7 ms·

Only hiring cis white men from your local network or only recruiting from the college that only allows men is by definition sexist and racist. The point of DEI

Only hiring cis white men from your local network or only recruiting from the college that only allows men is by definition sexist and racist. The point of DEI is to first try to teach and then to punish managers that are stupid and say that they have a meritocracy when they absolutely don't. > women's salaries are on average 95-99% of men's[0] - a negligible difference. So I am guessing you would be okay if I only paid the men in my org 95-99% of what I pay women? Enforcing that they are paid the same is just giving preference to men. Didn't think so. I have a special place in my heart for the men that whine about the one woman in their org that didn't work out, ignoring the countless men that don't work out. The idiot men that get through the interview screening are somehow okay, but heaven forbid we hire a single woman that couldn't cut it. When I ask for more details these guys eventually admit that they just hate the idea that finding a job could be slightly harder or it is plain old misogyny with the belief that all men are better than all women. This doubly applies to men who seem to not be doing amazing at their job. Not only are the other men better than them, but they get really mad when a woman does better too. I just want to do a good job, but I have had to deal with this stuff my entire career.

cedws 3y ago
Women's salaries are 95-99% of men's, when adjusted for lifestyle choices, on a macro scale. It is almost impossible to achieve complete salary parity. Let's not forget, men have higher physical performance, take more risks, and are willing to do dirtier work. These factors increase the salary ceiling. It's actually quite impressive if the difference is only about 5%. I don't know why we have to pretend men and women are exactly the same. They're not. They each have different characteristics, different preferences, and different capabilities.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
At least in tech, many companies have massive over-representation over Asian-American employees. Over-hiring cishet white males is not exactly a problem, in fact in many roles they are under-represented compared to the national slice. See the BLS data. E.g. 50% of NVIDIA's staff is AA. Third most valuable company in the world. That's about 10x the national average. Similarly with CISCO. You can keep digging these up. What should we do? Systematically disadvantage and discriminate against Asians (part of the honorable and noble BIPOC coalition) to make sure to return to the national averages? Of course this also touches upon the insanity of wanting company x to match a certain demographic split. Should they mirror the world's demographics? The US's demographics? California's demographics? South Bay's demographics? Santa Clara's demographics? Each one of those is different, and nobody seems to be able to agree on which we should use as the authoritative reference. If people are going to be shaming firms for not meeting a certain bar, can we at least agree what that bar should be? And the wage gap is most likely not going away, men are women are not identical, they do not have the same impulses, incentives, timelines, or desires. They're not perfectly homogeneous interchangeable robots that behave the same way. It's entirely not surprising that we're seeing a gap. See the Uber study which was trying to find sexism to explain their drivers' 7% wage gap, only to find out that it ultimately boiled down to risk taking, hours worked, and more aggressive driving: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf - this is going to be true across all jobs. Side note: the real "wage gap" is everybody vs mothers, not men vs women. If you want to advocate for making child rearing easier on mothers in the workplace, I'm fully in support. Links: https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/technology--media-and-telecom/nvidia-workforce-diversity-and-inclusion-2091182/ https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/technology--media-a... https://www.cisco.com/c/m/en_us/about/csr/esg-hub/people/workforce-snapshot.html https://www.cisco.com/c/m/en_us/about/csr/esg-hub/people/wor... https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
- giantg2 3y ago
  "over-hiring cishet white males is not exactly a problem, in fact in many roles they are under-represented compared to the national slice." I've been on teams where I'm the only white person. I've also been on teams where women outnumber the men (yes, even in tech).
  - crackercrews 3y ago
    > I've been on teams where I'm the only white person. I've also been on teams where women outnumber the men (yes, even in tech). This isn't surprising at all. There are tons of asians in tech. And it's not uncommon for a couple devs to be on a team with lots of product or design people. I'm on one such team right now. The vast majority of this team is non-white women.
- idontpost 3y ago
  > What should we do? Systematically disadvantage and discriminate against Asians TBF that's exactly what Harvard did.

cedws 3y ago

Women's salaries are 95-99% of men's, when adjusted for lifestyle choices, on a macro scale. It is almost impossible to achieve complete salary parity. Let's not forget, men have higher physical performance, take more risks, and are willing to do dirtier work. These factors increase the salary ceiling. It's actually quite impressive if the difference is only about 5%. I don't know why we have to pretend men and women are exactly the same. They're not. They each have different characteristics, different preferences, and different capabilities.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago

At least in tech, many companies have massive over-representation over Asian-American employees. Over-hiring cishet white males is not exactly a problem, in fact in many roles they are under-represented compared to the national slice. See the BLS data. E.g. 50% of NVIDIA's staff is AA. Third most valuable company in the world. That's about 10x the national average. Similarly with CISCO. You can keep digging these up. What should we do? Systematically disadvantage and discriminate against Asians (part of the honorable and noble BIPOC coalition) to make sure to return to the national averages? Of course this also touches upon the insanity of wanting company x to match a certain demographic split. Should they mirror the world's demographics? The US's demographics? California's demographics? South Bay's demographics? Santa Clara's demographics? Each one of those is different, and nobody seems to be able to agree on which we should use as the authoritative reference. If people are going to be shaming firms for not meeting a certain bar, can we at least agree what that bar should be? And the wage gap is most likely not going away, men are women are not identical, they do not have the same impulses, incentives, timelines, or desires. They're not perfectly homogeneous interchangeable robots that behave the same way. It's entirely not surprising that we're seeing a gap. See the Uber study which was trying to find sexism to explain their drivers' 7% wage gap, only to find out that it ultimately boiled down to risk taking, hours worked, and more aggressive driving: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf - this is going to be true across all jobs. Side note: the real "wage gap" is everybody vs mothers, not men vs women. If you want to advocate for making child rearing easier on mothers in the workplace, I'm fully in support. Links: https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/technology--media-and-telecom/nvidia-workforce-diversity-and-inclusion-2091182/ https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/technology--media-a... https://www.cisco.com/c/m/en_us/about/csr/esg-hub/people/workforce-snapshot.html https://www.cisco.com/c/m/en_us/about/csr/esg-hub/people/wor... https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

giantg2 3y ago
"over-hiring cishet white males is not exactly a problem, in fact in many roles they are under-represented compared to the national slice." I've been on teams where I'm the only white person. I've also been on teams where women outnumber the men (yes, even in tech).
- crackercrews 3y ago
  > I've been on teams where I'm the only white person. I've also been on teams where women outnumber the men (yes, even in tech). This isn't surprising at all. There are tons of asians in tech. And it's not uncommon for a couple devs to be on a team with lots of product or design people. I'm on one such team right now. The vast majority of this team is non-white women.
idontpost 3y ago
> What should we do? Systematically disadvantage and discriminate against Asians TBF that's exactly what Harvard did.