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Juniper Networks to Combine with HPE
- whalesalad 3y agothe enshittifcation and conglomeration of all things continues.
- mc32 3y agoThe reverse happens too, HP split into HP and Agilent.
- rdist 3y agoSoon it will all be Taco Bell.
- eqvinox 3y agoDon't you mean Ma Bell, in this context? ;)
- modderation 3y agoNope, all Bells will be Taco Bells after the Franchise Wars. I wouldn't trust any other restaurant for my telecommunications and networking needs. Case in point, their 7-layer Burrito [1] offering maps perfectly to the OSI Model [2]. It is fully self-encapsulating (though occasionally leaky), and operates bidirectionally with full duplex support for correctly-configured clients. [1] https://tacobell.fandom.com/wiki/7-Layer_Burrito https://tacobell.fandom.com/wiki/7-Layer_Burrito [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
- oldnetguy 3y agoAnother one bites the dust
- shrubble 3y agoIt's sad, HPE will suck out all the life-force of Juniper; I have had other HP-acquired products and they never got better in subsequent offerings, only worse.
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoJuniper died today.
- mrweasel 3y agoWe have been testing equipment from other vendors, so that we could replace Juniper in the future, it needed. Those plans just became much more relevant, unless the plan is that Juniper takes the lead on HPE networking. HPE would have been purchased by Micro Focus is it wasn't a hardware company. It's really sad to see the decline, HP actually made some nice stuff, 15 - 20 years ago.
- insaneirish 3y ago> Those plans just became much more relevant, unless the plan is that Juniper takes the lead on HPE networking. Rami (Juniper CEO) is staying and leading.
- chasil 3y agoFamous HP(E) buyouts: - Digital Alpha: dead - Digital Storageworks: dead - Left Hand Networks: dead - 3par: dead And these are only the ones that died in my own datacenter; the full list is much longer.
- candiddevmike 3y agoAruba seems to have been mostly left alone post acquisition...
- tiberious726 3y agoNimble is still shockingly solid
- pavelstoev 3y agoHappy Juniper customer since 2010. Across SRX, EX, QFX lines. What to do now, what to do...
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoArista or whitebox switches, depending on how big you are and your appetite to DIY your network as code vs DIY writing configuration.
- NewJazz 3y agoWhat is a whitebox switch?
- __d 3y agoA generic switch motherboard, in a generic case, with a generic PSU. There's a boot standard, so you can install a range of different Linux-based OS distributions. Similar in spirit to a whitebox PC, hence the naming. Google has a zillion links.
- csours 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_box_(computer_hardware) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_box_(computer_hardware) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoIt's decoupling the hardware from the software of the switch. Historically, you buy a Cisco switch, you run IOS (or NX-OS). You buy a Juniper switch, you run JunOS. A company called Cumulus came around (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_Networks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_Networks) and changed a lot of that (they aren't solely responsible and there are other reasons why but they are very important here). At the same time, instead of each switch vendor making their own chips, Broadcom started making generic chips which they would sell to anyone (Lookup Broadcom Trident), so, many switch vendors started using those instead of custom silicon. At the same time, many people started talking about network as code and doing overlay networking things with control planes that didn't fit into the normal models for how these switches worked and were configured (configuration and routing changes which happen in milliseconds over custom protocols instead of ssh to switch and "configure, set route ..." etc etc). The convergence of this was that the network hardware and network software got decoupled and commoditized. You could buy a Juniper OCX (the OCX line was specifically for this) and install Cisco NX-OS on it if you wanted. Broadly this was a really good thing for the networking industry IMO. Also, all of the above generally only applies to the what people refer to as switches (though they can and do route), and not routers (think BGP edge routers) proper (which can and do switch) and are broadly still custom silicon ASIC with much more bespoke and advanced feature sets and can only run the vendor's software.
- AlbertCory 3y agoRead: "Bill & Dave" by Michael Malone. Agilent took the heart & soul of HP. Then it split further (Keysight et al) HP took the printers, which at least used to be a good business. HPE is the wretched refuse that's left.
- bayindirh 3y ago> HPE is the wretched refuse that's left. Cray tends to disagree...
- usr1106 3y ago> printers, which used to be a good business Good business as in earning money or as producing customer satisfaction? I don't know about the former, but I do know that HP printers are a horrible user experience these days. The printer is connected via USB, but it cannot be used without an internet connection to their data collection and ink selling cloud nonsense. I will never by anything from that brand again. (I used to be a HP fan since the 1980s.)
- woleium 3y agoNever buy a consumer print device. The enterprise kit from HP is still good.
- jasoneckert 3y agoI remember working with Juniper equipment a decade ago (I didn't like it because I've traditionally worked exclusively with Cisco equipment), but I haven't heard anyone in my circles mention Juniper since. Are they considered a niche vendor today (similar to Novell in the 2000s)?
- foobarian 3y agoI remember Juniper making news way back when by using FreeBSD as the OS for the router and that was supposed to have saved them a bunch of development resources and earned a bunch of nerd cred.
- nightfly 3y agoMy work has been buying Juniper switches lately since CISCO has largely priced us out.
- polski-g 3y agoWe switched to Juniper during COVID because the delivery times were like 9 months for Cisco
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoHaving worked with every vendor under the sun for networking equipment across my career, I enjoy working with Juniper by far the most. The configuration syntax works as expected, it's flexible but extensible in the right places and mostly has lots of knobs to tune things but without requiring extensive boilerplate to get things to work as expected. The hardware seems to fit intelligent niches and actually does what it says on the spec sheets. The system is FreeBSD, while that's a debatable choice in 2024 it's far better than the obscure OSes that others are using for their core systems. At the end of the day you can always just "start shell user root" and be root on a FreeBSD system. If you're a bit crafty on most Juniper systems you can also run unsigned code if you like. Some Juniper platforms (and not talking about just the huge ones, some of the 1U pizzabox switches) allow you to run a full-blown Linux system alongside the FreeBSD image (because they are actually Linux running FreeBSD on a hypervisor). JTAC was filled with skilled, intelligent engineers who actually cared and tried to solve your problems. (Not sure today as I haven't had to call them in years). The other TACs I've delt with were focused on call time and ticket handling metrics and would ask obviously pointless questions or repeat information you already provided for a fast close. I still remember calling JTAC during one outage we had. First L1 engineer after my initial description of the problem basically came back and said something like "that sounds like a really bad outage, please open SSH from 1.2.3.4 and add this public key and I'll login and get the information for L3." Within about 15 minutes I was on the phone with an L3 engineer who correctly diagnosed and proposed a fix for the issue. Amazing support. Not perfect, I have some horror stories too, but, always with people who cared and far less than with C or other vendors TACs. Very sad day.
- jgalt212 3y ago> Accelerating AI-Native Networking Leadership I think I just threw up in my mouth.
- AdamJacobMuller 3y agoThat was one of the worst things I've ever had the misfortune of reading.
- geodel 3y agoWell someone is diligently using latest version Corporate BS generator which has now included AI* stuff.
- Tommah 3y agoYou think you did. But if you were using Juniper's AI-Native Networking, you'd know for sure.
- mrweasel 3y agoI would very much like someone in charge at either HPE or Juniper to explain to me in plain English what that means exactly, in practical terms. I doubt it means anything.
- depereo 3y agoIt's as coherent as broadcom's 'new IP'
- insaneirish 3y agoThey are focused on their Mist product line which uses machine learning to troubleshoot and root cause issues.
- nickstinemates 3y agoAnd it is a fairly interesting product. Their direction seems to be this framing.. "why would I want to look at a set of graphs/metrics when I can have something tell me exactly what is wrong and make recommendations on how to fix?" Whether it works in practice or not, who knows. But it is interesting.
- yalogin 3y agoHPE is in the same boat as Juniper in terms of market and mindshare. I guess they want to see what it looks like to merge I guess
- user3939382 3y agoGreat let’s just have 2 vendors in every industry in the world with a combined 90% market share.
- usr1106 3y agoWhy only 90%? For smart phone operating systems it's higher I'd assume (not counting China, that's not a free country anyway). Same for desktop computers. A major failure of free market economics that is widely ignored by politics.
- jtriangle 3y agoWe don't have a free market economy, we have bought and paid for regulatory pressure and we call it 'free', while the reality is, it's the worst of both free market and planned economics.
- lrem 3y agoAh, no. For all the failings of the series of duopolies, it’s still not even near planned economics. Just think it through.
- wolverine876 3y agoThose very market giants have people repeating that it's the regulators, which are their bane, rather than the Republican Party, which do everything to undermine not only all regulation (you can see how people blaming the regulators would serve the Republicans), but every other aspect of government - even tax collection - that would stand in the way of the power of market oligarchs.
- jtriangle 3y agoThe party doesn't matter, government regulation is mostly allowed to exist at the behest of defacto monopolies. It sure as hell isn't the common man making these things happen, nor is it people who represent us in a meaningful way. It does play into their hands perfectly to blame 'the Republicans' or 'the Democrats', and it does indeed make the problem seem more solvable, easy solution right? Vote out the other guy, problem solved, except when we do that, problem not solved, it just changes the guy who's cashing the checks because the problem is much, much bigger than that (and those that cause the problem are much smarter than that).
- _cormorant 3y agoI work in a primarily Juniper environment, and I'm not that familiar with HPE (Did they previously have anything in the networking space?). It's sounding pretty doom-and-gloom in here, what should my level of concern be? I would be pretty bummed to change vendor. Junos is probably my favorite networking OS. The CLI is comfortable, BSD is never too far away, and the config structure is gorgeous. IOS (and similar) can really be a pain to read by comparison.
- wmf 3y agoHP had their own ProCurve networking and they also bought Aruba. We don't know what HPE is going to do to Juniper specifically, but in general many acquisitions either raise prices or simplify the product line by canceling some products. In this case HPE may cancel some Aruba products and replace them with Mist equivalents.
- neilalexander 3y agoThey also inherited 3Com from HP and the range of H3C switches were far superior to ProCurve for many years. I think they only offloaded their stake last year.
- tlivolsi 3y agoI work in HPC, and we saw the quality of support completely plummet after HPE bought Cray.
- zamadatix 3y agoI work at a network VAR partnered with both of these companies, but these thoughts are my own assumptions. HPE didn't immediately implode Aruba, I don't think they'll immediately implode Juniper either. That said, I don't think it's a good move as a fan of Juniper myself. I think Mist/AI led the desire for the acquisition, particularly with their performance in the lower end market last year vs HPE Aruba type products which usually win for higher end enterprise. I'm cautious about how they'll handle the other product lines, particularly on how much the care about them. Obviously nothing is disappearing overnight though, this will be something that shakes out over years.
- green-salt 3y agoAhhhh this explains why they (Juniper) have been a nightmare to deal with lately.
- meerinor 3y agoJuniper has no cohesion in their product offering, so fits well with HPE who also fail in this regard. They had all the pieces, ex/qfx/srx/128t/mist/aapstra/mx/ptx to build any network you needed, but no ability to fully integrate all of the things. Surprising that HPE acquires them considering they already competitors across half of those things procurve/silverpeak/aruba/plexxi.
- sciencesama 3y agoand now juniper will perish !!
- nodesocket 3y agoAny good leads on some “cheap” Juniper 10Gbps switches?
- polski-g 3y agoEbay
- rasz 3y agoIm getting nineties Nortel Bay Networks all stock flashbacks. The Company that Broke Canada - BobbyBroccoli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xwMIUPHss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xwMIUPHss
- m01 3y agoThey already acquired Aruba in 2015 (https://investors.hpe.com/financial/acquisitions https://investors.hpe.com/financial/acquisitions)...
- mooreds 3y agoFrom the press release[0]: "The combination is expected to achieve operating efficiencies and run-rate annual cost synergies of $450 million within 36 months post close." Not that such layoffs are unexpected. 0: https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-Acquire-Juniper-Networks-to-Accelerate-AI-Driven-Innovation/ https://newsroom.juniper.net/news/news-details/2024/HPE-to-A...
- wcchandler 3y agoI was always a fan of HP and 3com for networking over Cisco. It was easy to keep gear assigned to specific tasks. This is our core switch. This is the core router. Pricing kept this amenable to management. Juniper was never "in the budget" as a viable alternative. I'm currently at a Cisco shop that purchased their first Juniper switch 12 months ago for Equinix cross-connects to the cloud. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
- FL410 3y agoThis has the potential to be good. HPE has mostly let the (superior) Aruba line grow as they were, and TBH the CX stuff is quite good. They don't have any enterprise class routing/firewalls. Their AP hardware is great but Central can be frustrating. If they can put the pieces together without fucking things up, there's a good product line up here at a time when people are sick and tired of Cisco's licensing antics. TBD...
- bluedino 3y agoHPE took over Aruba wireless and Nimble storage. We used both products. They didn't fuck with Nimble support much. As of a few years ago, it was still great. Aruba wireless...oh man. The support was so terrible. We had some high availability controllers go out of sync. Couple hours on the phone, no resolution. Had a bunch of back and forth, another couple calls, nothing. It was sort of funny (and sad) watching a different 'tech' try the same scripted steps, over and over again. Finally I was able to get the issue escalated, and the next guy I talked to seemed to really know his shit. Made some fundamental changes that should have never been that way in the first place, he got one controller back on, and then in the middle the next controller, he fucking bailed off the call and left us in the hands of a new guy. A new guy who couldn't fix it. He actually broke it in a new away, and then our maintenance window closed. Two more maintenance windows later, nothing fixed, same useless drones trying the same crap, I just gave up. I ended up fixing the last bad controller myself. My organization was paying almost my salary per year for this 'support' contract. What a joke.