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This is a remarkable inversion. The primary reason people forego children in the west is because it throws a wrench in their comfortable lifestyle. They prefer

This is a remarkable inversion. The primary reason people forego children in the west is because it throws a wrench in their comfortable lifestyle. They prefer to live unto themselves, instead of unto children, i.e. selfishly. I believe the environmental/climactic concerns raised by antinatalists are just a feeble deflection. They are primarily interested in personal comfort.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
I don't really want to have kids. I am not an "antinatalist" because of this. It has nothing whatsoever to do with comfort (or the environment or climate). I note that the "unto" here is a very interesting word choice that hints at an underlying belief structure that drives your opinion.
menschmanfred 3y ago
You could have asked my why I think it is selfish. I believe creating new life is playing 'god'. It's easier to never exist than life life. This has nothing to do what you thought
- mcphage 3y ago
  > I believe creating new life is playing 'god'. That's an unusual definition of "playing god", since it includes something that pretty much every life form back to the earliest single-cellular bacteria does.
  - menschmanfred 3y ago
    Those are not self aware and can't think about the implications
    - mcphage 3y ago
      > Those are not self aware I'm not sure I do this most of the time. > can't think about the implications I definitely don't do this bit.
nlnn 3y ago
This may be true in many cases, but I know quite a few people that chose not to have kids for other reasons. For some, these are possible medical complications, e.g. history of heart defects, high risk of childbirth fatality. For others, its that they had abusive or traumatic childhoods, and either don't feel they'd be up to the task of parenthood, or associate childhood with something so unpleasant that they wouldn't want to inflict it on others.
hotpotamus 3y ago
I think I never wanted children because I realized quite young that there’s no god and when I died I would be done and gone and nothing I had done would ever have mattered. It did not make for a happy childhood and is not something I’d wish upon a child. And I don’t even have any happy stories about religion to pass onto a child like my parents tried to impart on me. If I were to create people in order to try and find some meaning but leaving them as adrift in this meaninglessness as I, would that really be a selfless act? It seems quite the opposite to me. Perhaps this is indeed “cope” in one way or another, but it’s what I’ve felt from a very young age, though I think it took me a lot of reflection to realize it and be able to put it into words.
foinker 3y ago
As a childless person I agree entirely. I fully acknowledge and embrace that I don't have kids because I'd rather not deal with the hassle of it. Although I've not fully understood what makes that decision "selfish" in the sense that I'm not acting in a way that is a detriment to others.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago

I don't really want to have kids. I am not an "antinatalist" because of this. It has nothing whatsoever to do with comfort (or the environment or climate). I note that the "unto" here is a very interesting word choice that hints at an underlying belief structure that drives your opinion.

menschmanfred 3y ago

You could have asked my why I think it is selfish. I believe creating new life is playing 'god'. It's easier to never exist than life life. This has nothing to do what you thought

mcphage 3y ago
> I believe creating new life is playing 'god'. That's an unusual definition of "playing god", since it includes something that pretty much every life form back to the earliest single-cellular bacteria does.
- menschmanfred 3y ago
  Those are not self aware and can't think about the implications
  - mcphage 3y ago
    > Those are not self aware I'm not sure I do this most of the time. > can't think about the implications I definitely don't do this bit.

nlnn 3y ago

This may be true in many cases, but I know quite a few people that chose not to have kids for other reasons. For some, these are possible medical complications, e.g. history of heart defects, high risk of childbirth fatality. For others, its that they had abusive or traumatic childhoods, and either don't feel they'd be up to the task of parenthood, or associate childhood with something so unpleasant that they wouldn't want to inflict it on others.

hotpotamus 3y ago

I think I never wanted children because I realized quite young that there’s no god and when I died I would be done and gone and nothing I had done would ever have mattered. It did not make for a happy childhood and is not something I’d wish upon a child. And I don’t even have any happy stories about religion to pass onto a child like my parents tried to impart on me. If I were to create people in order to try and find some meaning but leaving them as adrift in this meaninglessness as I, would that really be a selfless act? It seems quite the opposite to me. Perhaps this is indeed “cope” in one way or another, but it’s what I’ve felt from a very young age, though I think it took me a lot of reflection to realize it and be able to put it into words.

foinker 3y ago

As a childless person I agree entirely. I fully acknowledge and embrace that I don't have kids because I'd rather not deal with the hassle of it. Although I've not fully understood what makes that decision "selfish" in the sense that I'm not acting in a way that is a detriment to others.