7 ms·

These are future speed metrics, not current speed thresholds. And the performance metrics have been a constant shifting goalpost. You can read FCC Commissioner

These are future speed metrics, not current speed thresholds. And the performance metrics have been a constant shifting goalpost. You can read FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr's letter on this matter here: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-105A2.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-105A2.pdf This is most likely political.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago
I read that letter, and was unconvinced that it's anything more than the FCC not wanting to gamble with nearly 1/16th of the total RDOF grant money (for that round) and would rather give it to a company that can be reasonably expected to hit the obligatory throughput. If Starlink bid for 25/3 they might have made it.
- tick_tock_tick 3y ago
  So basically now 15/16th of the money goes into a void to never actually get service to anyone.
  - devindotcom 3y ago
    no, it will be awarded to other applicants instead.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Not necessarily. This round of grants is closed. There is no guarantee that this money will be rolled into the next round. In fact, that seems quite unlikely to me.
      - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
        >Phase 1: Will provide up to $16.4 billion >Phase 2: Will provide at least $4.4 billion When it says "at least $4.4 billion" that leaves the door open for phase 1 fund rollover. We'll see eventually. Maybe Starlink can get some money in phase 2. 1. https://rdof.com/rdof https://rdof.com/rdof
    - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
      I don't understand why you're just rephrasing my comment.
  - weswilson 3y ago
    Anecdotally, my dad lives in a rural area with no cable/DSL broadband available. Cellular broadband only got him 10-15 Mbps. He was excited when Starlink was available. I think he was pretty early on the preorder list. Once he finally got access to Starlink (Feb 2022) the speeds were close to the advertised ~100 Mbps. Now the price has increased and on average he's back to getting like 15-20 Mbps down. Luckily, the EMC that services the area received some rural broadband grant money to roll out FTTH and that build out has been pretty quick. They have already run fiber down his road and said that service should be available in a couple of months. The EMC is offering 2 Gbps down / 1-2 Gbps up (!!!) for $100/mo. So this money is actually being spent effectively when it goes to the right place. Starlink made a bunch of promises that they couldn't fulfill and the money is being redirected, as it should be.
    - isk517 3y ago
      I feel like in 90% of Starlinks use cases it is only the best option because they are the most motivated to succeed. Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution but the telecoms have made far to much money by taking money then not delivering.
      - LegitShady 3y ago
        >Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution It's permanent but it depends on what the word practical means. Often the cost of setting up infrastructure for such low density population means the infrastructure will never pay for itself, or that the same money spent elsewhere would service many more customers, so its not necessarily practical.
      - grecy 3y ago
        > Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution Not when you're 50+ miles from the nearest anything. Don't think of people that live kind of near a town and still get LTE. Think of people that drive for hours and still don't get LTE.
    - reddog 3y ago
- trident5000 3y ago
  You can arrive at your own conclusion. I think its pretty obvious whats happening here (the commissioners voted along party lines right down the middle). And theres no other company thats even close to Starlink now or in the medium term future. So I dont know who would practically fill this spot. For below comment: This is for "rural" connection. You're not laying wire for that regardless of what Comcast wants you to believe. They can barely service what they have and the cost/benefit of laying 30 miles of wire to reach someone in the woods is never going to make sense.
  - ecshafer 3y ago
    Verizon was able to lay fiber all over rural New York in a pretty short amount of time due to a New York law for similar rural funding. Places that couldn't even get cable have fiber now. Just laying fiber is an alternative to satellite.
    - joecool1029 3y ago
      Do want to point out buildout requirements that are actually enforced in NY would be strongly compelling. Spectrum was heavily fined and had their license suspended on cable for failing to meet these commitments a few years back. Other states just dole out the money without punishing the companies that cash out dividends and use it for mergers.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I'd rather the federal government just roll out fiber and not put Starlink and Elon in a position of power. That fiber will always be in the ground and available. Elon has shown himself to be unworthy of any position where trust and good judgement is required. If it costs more, that is a premium worth paying. Fool me once. https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/26/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-over-40-billion-to-connect-everyone-in-america-to-affordable-reliable-high-speed-internet/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-probe-starlink-operations-in-ukraine/ https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-pro... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk-starlink-internet-satellite-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk... https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of-starlink-gives-him-unchecked-power-over-elected-governments https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of... https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferred-control-of-starlink-to-the-us-military https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferr... (disclosure: starlink customer)
oooyay 3y ago
This letter is junk, to put it lightly. I lived in a rural area with copper lines that were destined to stay that way because of classist inaction by the FCC - one that rewarded cities with new, expanded internet lines repeatedly and required vast parts of rural America to be torn up for backbones that they weren't allowed to tap, or could only be tapped with inexpensive copper lines mandated through telephony requirements. To put it less lightly, 100/20 is still a joke and a clear discrepancy between what's offered in most US cities and suburbs. The Biden Administration is trying to fix that history with the FCCs mandate; I don't care about whether Elon's satellite business is worth it in the end. I do care whether rural people get stable, dependable, fast internet that doesn't become irrelevant the moment it's laid.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
Just FYI, in case it makes a difference to your assessment of credibility, but this is the same commissioner who opposes net neutrality, wants to rework the CDA to deal with the way "the far left has worked to weaponize social media platforms", hopes to have TikTok banned in the interest of national security, and appeared on Fox News to talk about how "the far-left has hopped from hoax to hoax to hoax to explain how it lost to President Trump at the ballot box". When you say it is most likely political, it certainly is, because Carr and Simington (who was rammed through the Senate at the last moment by the Trump administration) are pretty much the definition of partisan. People who were paying attention to the development of this situation back in 2020/21 saw it coming.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

I read that letter, and was unconvinced that it's anything more than the FCC not wanting to gamble with nearly 1/16th of the total RDOF grant money (for that round) and would rather give it to a company that can be reasonably expected to hit the obligatory throughput. If Starlink bid for 25/3 they might have made it.

tick_tock_tick 3y ago
So basically now 15/16th of the money goes into a void to never actually get service to anyone.
- devindotcom 3y ago
  no, it will be awarded to other applicants instead.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Not necessarily. This round of grants is closed. There is no guarantee that this money will be rolled into the next round. In fact, that seems quite unlikely to me.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      >Phase 1: Will provide up to $16.4 billion >Phase 2: Will provide at least $4.4 billion When it says "at least $4.4 billion" that leaves the door open for phase 1 fund rollover. We'll see eventually. Maybe Starlink can get some money in phase 2. 1. https://rdof.com/rdof https://rdof.com/rdof
  - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
    I don't understand why you're just rephrasing my comment.
- weswilson 3y ago
  Anecdotally, my dad lives in a rural area with no cable/DSL broadband available. Cellular broadband only got him 10-15 Mbps. He was excited when Starlink was available. I think he was pretty early on the preorder list. Once he finally got access to Starlink (Feb 2022) the speeds were close to the advertised ~100 Mbps. Now the price has increased and on average he's back to getting like 15-20 Mbps down. Luckily, the EMC that services the area received some rural broadband grant money to roll out FTTH and that build out has been pretty quick. They have already run fiber down his road and said that service should be available in a couple of months. The EMC is offering 2 Gbps down / 1-2 Gbps up (!!!) for $100/mo. So this money is actually being spent effectively when it goes to the right place. Starlink made a bunch of promises that they couldn't fulfill and the money is being redirected, as it should be.
  - isk517 3y ago
    I feel like in 90% of Starlinks use cases it is only the best option because they are the most motivated to succeed. Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution but the telecoms have made far to much money by taking money then not delivering.
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      >Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution It's permanent but it depends on what the word practical means. Often the cost of setting up infrastructure for such low density population means the infrastructure will never pay for itself, or that the same money spent elsewhere would service many more customers, so its not necessarily practical.
    - grecy 3y ago
      > Running traditional wired service is the more practical and permanent solution Not when you're 50+ miles from the nearest anything. Don't think of people that live kind of near a town and still get LTE. Think of people that drive for hours and still don't get LTE.
  - reddog 3y ago
trident5000 3y ago
You can arrive at your own conclusion. I think its pretty obvious whats happening here (the commissioners voted along party lines right down the middle). And theres no other company thats even close to Starlink now or in the medium term future. So I dont know who would practically fill this spot. For below comment: This is for "rural" connection. You're not laying wire for that regardless of what Comcast wants you to believe. They can barely service what they have and the cost/benefit of laying 30 miles of wire to reach someone in the woods is never going to make sense.
- ecshafer 3y ago
  Verizon was able to lay fiber all over rural New York in a pretty short amount of time due to a New York law for similar rural funding. Places that couldn't even get cable have fiber now. Just laying fiber is an alternative to satellite.
  - joecool1029 3y ago
    Do want to point out buildout requirements that are actually enforced in NY would be strongly compelling. Spectrum was heavily fined and had their license suspended on cable for failing to meet these commitments a few years back. Other states just dole out the money without punishing the companies that cash out dividends and use it for mergers.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I'd rather the federal government just roll out fiber and not put Starlink and Elon in a position of power. That fiber will always be in the ground and available. Elon has shown himself to be unworthy of any position where trust and good judgement is required. If it costs more, that is a premium worth paying. Fool me once. https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.internetforall.gov/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/06/26/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-over-40-billion-to-connect-everyone-in-america-to-affordable-reliable-high-speed-internet/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-probe-starlink-operations-in-ukraine/ https://spacenews.com/senate-armed-services-committee-to-pro... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk-starlink-internet-satellite-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/30/elon-musk... https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of-starlink-gives-him-unchecked-power-over-elected-governments https://www.cnas.org/press/in-the-news/elon-musks-control-of... https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferred-control-of-starlink-to-the-us-military https://babel.ua/en/news/98461-elon-musk-partially-transferr... (disclosure: starlink customer)

oooyay 3y ago

This letter is junk, to put it lightly. I lived in a rural area with copper lines that were destined to stay that way because of classist inaction by the FCC - one that rewarded cities with new, expanded internet lines repeatedly and required vast parts of rural America to be torn up for backbones that they weren't allowed to tap, or could only be tapped with inexpensive copper lines mandated through telephony requirements. To put it less lightly, 100/20 is still a joke and a clear discrepancy between what's offered in most US cities and suburbs. The Biden Administration is trying to fix that history with the FCCs mandate; I don't care about whether Elon's satellite business is worth it in the end. I do care whether rural people get stable, dependable, fast internet that doesn't become irrelevant the moment it's laid.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

Just FYI, in case it makes a difference to your assessment of credibility, but this is the same commissioner who opposes net neutrality, wants to rework the CDA to deal with the way "the far left has worked to weaponize social media platforms", hopes to have TikTok banned in the interest of national security, and appeared on Fox News to talk about how "the far-left has hopped from hoax to hoax to hoax to explain how it lost to President Trump at the ballot box". When you say it is most likely political, it certainly is, because Carr and Simington (who was rammed through the Senate at the last moment by the Trump administration) are pretty much the definition of partisan. People who were paying attention to the development of this situation back in 2020/21 saw it coming.