round it which is useful in avoiding congestion. Edit: I just noticed on google maps it is rated as a tourist attraction with an average rating of one star :-)
- sparsely 3y ago
  There's also one in High Wycombe. https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Wycombe,+UK/@51.626978,-0.751414,317m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876600361b47cc3:0xcd47a66f382f4def!8m2!3d51.628611!4d-0.748229!16zL20vMDEzYnFn?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Wycombe,+UK/@51.62697...
  - noodlesUK 3y ago
    I'm more familiar with that one than the one in swindon. It looks extremely terrifying from above, but what it actually looks like from the ground is a bit of a weird run of roundabouts one after another. If you take them one at a time rather than consider the intersection as a whole, it works fairly simply. It's actually shockingly intuitive. Compared to the nearby roundabout onto the M40, which is of a much simpler design, but is covered in traffic lights, the Wycombe magic roundabout is actually much better at moving traffic around.
    - sparsely 3y ago
      Handy Cross is the worst roundabout in the country, I hate it so much!
benwerd 3y ago
I've driven this. It's really not as bad as it seems, although that's a high bar, and I was screaming the entire time.
jccalhoun 3y ago
I can't imagine how people in my midwestern USA state would react to this. My small college shares an entrance with a middle school and they put a roundabout in a couple years ago. Except when parents are picking up or dropping off their kids it is very low traffic with very clear visibility. I still see people regularly not know how to use it. People stopping in the middle of it to let people in and stopping at the yield sign when it is obvious that there is no other car anywhere near it.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There's a certain familiarity factor to using roundabouts and add to that the need for a certain level of trust that other people aren't going to do something stupid. As I wrote elsewhere, there's a clear difference at a busy roundabout I'm familiar with when school gets back in and there are presumably a lot of parents driving it who aren't familiar with it given that big roundabouts in particular aren't common around where I live.
- throwup238 3y ago
  > I can't imagine how people in my midwestern USA state would react to this. Abject horror. It’s an Eldritch monster as imagined by a civil engineer. A roundabout like that would turn me into a misanthropic agoraphobe, never to see the light of day outside the safety of my own abode ever again.
- blibble 3y ago
  probably something like this: https://youtu.be/9TnGjq9mWSI?t=235 https://youtu.be/9TnGjq9mWSI?t=235 (this is tounge-in-cheek, but some people in the UK do genuinely find double mini-roundabouts terrifying)
nickt 3y ago
Auto Shenanigans on YouTube recently posted a video about this https://youtu.be/DAFQZwR157E https://youtu.be/DAFQZwR157E He finds a bunch of little known and mildly interesting things about the UK road network.
- DrBazza 3y ago
  The Savoy Hotel entrance is the only (??) place in the UK where we drive on the right.
mysterydip 3y ago
The biggest surprise here for me is snopes is still going.

24 points by sp8 3y ago

>the roundabout was voted the seventh most feared road junction in the country. Fear is undervalued as a road safety measure :-)

HarryHirsch 3y ago
Yes - the effect is seen when they improve visibility at road junctions in a effort to increase safety. Before, everyone approached the uncertain situation slowly. Afterwards, they rush head-on into collisions.
- rob74 3y ago
  Where I live there is a stop sign before merging into a major road despite originally good visibility, so few people actually stopped, which apparently led to accidents. Then they installed some barriers to make visibility worse (so drivers will not see the traffic on the main road until shortly before the stop sign, more or less forcing them to stop and take stock of the traffic situation, unless of course they are very irresponsible). Not sure if this has improved safety, but the barriers have been there for some years now, so I guess they were at least a bit successful...
CalRobert 3y ago
Making drivers uneasy is often the best way to improve safety. Narrow lanes, in particular, help a good deal. https://www.wri.org/insights/bigger-isnt-always-better-narrow-traffic-lanes-make-cities-safer https://www.wri.org/insights/bigger-isnt-always-better-narro...

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

Overhead view is complex, sure. The only view that matters is thru the windshield. If the driver knows at every point where to go next, then it works fine. All about signage and lanes and signals.

RandomBacon 3y ago
It also doesn't help that someone is adding visual complexity to the picture by the dim duplicate extensions on the side (what is that called?). There may be times where that feature is useful, but this is definitely not one of those times.
kibwen 3y ago
As long as you aren't a cyclist, that is. Separated bike lanes? Never heard of 'em...
- swarnie 3y ago
  From memory the entire thing is ringed by a cycle loop on the pavement, no reason to get out and in to traffic.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    From looking at it on street view it appears to be a narrow (if paved) sidewalk that's shared with pedestrians, and the only way to cross traffic is to trigger multiple traffic lights (per crossing!) to halt traffic so that cyclists and pedestrians can safely cross, and resorting to traffic lights means that you've given up on any traffic benefits of a roundabout in the first place. To any budding civil engineers out there, please only consider roundabouts in the following circumstances: 1. Traffic is light enough that the roundabout can be a single lane. No multi-lane roundabouts in populated areas with pedestrian crossings! 2. Traffic is remote enough that there are no pedestrians or cyclists to worry about, in which case, feel free to go crazy with your multi-lane roundabouts.
ghaff 3y ago
There's one roundabout between me and Boston that gets very congested at rush hour and I commuted into on and off for about 18 months. It was obvious when school started up because the backups got way worse--partially more cars I assume but presumably you also had a lot of people who just weren't used to the traffic patterns. It tended to get better (though still awful) again after a few weeks. ADDED: (One) problem with Route 2 is that it's an arterial highway that was never designed to be one. Especially to the west, the merges are also terrible at peak times. And (although there was one major upgrade a number of years back) it passes through some of Boston's tonier suburbs which makes major changes hard.

Symbiote 3y ago

The junction is named after a 1960s-1970s children TV series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ

nickt 3y ago
Which itself has a fascinating backstory https://www.absoluteveryfirsttime.com/post/magic-roundabout https://www.absoluteveryfirsttime.com/post/magic-roundabout

sbuk 3y ago

I learned to drive in Swindon, and went round that roundabout more time that I care to think. Ironically, I failed my first test at a roundabout. Make of that what you will!

swarnie 3y ago

Swindon on HN; never thought I'd see it. Back in the 2000s most driving test routes did cross this roundabout at least once, sometimes multiple times so most people growing up there don't understand the internets confusion by it all. Look right, drive forwards, stop at the give way lines. (If you couldn't figure this out you admitted you probably shouldn't be driving and booked your test in Cirencester instead)

rob74 3y ago
It's probably more confusing for people who drive on the right (which is the majority of the world's population). What I don't get however: is there really so much traffic there that a single big roundabout wouldn't work? I mean, it apparently works in other places (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Charles_de_Gaulle#/media/File:Paris_-_Orthophotographie_-_2018_-_Place_Charles-de-Gaulle_02.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Charles_de_Gaulle#/media...), although that is scary as well...
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  Same roundabout came to my mind.
- wil421 3y ago
  Thanks for posting the giant roundabout. Whatever is happening in the original could’ve been avoided entirely. My state and surrounding counties have been on a roundabout build spree and it’s really awesome. The only one near me with 2 lanes on one side hand to go back down to single lanes because drivers couldn’t understand one lane was for going “straight” and one was for looping around to another exit.
  - debesyla 3y ago
    Here in Lithuania lots of Turbo-roundabouts were built lately, I my eyes it the best way to connect multiple lane roads as it's pretty hard to mess it up - bumps on the road itself help to direct the traffic (and, of course, signs when entering help too).

3ds 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, England, is a ring junction constructed in 1972 consisting of five mini-roundabouts arranged in a circle. Located near the County Ground, home of Swindon Town F.C., its name comes from the popular children's television series The Magic Roundabout. In 2009, it was voted the fourth-scariest junction in Britain.

WithinReason 3y ago
There is one for 6 roads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst...
- youngtaff 3y ago
  IME the one in Hemel Hempstead is much easier to navigate and I think that's because it's got a larger and 'solid' centre which provides a visual anchor. For me the issue with the one in Swindon is that you can see right across it with only the signs and road markings to help you understand where you should be
deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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moritzruth 3y ago

And of course, Tom Scott has made a video about it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D22BOOGbpFM https://youtube.com/watch?v=D22BOOGbpFM edit: fixed a typo

erremerre 3y ago

I have driven quite a lot of time through there, and it is very useful junction, if there is a path with traffic, you can just take another part with less traffic to go to the same exit. Because preferences on the way it goes (mini roundabouts do not have roundabout preference, but you need to give preference to your right) you can break the preference and take advantage. Which usually helps because if there is a main path of traffic, minor paths can't enter into the junction.

empath-nirvana 3y ago
There is a horrific intersection in northern virginia that really needs to be replaced with something like this, but they'd have to change the name of the town. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/seven-corners-with-a-name-like-that-you-know-traffics-rough-but-fairfax-county-has-a-redesign-plan/3400541/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/seve...

KaiserPro 3y ago

[flagged]

nickcw 3y ago

I have driven round the similar roundabout in Hemel Hempsted many times https://maps.app.goo.gl/hdU8g6mS2eAv4GgRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/hdU8g6mS2eAv4GgRA It looks scary, but you just treat each mini-roundabout as a normal roundabout and you'll be fine. We had some visitors from the US who weren't very used to roundabouts and they managed the magic roundabout no problem! When traffic is heavy (common on that roundabout in peak times) you can choose which way you go round it which is useful in avoiding congestion. Edit: I just noticed on google maps it is rated as a tourist attraction with an average rating of one star :-)

sparsely 3y ago
There's also one in High Wycombe. https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Wycombe,+UK/@51.626978,-0.751414,317m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876600361b47cc3:0xcd47a66f382f4def!8m2!3d51.628611!4d-0.748229!16zL20vMDEzYnFn?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Wycombe,+UK/@51.62697...
- noodlesUK 3y ago
  I'm more familiar with that one than the one in swindon. It looks extremely terrifying from above, but what it actually looks like from the ground is a bit of a weird run of roundabouts one after another. If you take them one at a time rather than consider the intersection as a whole, it works fairly simply. It's actually shockingly intuitive. Compared to the nearby roundabout onto the M40, which is of a much simpler design, but is covered in traffic lights, the Wycombe magic roundabout is actually much better at moving traffic around.
  - sparsely 3y ago
    Handy Cross is the worst roundabout in the country, I hate it so much!

benwerd 3y ago

I've driven this. It's really not as bad as it seems, although that's a high bar, and I was screaming the entire time.

jccalhoun 3y ago

I can't imagine how people in my midwestern USA state would react to this. My small college shares an entrance with a middle school and they put a roundabout in a couple years ago. Except when parents are picking up or dropping off their kids it is very low traffic with very clear visibility. I still see people regularly not know how to use it. People stopping in the middle of it to let people in and stopping at the yield sign when it is obvious that there is no other car anywhere near it.

ghaff 3y ago
There's a certain familiarity factor to using roundabouts and add to that the need for a certain level of trust that other people aren't going to do something stupid. As I wrote elsewhere, there's a clear difference at a busy roundabout I'm familiar with when school gets back in and there are presumably a lot of parents driving it who aren't familiar with it given that big roundabouts in particular aren't common around where I live.
throwup238 3y ago
> I can't imagine how people in my midwestern USA state would react to this. Abject horror. It’s an Eldritch monster as imagined by a civil engineer. A roundabout like that would turn me into a misanthropic agoraphobe, never to see the light of day outside the safety of my own abode ever again.
blibble 3y ago
probably something like this: https://youtu.be/9TnGjq9mWSI?t=235 https://youtu.be/9TnGjq9mWSI?t=235 (this is tounge-in-cheek, but some people in the UK do genuinely find double mini-roundabouts terrifying)

nickt 3y ago

Auto Shenanigans on YouTube recently posted a video about this https://youtu.be/DAFQZwR157E https://youtu.be/DAFQZwR157E He finds a bunch of little known and mildly interesting things about the UK road network.

DrBazza 3y ago
The Savoy Hotel entrance is the only (??) place in the UK where we drive on the right.

mysterydip 3y ago

The biggest surprise here for me is snopes is still going.