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Ask HN: What are some homeless shelter innovations?
For example, it seems like most homeless shelters have tons of beds all together in one big room. But in my experience that would make it pretty hard to sleep with all the snoring and other noises. Is there some type of individual sleeping pod that would be better? What other innovations can you think of for the homeless?
- ijhuygft776 3y agocheckout capsule hotels in Japan
- jollyllama 3y agoSee also Goshitels in S. Korea. Ultimately, outlawing the worst option means that some people who would otherwise obtain it instead get nothing. But maybe that's worth it.
- codingclaws 3y agoThose are cool. I found this funny about them: In Japan, capsule hotels have been stereotypically used by Japanese salarymen who may be too drunk to return home safely, have missed the last train of the day to make a return trip home due to working late hours, or are too embarrassed to face their spouses.
- andy99 3y agoThis came to mind, ymmv I have no idea how useful it is https://www.fastcompany.com/90962654/this-simple-design-turns-cardboard-into-an-emergency-bed-in-seconds https://www.fastcompany.com/90962654/this-simple-design-turn...
- brudgers 3y agoPublic housing. That allows: drinking, smoking, guests, and dogs. Good luck.
- incomingpain 3y agoHomeless shelters in north america are missing a feature. Many features are possible. Switzerland for example uses their bomb shelters as homeless shelters. But north america doesn't have that same war fears. We don't have bomb shelters everywhere. One thing which always made me curious. Why don't storage lockers act as cheap housing? It's 1 light, maybe an outlet. But they all disallow people living out of them. Homeless have their stolen shopping carts full of junk. Wouldnt storage spot of 8'x8' be enough to at least offer people housing when they need it? Safely store their stuff and get out of the elements. Constructing these is trivial as well. We could produce a ridiculous number of storage lockers at virtually no cost. People can use them for whatever reason they want.
- jeremiahlangner 3y agoBiggest problem is "cleanup". Lack of availability of basic hygiene almost guarantees health hazards and extreme cleanup costs for storage facility owners.
- Animats 3y ago> Safely store their stuff Santa Monica, CA, has a place with storage, washers, and laundry. It is called SHWASHLOCK.[1] It's been open for thirty years now. Amusingly, they don't give the address, which is 505 Olympic Boulevard. [1] https://www.thepeopleconcern.org/shwashlock/ https://www.thepeopleconcern.org/shwashlock/
- carabiner 3y agoI think they're constrained by money and 99% of innovations are contrary to the goal of minimizing $/person in shelter costs.
- pasabagi 3y agoThe main question is, why are houses not like every other commodity? You never see anybody who is literally too poor to afford shoes. A car, despite being an industrial miracle assembled out of precision parts, is far cheaper than a house. Food insecurity is largely manageable for most people in rich countries. The answer is, of course, politics - and that's also why you'll never solve homelessness with a better capsule hotel. A friend of mine works for the city in Strasbourg, and the mayor's office wanted to improve the situation of the homeless, so they installed some basic amenities for a homeless camp. Within a fortnight, the police had trashed the amenities. If you make the situation better for the homeless in a state that wants the homeless to go elsewhere, the politics will unsolve your solution.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago> Within a fortnight, the police had trashed the amenities This sounds like a convenient anti-police narrative to me. I've never worked with homeless directly but I have several friends who have and one who still does. There's probably no broad demographic in society that is more efficient at destroying their own amenities. Granted, that's usually addicts. And I know not all homeless are addicts, not all addicts are homeless, but it is undeniable that there is large overlap between the two groups Anyways, my point is that blaming the police for destroying the amenities feels very fishy to me.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoSome of the homeless people don't want a home. They don't even want to be in the system, now become someone says that's anecdotal, I'm not saying ALL OF THEM, I'm saying there's a minority of them, who are in fact fugitives, or maybe they just don't want to go back to their old lives due to some trauma or stress. Even so. My point being, you'll never 100% solve homelessness. Some are also dealing with serious mental issues. I was part of a homeless non-profit for about a year so I got exposure to all sorts of different scenarios. We were able to get some off the street, some literally had relatives who would have given them a home, but they needed to sort through their personal issues first. You can't fix everyone even with infinite resources unfortunately, I'm not saying that if you can help don't, I'm just saying, I feel like some people think they can end homelessness, we're too far from that.
- csnover 3y agoPlaces like Avivo Village[0][1] which put single-room homes into unused commercial/industrial spaces and offer them up to unhoused people without most of the strings attached to traditional shelters: families are allowed, pets are allowed, people without ID are allowed, addicts are allowed. [0] https://avivomn.org/avivovillage/ https://avivomn.org/avivovillage/ [1] https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/10/04/resident-of-tiny-home-village-welcomes-safety-security-stability-of-avivo https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/10/04/resident-of-tiny-ho...
- LargeWu 3y agoAvivo has been a pretty promising success story. As the second article states, there are plans to build a second location in south MPLS, where the largest concentration of Minneapolis's unhoused population congregates.
- mandolingual 3y agoProbably the shift to (or supplementing of shelters with) tiny home villages would be the biggest one over the last few years.
- hooverd 3y agoTiny home villages are a terrible use of land.
- throwaway4aday 3y agoFor low density urban areas they aren't. It's not only major cities that have homeless populations you know.
- freen 3y agoJust paying people’s rent is cheaper and has substantially better outcomes. The solution to homelessness is to give people homes. Shelters are a major reason why there are street homeless. They are dangerous, dirty, loud, and the use of them is likely a parole violation in and of itself. https://www.cbpp.org/research/supportive-housing-helps-vulnerable-people-live-and-thrive-in-the-community https://www.cbpp.org/research/supportive-housing-helps-vulne...
- nh23423fefe 3y agoWhy give the homeless homes? why not give people with homes better homes? everyone complains about homelessness, but what about mansionlessness?
- s0rce 3y agoThis is such an odd question with an obvious answer. Same reason we give food stamps to people that can't afford food instead of pay for Michelin star dinners for the middle class.
- nh23423fefe 3y agoso its about efficiency and waste? are you making a utilitarian argument about the relative utility gain of middleclass(michelin) vs poor(food stamps) why cant i just define a problem, "mansionlessness." This isn't a problem but really just a vehicle for a "solution to mansionlessness" which is just a transfer of wealth in one direction. the crux of your argument seems to be "the middle class are undeserving of this assistance" but that's relative to the homeless. but i dont think that comparison makes sense. why can't i do the reverse instead and find a group, "more deserving" than the homeless and use their "plight" to block homeless aid. if i were to respond, "the homeless dont deserved this assistance" which mirrors your "the middle class dont deserve this assistance" you would probably call me cruel. i think the argument "Y-less dont have Y so give Y" is some weird ouroboros logic failure.
- freen 3y ago
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoThe reason you don't see any innovations for homelessness comes entirely down to city planning and code restrictions. There isn't a reason why you can't have capsule hotels or shared dorm style housing other than the zoning boards saying no. Back in the day, boarding houses used to take care of this but we're quietly phased out during the post war boom. As we revert to the mean again, this type of living is going to become normal.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- benrutter 3y agoI used to work in social housing The biggest innovation in homeless is the "housing first" policy in Finland. No clever tricks or anything but homeless people are given social housing regardless of engagement with services, addition problems etc. (This is the exact opposite of how things normally work where someone has to engage well with services before being elligible for state housing). The outcomes are basically as close to ending homelessness as you can get. Link if people want to find out more: https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/eradicating-homelessness-finland-housing-first-programme https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/eradicating...
- freen 3y ago100% this. It also effectively pays for itself through reduce utilization of other social services: medical, police, legal, food, etc. It is estimated that a “frequent flier”/ heavy utilization street homeless person can cost a city as much at $1m USD annually.
- tomcam 3y ago> It also effectively pays for itself through reduce utilization of other social services: medical, police, legal, food, etc. No study offers anywhere close to proof of that. First of all by definition of course it’s not paying for itself. These are massive tax expenditures at work. At best these amounts are reduced somewhat. Second, the studies rely on lots of assumptions all down the value chain that a responsible person wouldn’t normally make. The gaslighting by the government, NGOs, and charities feeding at the trough is staggering. I pay a shitload in taxes. Despite my libertarian leanings, I am not at all adverse about a lot of those taxes going to people who genuinely need it. But there is simply no transparency and no good faith presentation of budgets by any of these organizations.
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoWe've gone from 20,000 homeless in the 1990s down to about 4,000 in 2023, so it's very impressive. A large part of the reason is that drug use does not disqualify you from recieving benefits.
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoA buddy of mine up north is building what is basically an autonomous capsule hotel with a breathalyzer on it to carrot-and-stick his way into providing very cheap accommodations at the ends of public transport lines. Alcohol obviously isn't the only drug homeless folks have problems with but it's by far the most common, especially up there. He says the biggest cost is heat. I'm rooting for him.
- blackguardx 3y agoAlcoholics don't just decide to stop drinking so they can have a warm bed. In fact, alcohol is one of the few drugs that can cause death through withdrawal (in heavy drinkers).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- qup 3y agoCapsule hotel--is that like a sleeping pod in Japan?
- gnabgib 3y agoカプセルホテル is a Japenese term/invention, the first of which was Capsule Inn Osaka (1979)[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel
- mofosyne 3y agoAny writeups or video about that model? It's interesting about the concept of a breathalyzer locked door. I wonder if his model includes a public intoxication rest area accessible to such members, where they can safely recover and get service/advice.
- quickthrower2 3y agoHomeless people held to higher standards than everyone else
- notaustinpowers 3y agoThe solution for homelessness isn't something like a sleeping pod or capsule hotels. The solution for homelessness is 3-fold: - Secure, stable housing - Free mental health care, substance abuse care - Reliable and robust public transportation Without those 3 things minimum, any other solution to the homelessness crisis will not succeed. Access to jobs, food, and sanitary conditions is limited without stable housing. Without mental health care and substance abuse care, those with mental illnesses or substance abuse problems will not be able to adapt to the changing environment, become employable, or maintain long-term housing. And without reliable transportation, getting to grocery stores, work, etc is nearly impossible in most US cities, let alone smaller towns. Any other solution is slapping a Hello Kitty bandaid on a gunshot wound and kicking the can further down the road for someone else to deal with. EDIT: An organization that's local to me here in Atlanta that is succeeding very well is the Trans Housing Coalition(1). While they specifically focus their efforts on PoC transwomen in the Atlanta area they've been very successful in their work. 1: https://www.transhousingcoalition.org https://www.transhousingcoalition.org
- spcebar 3y agoAlso regular medical care. A lot of the unhoused have chronic but treatable illnesses which they currently lack the resources (or trust in medicine) to address.
- fardo 3y agoMost innovation in the homeless “housing” space has focused on relocation, both benevolent (trying to reconnect them with family members and friends willing to house them and get them off the street) and self-interested (without regard to the well-being of the individual, just focused on getting them on a bus going somewhere far away). When it works, it’s actually a great boon for the individuals at question, as well as dramatically out-competes alternatives on price, as there’s a four orders of magnitude difference in price between the cost of buying and building housing and shelters, particularly in some of America’s most expensive and overzoned real-estate markets, versus buying them a ride home to somewhere they’re expected. [1] That said, these programs have mixed results - sometimes great and life-changing, sometimes ruinsome due to poor vetting of the opposite side and being used as a high-pressure removal tactic [2] - but cities have broadly embraced doing it because in either case, it is effective at the political goal of moving one’s homeless problem somewhere else. [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sf-homeless-bus-homeward-bound-off-the-streets-18520054.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sf-homeless-bus-homew... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...
- ShamelessC 3y ago> What other innovations can you think of for the homeless? Go down to the shelter and volunteer. That will do substantially more than whatever capsule hotel/sleeping pod/innovation you can come up with. No disrespect. But it's becoming sort of a cliche here that hackers will save the world with code and bayesian priors. Perhaps best to remember all the damage some of tech's "innovations" have caused to society.
- blockwriter 3y agoI've been doing research into the high-rise housing projects in Chicago. One of the things I'm curious about when it comes to advocacy for more housing and to have that housing be accessible regardless of mental health or substance abuse issues is, does that not pretty much look like high-rise housing projects? If you want more diffuse housing that is accessible and also available regardless of other contributing factors, then it seems to me you would have to build this well outside of urban centers, as the land is too expensive, but then I doubt urban homeless would find satellite housing desirable.
- tptacek 3y agoI do a fair bit of local politics work on this issue in Chicagoland (specifically, Oak Park) and no, advocacy for building more housing mostly takes the form of replacing SFH lot zoning with 2- and 3- flat zoning; "big" projects here (and by "big" I mean "6-month long yard sign campaigns to try to halt them) are 5-story buildings here. The term of art is "missing middle housing". The concentrated high-rise public housing model was an obvious failure and I don't think anybody is ever going to try to reproduce it. Ironically, where you see high-density high rise construction proposed (and resisted) most often now are luxury condo buildings.
- kasey_junk 3y agoThe concentrated high rise public housing model was panned in its own time. The housing advocates at the time encouraged diffuse public housing. Instead the existing (white) political machine used high rise public housing to explicitly punish and break up an ascendant black political block. They used highways and a university campus to the same effect. In fill housing, at least in Chicago, is not a problem as we have both empty lots and tons of single family homes that can become 2 and 3 flats. Along with that you can add small specialized housing for various populations that need it.
- blockwriter 3y agoCan you recommend any books on this subject specifically?
- hooverd 3y ago> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy
- throwaway4aday 3y agoThis is a big missing piece of the puzzle and it could all be fixed by simply repealing legislation. > In 1917, California passed a new hotel act that prevented the building of new hotels with small cubicle rooms.[12] In addition to banning or restricting SRO hotels, land use reformers also passed zoning rules that indirectly reduced SROs: banning mixed residential and commercial use in neighbourhoods, an approach which meant that any remaining SRO hotel's residents would find it hard to eat at a local cafe or walk to a nearby corner grocery to buy food.
- alexb_ 3y agoLegalize small housing. That's literally it. You do not have to do anything else, just legalize building.
- quickthrower2 3y agoThat reduces cost of rent, which helps but it isn’t the entire solution. From drug use to mental health, lack of qualifications for work, needing an address catch 22s and DV to name a few.
- rented_mule 3y agoThe Delancey Street Foundation focuses on adjacent / overlapping problems - recovery from substance abuse, convicted criminals re-entering society, and the homeless situations that often come with those situations. They have been remarkably successful and financially self-sustaining. I lived next to their development in San Francisco for 5 years and regularly patronized their retail businesses. For the first year or so, I had no idea about the foundation behind the businesses (or that their members were the employees) until I read something posted on the wall at one of them. http://delanceystreetfoundation.org/ http://delanceystreetfoundation.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delancey_Street_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delancey_Street_Foundation
- helph67 3y agoHave been donating to this charity for years (originally known as Swags.org). The backpack provides a portable home with many advantages. https://backpackbed.org/au/ https://backpackbed.org/au/
- samstave 3y agoI have countless thought-hours and emotional input in this space. I have an Akashic record in me about my inputs on why I, also, would like to solve this problem. I looked at the SFDPH homeless stats, (I built services for these folks including being a primary tech designer for SFGH pre zuck) I have worked with and for home manufacturers, such as Buffetts' Clayton Homes, Wind River Tiny Homes, City of Alameda... AND - I have attempted to map out the Bicycle industry... I have a ton of input on a topic nobody wants to discuss.. - I have looked at the behavior of homeless over the last decade as I experienced them, through observation, empathy, [all the emotions]. I built a joke thing back in the early days of the internet when internet advertising was obviously ridiculous which was "Hobo Housing" (cant find it today, but it was along the lines of Cards Against Humanity: Offering Free Hobos Housing in foldable cardboard sheds that advertised Realtor Businesses printed on them. Or food stipends for Hobos pulling a cart with marketing for a particular brand, high end, like Perfume... (designed a backpak strap for one to pull a shopping cart, rather than push, off road carts, etc) -- I did this as to highlight how fucked up our economy is. I have worked (against) with with City of alameda on municipal Tiny home reformation, their adherence to Corp Media (common.net, comcast) "We sold our media rights to comcast, thus we will never allow municipal internet in Alaameda" <- alameda mayor stated to me. Its a CLUSTER* --- I have a lot to contribute to this conversation but a rate-limited input model on HN would prevent that. ====+ To start: An aptitude test of ANY person entering Public Service MUST be (not should) - Recite Maslows order of needs. - A "Politician/Police Officer" <- what does each mean, what are the implications upon society? I take a job description, interpolate it to my skillset and determine if I am suitable for the role, and then, if such APPLY. (Meaning I will APPLY my QUALIFIERS to that ROLE.) ... I am going to cut this post short because I think this warrants a greater discussion... TL;DR: (Dark times ahead as AI subverts HUMAN BASED critical thinking) (that is the demise of thought - aqueiscing to only machine's logic and eschewing all spirit and humanity of emotion and intuition.) And it is only Intuition which centuries ago predicted this, as if the result of some sort of DNA encoded Calamity with AI that, by the nature of it, AI makes us forget. Like expending hours of thought building a base on a platform like Enshrouded, we are revealed that you are spending your Loosh - to the extractors. (Science fiction mode kicked in, but I am not wrong)
- poulsbohemian 3y agoOur small town has won awards for its approach to homelessness, so FWIW... they have several sections... there is a building that is dorm style, and these are intended for walk-ins / very temporary needs. Then they have exactly what you suggest - small tilt-up pods that have power and heating. There is a shared shower building and I believe a separate "services" building. There's very much a program to get people through the system and ideally into long-term housing, with the pods in particular as a temporary dwelling. Apart from this program, there are of course warming shelters (generally church affiliated) with the big-room style shared space -- these are ultra-temporary and by anecdote appear to attract the majority of serious mental / drug issues, whereas the homeless program I described above is more people caught in bad economic / life decision scenarios.
- throwaway4aday 3y agoCities need to rewrite their laws on rooming houses. It's been many decades since they were put in place and their current form is a hindrance rather than a help. There aren't many in between options for people falling on hard times. Roommates, cheap apartment, motel room or you stay at some form of shelter. Proper rooming houses could fill that gap by being less expensive but still affording you your own space and perhaps be easier for some people such as the elderly or disabled if meals are provided.
- liveoneggs 3y agoShelters are full of rules. People need houses and freedom, even if they are very very small. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YbjKxdfE8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YbjKxdfE8Q A big innovation would be to add campground-like amenities (showers, water + power hookups, basic laundry nearby) to those "safe parking lots" - basically urban and suburban RV parks - would seriously help a lot of people. It's better to prevent new people from landing on the actual street than to wait until they get there to do stuff.
- joenot443 3y agoMy understanding is that the most meaningful and controversial of those rules, the one which states you can't do illegal drugs or be under their influence while at the shelter, is one which is frequently demanded by the shelter residents themselves. I mean it makes sense, if my child and I are homeless and I'm sharing a room with people in my situation, my preference would certainly be for them not to be smoking fentanyl right next to me. "People need freedom" is a nice truism, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the "freedom" provided to shelter residents be similar to the "freedom" one might expect in other types of shared housing.
- liveoneggs 3y agoI guess my own biases came through because when I read "people not going in shelters" my mind went to "addicts in tents". I assume a sober-enough homeless person, especially one with a child, which means the adult is more likely to be a woman, has access to some level of emergency shelter and is using it. I 100% agree with you that I would rather not be next to someone doing drugs, which is why they are annoying out in the streets! Addicts would rather do drugs on the street than not do drugs no matter what the incentive (the infamous "rock bottom"). Literally the only way to get them indoors is to allow drug use or arrest them.
- spcebar 3y agoWe have good solutions we know work for some unhoused people. They're just expensive, complicated, not one size fits all, and require a lot of political will. The first thing we have to say is, "we're going to use our resources to help people who need help" and not ask what's in it for us. Housing isn't the silver bullet for homelessness. For some homeless people, especially people who are just down on their luck and homeless for financial reasons, it can be, but housing isn't enough for the chronically unhoused who may have substance abuse problems, mental health problems, medical problems, or life skill problems that prevent them from thriving in housing. Conditions in homeless shelters can be bad, but snoring isn't the biggest problem. Theft is a problem in homeless shelters, as can be violence, both physical and sexual. Many homeless people have pets, and pets generally aren't allowed in shelters. Many shelters require sobriety, which excludes tons of homeless people with addictions, which might be the reason they ended up on the street in the first place. I think sleeping pods would be a bad idea, but maybe for some people it would be desirable. Some homeless people find shelters to be like jails, and avoid them for that reason. If you've experienced traumas that put you in that mindset I can only imagine what a claustrophobic sleeping space would be like. Mental healthcare, medical care, social services, good housing (with accessible transit), and compassion are means of treating homelessness. They're complicated, and they're expensive, and they're going to take a lot of political will to make happen. Any one of them alone is not enough to end homelessness. Donate to shelters if you can, buy a homeless person a meal if you can, treat them with dignity if you can. Not all homeless people are addicts, not all homeless people are grifters, not all homeless people are mentally ill. They're all in hard times and they're all humans, like you.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y agoThere are plenty of places where you can get a plot of land for under $50k, and there are plenty of ways to live on it for under $30k. You can have a warm insulated shelter, with heat, and a little electricity from solar. You can set up a composting toilet. It would be better than many Americans had at the start of the 20th century. But it will be illegal. It will not be up to code. We have attempted to solve poverty by making it illegal not to have enough money. Granted, there are people who cannot look out for themselves or be this self reliant. But the people who can, are not even left in peace to do it.
- bruhbruh78 3y ago[dead]
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoIce is among the prized [and expensive] luxuries for summertime homeless. When you add the daily expense, annual refrigeration approaches the cost of cell phone service. Adding an industrial ice machine to your local food kitchen can unburden a major expenditure for homeless' ice boxes. Just make sure you clean it [full defrost] every few months!
- egberts1 3y agoNothing beats comfort than learning from the Inuit tribe of Yukon Territory as well as the nomads of Sahara Desert.
- willmeyers 3y agoI met Bas, the inventor of Shelter Suit (https://sheltersuit.com https://sheltersuit.com) before Covid. Crazy dude, but in the best way possible.
- nektro 3y agothe solution to homelessness has been known for years. make housing cheaper.
- scumola 3y agoMy concept for a modular shelter: http://badcheese.com/blog/2024-02-02-ideas-for-modular-homeless-shelter.html http://badcheese.com/blog/2024-02-02-ideas-for-modular-homel...