6 ms·

Demoscene - The Art of the Algorithms

152 points by AbyCodes 14y ago

DrJokepu 14y ago
I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.
- pheon 14y ago
  same here but mid 90`s oh the nostalgia. Kinda surprising, demogroups were kinda like small startups at least on the production side. biz side/product development/customer development/etc etc ... non existent, guess that`s why it was so fun. Still great learning experience for a kid.
  - ArekDymalski 14y ago
    Actually this comparison to startups can be extended. In case of demogroups PR was very important, there were strong brands, you had to apply for the positions etc. That was fun&learning not only on the technical side but also about teamwork, coping with failure on the party etc.
  - Jare 14y ago
    At Iguana we even had a QA department! But yeah it was nothing like a startup because there were no responsibilities or requirements, everyone just did whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted, and if it gelled into a demo, then great. It was all about exploring shared interests and having fun.
- Cushman 14y ago
  What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?
  - mjn 14y ago
    Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me (http://www.visitproteus.com/ http://www.visitproteus.com/). Main difference imo is more focus on the procedural interactivity from an experiential perspective, and less focus on technical virtuosity.
    - rollypolly 14y ago
      Indeed, many people went from the demoscene to the game industry. Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment
      - forza 14y ago
        ..and a lot of other northen european games companies. http://www.4players.de/4sceners.php/dispbericht/-/5157/0/index.html http://www.4players.de/4sceners.php/dispbericht/-/5157/0/ind...
    - Cushman 14y ago
      But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?
      - pheon 14y ago
        market absolutely, look at the amount of scene stuff on the web. I think your question is, will someone pay money for a pure off the wall demo - short answer is no. long answer is they kinda have for a while, futuremark was the classic commercialized demo. difference tho is, it had a utility besides the eye candy.
      - leif 14y ago
        Yes, there is, but the way to break in is to start with things incorporating programs in small ways within a larger piece, call it experimental, and slowly make the composition more computer-centric.
- skrebbel 14y ago
  group name, handles, id numbers please! in fact, there's plenty of active demosceners here on HN. -waves!-
  - enqk 14y ago
    hello :)
    - skrebbel 14y ago
      knos, you change handle too fast.
      - enqk 14y ago
        As fast as a ukulele loses its tuning! It is harder and harder, and maybe it does not feel as relevant as before anymore, to preserve the pseudonymity the scene valued. It's certainly something that always attracted me.
        tripzilch 14y ago
        Blame Google+ ;-)
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    Ritz, 4k coder. But you probably knew that already. Is it true what you said in the other thread, all the Dutch sceners are unemployed? :) Something in the drinking water at Bizarre, perhaps? :) My releases: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=343 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=343 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=291 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=291 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=332 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=332 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=333 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=333 (You might need one of those DOSbox tools to get sound or to run at all though. They were targeted at Win98/2k, Meuk completely stopped working with XP)
sp332 14y ago
This is a great collection of links. And it's extremely up-to-date - that last demo, Gaia Machina, just came out last week!
- defdac 14y ago
  Wow. Just wow. 64kb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kx66_i3ue4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kx66_i3ue4
  - sp332 14y ago
    Somehow, to me anyway, it loses something if you just watch a video of it. If you have the hardware for it, you can download the binary from http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59107 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59107 and run it in real-time on your own machine, the way it was intended :)
  - z303 14y ago
    F - Felix’s Workshop by Ctrl-Alt-Test the 2nd place 64K is also very very good, so much crammed into a small file http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/20960247819/f-felixs-workshop-by-ctrl-alt-test-released-at http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/20960247819/f-felixs-wor...
aw3c2 14y ago
Don't miss the BBS Documentary's Artscene episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ReS4Bp4IPY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ReS4Bp4IPY seems to be a copy of it.
CobaltHex 14y ago
This was an awesome documentary, even though I am not currently writing anything for the scene I still like to watch what they do and I generally try and tune into streams of the parties. Fun times
sgt 14y ago
Good to see the Demoscene is alive and well in Europe! I haven't dabbled in the Demoscene since way before I left the continent.
rabidsnail 14y ago
More links: http://capped.tv http://capped.tv - recordings of demos http://pouet.net http://pouet.net - combination forum and demo repository
dsirijus 14y ago
Actually, demo scene could get some jobs if flash player 3d content spins well. Anything procedural is great in there.
ChrisNorstrom 14y ago
THIS (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/screenshots http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr...) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost. I was devastated to find the group's website is gone and the game's page no longer on the internet. For those of you who want to experience it I've got it on my server here: http://data.chrisnorstrom.com/hosting/kkrieger-beta.zip http://data.chrisnorstrom.com/hosting/kkrieger-beta.zip. They were probably the best group out there. Looks like they closed up show because their site theprodukt is closed for good. I knew a really good Demoscene coder, and he introduced the culture to me. He worked on synthetic procedurally generated voices (which is really hard). But the problem is that the bar to entry is extremely high because it's all algorithms and the culture is all about fun, not profit. So the community stays small. Why spend months making lights and patterns react to music in a 64kb file when you can make a 200mb game or animated and sell it. The means do not justify the ends, thus most people will never know the awesomeness of demoscene.
- jimminy 14y ago
  A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2]. [1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114 http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114
  - Centigonal 14y ago
    IIRC, .theprodukkt is/was Farbrausch's commercial "arm."'
    - jimminy 14y ago
      You're right. I just did a quick search, and didn't double check the info.
    - 14y ago
Centigonal 14y ago
Woooooooaaaah! A demoscene link appears on HN! I'm really excited that you guys seem to be interested in this! You guys should watch this movie! http://molemanfilm.com/about-moleman/about-moleman-2/ http://molemanfilm.com/about-moleman/about-moleman-2/ It's very good, and also on Youtube. It'll tell you all about the demoscene! you'll enjoy it! -mkC/3LN: The clumsiest ever Note: This post used to have a lot of redundancy inside of it, but that's gone now!
vigo 14y ago
well. there is only one thing left to be told: amiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigaaaaaaaa (::
mulytani 14y ago
I was wondering: how recruiters perceive demoers ?, in: - start-up - big companies Should you put this activity on your resume or totally hide it ?

152 points by AbyCodes 14y ago

I used to be the coder of a small demoscene team in the early 2000's. I never had as much fun writing computer programs ever since then. It was creating awesome stuff just for the sake of awesomeness.

pheon 14y ago
same here but mid 90`s oh the nostalgia. Kinda surprising, demogroups were kinda like small startups at least on the production side. biz side/product development/customer development/etc etc ... non existent, guess that`s why it was so fun. Still great learning experience for a kid.
- ArekDymalski 14y ago
  Actually this comparison to startups can be extended. In case of demogroups PR was very important, there were strong brands, you had to apply for the positions etc. That was fun&learning not only on the technical side but also about teamwork, coping with failure on the party etc.
- Jare 14y ago
  At Iguana we even had a QA department! But yeah it was nothing like a startup because there were no responsibilities or requirements, everyone just did whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted, and if it gelled into a demo, then great. It was all about exploring shared interests and having fun.
Cushman 14y ago
What do you think is stopping demos from taking off as a serious commercial art form? Just culture, or something more fundamental?
- mjn 14y ago
  Interactive demo-like things have been taking off lately, but mostly under the label "games" (which sells more), even in the case where the game-ness is pretty minimal. Not sure if they're explicitly inspired by the demoscene or not, but interactive-procedural-graphics-and-sound stuff like Proteus feels very much like a demoscene production to me (http://www.visitproteus.com/ http://www.visitproteus.com/). Main difference imo is more focus on the procedural interactivity from an experiential perspective, and less focus on technical virtuosity.
  - rollypolly 14y ago
    Indeed, many people went from the demoscene to the game industry. Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment
    - forza 14y ago
      ..and a lot of other northen european games companies. http://www.4players.de/4sceners.php/dispbericht/-/5157/0/index.html http://www.4players.de/4sceners.php/dispbericht/-/5157/0/ind...
  - Cushman 14y ago
    But strictly demos are non-interactive, right? That's the question I have: Is there a market for a pure-digital multimedia art form beside games?
    - pheon 14y ago
      market absolutely, look at the amount of scene stuff on the web. I think your question is, will someone pay money for a pure off the wall demo - short answer is no. long answer is they kinda have for a while, futuremark was the classic commercialized demo. difference tho is, it had a utility besides the eye candy.
    - leif 14y ago
      Yes, there is, but the way to break in is to start with things incorporating programs in small ways within a larger piece, call it experimental, and slowly make the composition more computer-centric.
skrebbel 14y ago
group name, handles, id numbers please! in fact, there's plenty of active demosceners here on HN. -waves!-
- enqk 14y ago
  hello :)
  - skrebbel 14y ago
    knos, you change handle too fast.
    - enqk 14y ago
      As fast as a ukulele loses its tuning! It is harder and harder, and maybe it does not feel as relevant as before anymore, to preserve the pseudonymity the scene valued. It's certainly something that always attracted me.
      - tripzilch 14y ago
        Blame Google+ ;-)
- tripzilch 14y ago
  Ritz, 4k coder. But you probably knew that already. Is it true what you said in the other thread, all the Dutch sceners are unemployed? :) Something in the drinking water at Bizarre, perhaps? :) My releases: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=343 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=343 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=291 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=291 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=332 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=332 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=333 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=333 (You might need one of those DOSbox tools to get sound or to run at all though. They were targeted at Win98/2k, Meuk completely stopped working with XP)

sp332 14y ago

This is a great collection of links. And it's extremely up-to-date - that last demo, Gaia Machina, just came out last week!

defdac 14y ago
Wow. Just wow. 64kb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kx66_i3ue4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kx66_i3ue4
- sp332 14y ago
  Somehow, to me anyway, it loses something if you just watch a video of it. If you have the hardware for it, you can download the binary from http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59107 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59107 and run it in real-time on your own machine, the way it was intended :)
- z303 14y ago
  F - Felix’s Workshop by Ctrl-Alt-Test the 2nd place 64K is also very very good, so much crammed into a small file http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/20960247819/f-felixs-workshop-by-ctrl-alt-test-released-at http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/20960247819/f-felixs-wor...

aw3c2 14y ago

Don't miss the BBS Documentary's Artscene episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ReS4Bp4IPY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ReS4Bp4IPY seems to be a copy of it.

CobaltHex 14y ago

This was an awesome documentary, even though I am not currently writing anything for the scene I still like to watch what they do and I generally try and tune into streams of the parties. Fun times

sgt 14y ago

Good to see the Demoscene is alive and well in Europe! I haven't dabbled in the Demoscene since way before I left the continent.

rabidsnail 14y ago

More links: http://capped.tv http://capped.tv - recordings of demos http://pouet.net http://pouet.net - combination forum and demo repository

dsirijus 14y ago

Actually, demo scene could get some jobs if flash player 3d content spins well. Anything procedural is great in there.

ChrisNorstrom 14y ago

THIS (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/screenshots http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/kkrieger-chapter-1/scr...) Entire game (interactive demoscene) is only 96kb. It's all procedurally generated which is what demoscene is all about. Everything you see, sound, music, textures, models, is just code. No images or audio what-so-ever. Just algorithms that generate shapes within shapes, within shapes. Like fractals almost. I was devastated to find the group's website is gone and the game's page no longer on the internet. For those of you who want to experience it I've got it on my server here: http://data.chrisnorstrom.com/hosting/kkrieger-beta.zip http://data.chrisnorstrom.com/hosting/kkrieger-beta.zip. They were probably the best group out there. Looks like they closed up show because their site theprodukt is closed for good. I knew a really good Demoscene coder, and he introduced the culture to me. He worked on synthetic procedurally generated voices (which is really hard). But the problem is that the bar to entry is extremely high because it's all algorithms and the culture is all about fun, not profit. So the community stays small. Why spend months making lights and patterns react to music in a 64kb file when you can make a 200mb game or animated and sell it. The means do not justify the ends, thus most people will never know the awesomeness of demoscene.

jimminy 14y ago
A lot of the members of .theprodukkt joined Farbrausch[1]. You can still find the productions by that team, including .kkrieger on the Farbrausch site[2]. [1] http://www.farb-rausch.de/ http://www.farb-rausch.de/ [2] http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114 http://www.farb-rausch.de/prod.py?which=114
- Centigonal 14y ago
  IIRC, .theprodukkt is/was Farbrausch's commercial "arm."'
  - jimminy 14y ago
    You're right. I just did a quick search, and didn't double check the info.
  - 14y ago

Centigonal 14y ago

Woooooooaaaah! A demoscene link appears on HN! I'm really excited that you guys seem to be interested in this! You guys should watch this movie! http://molemanfilm.com/about-moleman/about-moleman-2/ http://molemanfilm.com/about-moleman/about-moleman-2/ It's very good, and also on Youtube. It'll tell you all about the demoscene! you'll enjoy it! -mkC/3LN: The clumsiest ever Note: This post used to have a lot of redundancy inside of it, but that's gone now!

vigo 14y ago

well. there is only one thing left to be told: amiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigaaaaaaaa (::

mulytani 14y ago

I was wondering: how recruiters perceive demoers ?, in: - start-up - big companies Should you put this activity on your resume or totally hide it ?