7 ms·

You can arrive at your own conclusion. I think its pretty obvious whats happening here (the commissioners voted along party lines right down the middle). And

You can arrive at your own conclusion. I think its pretty obvious whats happening here (the commissioners voted along party lines right down the middle). And theres no other company thats even close to Starlink now or in the medium term future. So I dont know who would practically fill this spot. For below comment: This is for "rural" connection. You're not laying wire for that regardless of what Comcast wants you to believe. They can barely service what they have and the cost/benefit of laying 30 miles of wire to reach someone in the woods is never going to make sense.

ecshafer 3y ago
Verizon was able to lay fiber all over rural New York in a pretty short amount of time due to a New York law for similar rural funding. Places that couldn't even get cable have fiber now. Just laying fiber is an alternative to satellite.
- joecool1029 3y ago
  Do want to point out buildout requirements that are actually enforced in NY would be strongly compelling. Spectrum was heavily fined and had their license suspended on cable for failing to meet these commitments a few years back. Other states just dole out the money without punishing the companies that cash out dividends and use it for mergers.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
I'd rather the federal government just roll out fiber and not put Starlink and Elon in a position of power. That fiber will always be in the ground and available. Elon has shown himself to be unworthy of any position where trust and good judgement is required. If it costs more, that is a premium worth paying. Fool me once. https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/26/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-over-40-billion-to-connect-everyone-in-america-to-affordable-reliable-high-speed-internet/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-probe-starlink-operations-in-ukraine/ https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-pro... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk-starlink-internet-satellite-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk... https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of-starlink-gives-him-unchecked-power-over-elected-governments https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of... https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferred-control-of-starlink-to-the-us-military https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferr... (disclosure: starlink customer)
- willcipriano 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Instead of a simple comment about historical grants, you perhaps could educate yourself on current state grants and efforts. Trying and failing previously doesn't mean trying something different shouldn't be done, you know? Should we just give up because of previous mistakes? No, absolutely not. That is failure.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      You're replying to an accurate comment about how government funding works. I am educated on this, I have worked off of government grant money often, it's 100% who you know, not what you do.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Also involved in government procurement, also provide guidance to several Congressional reps gratis as a technologist subject matter expert. Change is possible, to believe otherwise is to give up. If you want to give up, head to the bar and make way for people who give a shit. I give a shit, so I am admittedly biased.
        rpmisms 3y ago
        You're being incredibly optimistic. Show me a non-greedy person in Congress, with the exception of Thomas Massie, and I'll believe you that change is possible.
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        https://www.sanders.senate.gov/ https://www.sanders.senate.gov/ https://www.wyden.senate.gov/ https://www.wyden.senate.gov/ https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/ https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/ https://foster.house.gov/ https://foster.house.gov/ https://frost.house.gov/ https://frost.house.gov/ Hope is in short supply, but not at empty yet. Make sure to vote every election. 1.8M voters over the age of 55 die every year in the US, and 4M voters age into voting at 18. Demographics are inevitable. As I tell the young folks, Hold Fast. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/07/the-changing-face-of-congress/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/07/the-chang... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-future-3/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-... https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/41-million-members-gen-z-will-be-eligible-vote-2024 https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/41-million-members-... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/maxwell-frost-will-be-the-first-gen-z-member-of-congress.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/maxwell-frost-will-be-the-fi... (disclaimer: I have maxed out my FEC political contributions to every rep enumerated due to my belief in their character; if someone's character changes or evidence surfaces they are not a good person, my support changes accordingly)
coding123 3y ago
That's what I read too: you're not democratic enough elon
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
It's a letter from one FCC commissioner, of which there are currently 5. He dissents from the decision the commission as a whole came to. There are a lot of companies on the ground that could benefit from that ~$900 million so a single company replacing Starlink is not necessary. The main concern is if the FCC give Starlink money to reach 100/20 and they don't do it (because there are legitimate technical issues to solve before it's possible for Starlink to supply over half a million people with 100/20), it's wasted money. The FCC didn't think it was doable on that time scale. Doing some math, currently each satellite launch sends up 22 satellites at around 2.8 Gbps per satellite. For each launch, Starlink adds ~61.6 Gbps of capacity. If we cut that up into 100/20 slices, each launch supports 616 customers at 100/20. To support 650,000 subscribers at 100/20, it would take about 1055 perfect launches. I don't think the FCC was wrong when they said Starlink could not reach 650,000 people at 100/20 by 2025. There aren't enough days to launch one rocket a day to even try to catch up.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  you're ignoring over-provisioning which generally is ~10x
  - cma 3y ago
    The terms of these subsidies only allow 4X oversubscription.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      ok, so that still cuts down the amount of launches by 4x which takes them from 1055 launches to 260 launches. Over 2 years that would require doubling Starlink's launch cadence which is a lot, but does seem plausible.
      - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
        So to make the 2025 deadline they would have had to perfectly launch more rockets than they ever have before...sounds like the FCC made the correct choice.
mcguire 3y ago
Farmer's Telecom Coop service map, Jackson County and nearby, AL. https://connect.farmerstel.com/front_end/zones https://connect.farmerstel.com/front_end/zones Yes, it's fiber. Yes, to the home. Currently, 93Mbps down, 83 Mbps up (but I have the cheap service). And the service is a crap-ton better than that of Spectrum in NC.

ecshafer 3y ago

Verizon was able to lay fiber all over rural New York in a pretty short amount of time due to a New York law for similar rural funding. Places that couldn't even get cable have fiber now. Just laying fiber is an alternative to satellite.

joecool1029 3y ago
Do want to point out buildout requirements that are actually enforced in NY would be strongly compelling. Spectrum was heavily fined and had their license suspended on cable for failing to meet these commitments a few years back. Other states just dole out the money without punishing the companies that cash out dividends and use it for mergers.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

I'd rather the federal government just roll out fiber and not put Starlink and Elon in a position of power. That fiber will always be in the ground and available. Elon has shown himself to be unworthy of any position where trust and good judgement is required. If it costs more, that is a premium worth paying. Fool me once. https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/26/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-over-40-billion-to-connect-everyone-in-america-to-affordable-reliable-high-speed-internet/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-probe-starlink-operations-in-ukraine/ https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-pro... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk-starlink-internet-satellite-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk... https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of-starlink-gives-him-unchecked-power-over-elected-governments https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of... https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferred-control-of-starlink-to-the-us-military https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferr... (disclosure: starlink customer)

willcipriano 3y ago
[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Instead of a simple comment about historical grants, you perhaps could educate yourself on current state grants and efforts. Trying and failing previously doesn't mean trying something different shouldn't be done, you know? Should we just give up because of previous mistakes? No, absolutely not. That is failure.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    You're replying to an accurate comment about how government funding works. I am educated on this, I have worked off of government grant money often, it's 100% who you know, not what you do.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Also involved in government procurement, also provide guidance to several Congressional reps gratis as a technologist subject matter expert. Change is possible, to believe otherwise is to give up. If you want to give up, head to the bar and make way for people who give a shit. I give a shit, so I am admittedly biased.
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        You're being incredibly optimistic. Show me a non-greedy person in Congress, with the exception of Thomas Massie, and I'll believe you that change is possible.
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        https://www.sanders.senate.gov/ https://www.sanders.senate.gov/ https://www.wyden.senate.gov/ https://www.wyden.senate.gov/ https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/ https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/ https://foster.house.gov/ https://foster.house.gov/ https://frost.house.gov/ https://frost.house.gov/ Hope is in short supply, but not at empty yet. Make sure to vote every election. 1.8M voters over the age of 55 die every year in the US, and 4M voters age into voting at 18. Demographics are inevitable. As I tell the young folks, Hold Fast. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/07/the-changing-face-of-congress/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/07/the-chang... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-future-3/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-... https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/41-million-members-gen-z-will-be-eligible-vote-2024 https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/41-million-members-... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/maxwell-frost-will-be-the-first-gen-z-member-of-congress.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/maxwell-frost-will-be-the-fi... (disclaimer: I have maxed out my FEC political contributions to every rep enumerated due to my belief in their character; if someone's character changes or evidence surfaces they are not a good person, my support changes accordingly)

coding123 3y ago

That's what I read too: you're not democratic enough elon

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

It's a letter from one FCC commissioner, of which there are currently 5. He dissents from the decision the commission as a whole came to. There are a lot of companies on the ground that could benefit from that ~$900 million so a single company replacing Starlink is not necessary. The main concern is if the FCC give Starlink money to reach 100/20 and they don't do it (because there are legitimate technical issues to solve before it's possible for Starlink to supply over half a million people with 100/20), it's wasted money. The FCC didn't think it was doable on that time scale. Doing some math, currently each satellite launch sends up 22 satellites at around 2.8 Gbps per satellite. For each launch, Starlink adds ~61.6 Gbps of capacity. If we cut that up into 100/20 slices, each launch supports 616 customers at 100/20. To support 650,000 subscribers at 100/20, it would take about 1055 perfect launches. I don't think the FCC was wrong when they said Starlink could not reach 650,000 people at 100/20 by 2025. There aren't enough days to launch one rocket a day to even try to catch up.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
you're ignoring over-provisioning which generally is ~10x
- cma 3y ago
  The terms of these subsidies only allow 4X oversubscription.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    ok, so that still cuts down the amount of launches by 4x which takes them from 1055 launches to 260 launches. Over 2 years that would require doubling Starlink's launch cadence which is a lot, but does seem plausible.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      So to make the 2025 deadline they would have had to perfectly launch more rockets than they ever have before...sounds like the FCC made the correct choice.

mcguire 3y ago

Farmer's Telecom Coop service map, Jackson County and nearby, AL. https://connect.farmerstel.com/front_end/zones https://connect.farmerstel.com/front_end/zones Yes, it's fiber. Yes, to the home. Currently, 93Mbps down, 83 Mbps up (but I have the cheap service). And the service is a crap-ton better than that of Spectrum in NC.