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That sounds like a very Luddite view. Why wouldn't artists be able to use AI selectively to automate "boring" tasks (such as filling the sky of an image with cl

by dthul 3y ago

That sounds like a very Luddite view. Why wouldn't artists be able to use AI selectively to automate "boring" tasks (such as filling the sky of an image with clouds) while still retaining overall artistic control?

vouaobrasil 3y ago
I am a luddite and I agree with most luddite sentiments. Most of this generative AI is NOT about using AI for boring tasks, and have you ever even tried to draw clouds? Not easy. Everyone draws clouds differently, which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything. Moreover, AI as a societal phenomenon goes way beyond AI drawing clouds.
- dthul 3y ago
  > which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything I know exactly how hard it is to draw anything because I tried a bunch of times, and failed. I for one am happy that I can now express my creative ideas, which I couldn't do before due to missing talent / practice.
  - Riverheart 3y ago
    “I for one am happy that I can now express my creative ideas, which I couldn't do before due to missing talent / practice.” The problem here is we need to look beyond our own self interest to how this will impact other people. We don’t make a career out of art. This technology is just a novelty to us and but many others rely on it for themselves and their family and had no way of foreseeing the technology coming. They need it more than we do.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    You're free to personally be happy that you can express your creative ideas, but it is a bit absurd to expect people who did put in the effort in practicing to not see you in a negative light as someone who wants the 'benefits' without putting in the hard work of self-improvement. This is a uniquely AI related issue, as artists of all mediums can relate with each other about their struggles learning and improving their skills and ability to express themselves.
    - dthul 3y ago
      That's trying to put words in my mouth. We were talking about creative expression being taken away by AI, and I argued that artists can still retain creative expression, and that these AI tools make it possible for more people to express themselves creatively. I never said that artists should have no reason to feel unhappy about that. That's criticising a position I didn't argue.
    - Lacerda69 3y ago
      How many hours of hard work do you need to put in before you can have the "benefit" of calling yourself an artist? Tbh this sounds like gatekeeping to me.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > Most of this generative AI is NOT about using AI for boring tasks, and have you ever even tried to draw clouds? Not easy. Everyone draws clouds differently, which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything. Perlin noise on a plane, can be either in line with the camera or off at an angle. Nice effect. Very easy. I don't even count myself as a proper artist. Clouds can obviously be hard when you have a specific cloud formation in mind — but "just" a random cloud, to the standards of most who will observe it, is much easier. And of course, there are plenty of free photographs of clouds, and Photoshop has had plenty of filters — even from the days before people had broadband, let alone what people now call AI — to turn those photographs into different styles.
  - jdiff 3y ago
    > Perlin noise on a plane, can be either in line with the camera or off at an angle. This looks like trash and doesn't look like clouds. Even if you're doing procedural clouds, everyone does them differently. And a lot better than just slapping Perlin noise on a plane. Photoshop filters cannot change the bones of a cloud, and when people are illustrating clouds they're taking entirely different approaches. They're not just "this cloud, but flat" or "this cloud, but with a fuzzy diffused look." All you're doing is showcasing your own lack of knowledge on the subject while filling the arrogant techbro stereotype perfectly.
gyy52380 3y ago
Because that is not what's happening. My friends that work as illustrators for PC and mobile games say it's the exact opposite. AI is used for the bulk of the creative work - composition, posing, even the general artstyle. Illustrators are then tasked with "fixing" visual artefacts, stitching together generated images and giving the final polish. They describe it as being reduced from a creative writer to a grammar checker. It's tempting to just say that creative work that can be automated this quickly should be automated so that artists can focus on more creative challenges, but this is not how it plays out in practice. Rather, this only allows companies to cut down costs. It is already extremely difficult to find work which will pay a livable wage as a creative. AI has already caused layoffs and negative wage pressure on remaining employees. The only thing that AI has done (at least among my circle of friends) is reduce corporate costs and increase antidepressant prescriptions.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  The problem with many technophiles is that they have a very distorted view of what they create. They often think it's going to do good because it's so cool but once that tech is out in the real world, it just mostly causes damage. If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me because I am starting an anti-AI coalition.
  - greatpatton 3y ago
    Out of curiosity can you just give me pratical example of: "it's so cool but once that tech is out in the real world, it just mostly causes damage."
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      Well: (1) AI has already been used for IDENTIY THEFT in many places. Check this out: https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-scam-voice-clone-fake-kidnap-call-mother-money-ransom-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-scam-voice-clone-fake-kid... AI here to clone a voice was used to make a mother think her daughter had been kidnapped (2) People getting fired from their jobs such as illustrators because AI can now do things. Also, people NOT getting hired when they could. (3) I am a professional writer, and I know of some websites who are using generative AI for articles and hiring less (or even firing writers) (4) AI removes what remaining reliance we have on each other and makes it less likely for people to talk to each other when needing some basic information. The societal effects of destroying communities where people need each other are pretty clear.
__loam 3y ago
Stop using a group of people who was slandered and murdered by ultra wealthy factory owners as a derogatory term.

by dthul 3y ago

vouaobrasil 3y ago

I am a luddite and I agree with most luddite sentiments. Most of this generative AI is NOT about using AI for boring tasks, and have you ever even tried to draw clouds? Not easy. Everyone draws clouds differently, which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything. Moreover, AI as a societal phenomenon goes way beyond AI drawing clouds.

dthul 3y ago
> which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything I know exactly how hard it is to draw anything because I tried a bunch of times, and failed. I for one am happy that I can now express my creative ideas, which I couldn't do before due to missing talent / practice.
- Riverheart 3y ago
  “I for one am happy that I can now express my creative ideas, which I couldn't do before due to missing talent / practice.” The problem here is we need to look beyond our own self interest to how this will impact other people. We don’t make a career out of art. This technology is just a novelty to us and but many others rely on it for themselves and their family and had no way of foreseeing the technology coming. They need it more than we do.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  You're free to personally be happy that you can express your creative ideas, but it is a bit absurd to expect people who did put in the effort in practicing to not see you in a negative light as someone who wants the 'benefits' without putting in the hard work of self-improvement. This is a uniquely AI related issue, as artists of all mediums can relate with each other about their struggles learning and improving their skills and ability to express themselves.
  - dthul 3y ago
    That's trying to put words in my mouth. We were talking about creative expression being taken away by AI, and I argued that artists can still retain creative expression, and that these AI tools make it possible for more people to express themselves creatively. I never said that artists should have no reason to feel unhappy about that. That's criticising a position I didn't argue.
  - Lacerda69 3y ago
    How many hours of hard work do you need to put in before you can have the "benefit" of calling yourself an artist? Tbh this sounds like gatekeeping to me.
ben_w 3y ago
> Most of this generative AI is NOT about using AI for boring tasks, and have you ever even tried to draw clouds? Not easy. Everyone draws clouds differently, which you would know if you ever tried to draw anything. Perlin noise on a plane, can be either in line with the camera or off at an angle. Nice effect. Very easy. I don't even count myself as a proper artist. Clouds can obviously be hard when you have a specific cloud formation in mind — but "just" a random cloud, to the standards of most who will observe it, is much easier. And of course, there are plenty of free photographs of clouds, and Photoshop has had plenty of filters — even from the days before people had broadband, let alone what people now call AI — to turn those photographs into different styles.
- jdiff 3y ago
  > Perlin noise on a plane, can be either in line with the camera or off at an angle. This looks like trash and doesn't look like clouds. Even if you're doing procedural clouds, everyone does them differently. And a lot better than just slapping Perlin noise on a plane. Photoshop filters cannot change the bones of a cloud, and when people are illustrating clouds they're taking entirely different approaches. They're not just "this cloud, but flat" or "this cloud, but with a fuzzy diffused look." All you're doing is showcasing your own lack of knowledge on the subject while filling the arrogant techbro stereotype perfectly.

gyy52380 3y ago

Because that is not what's happening. My friends that work as illustrators for PC and mobile games say it's the exact opposite. AI is used for the bulk of the creative work - composition, posing, even the general artstyle. Illustrators are then tasked with "fixing" visual artefacts, stitching together generated images and giving the final polish. They describe it as being reduced from a creative writer to a grammar checker. It's tempting to just say that creative work that can be automated this quickly should be automated so that artists can focus on more creative challenges, but this is not how it plays out in practice. Rather, this only allows companies to cut down costs. It is already extremely difficult to find work which will pay a livable wage as a creative. AI has already caused layoffs and negative wage pressure on remaining employees. The only thing that AI has done (at least among my circle of friends) is reduce corporate costs and increase antidepressant prescriptions.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
The problem with many technophiles is that they have a very distorted view of what they create. They often think it's going to do good because it's so cool but once that tech is out in the real world, it just mostly causes damage. If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me because I am starting an anti-AI coalition.
- greatpatton 3y ago
  Out of curiosity can you just give me pratical example of: "it's so cool but once that tech is out in the real world, it just mostly causes damage."
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    Well: (1) AI has already been used for IDENTIY THEFT in many places. Check this out: https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-scam-voice-clone-fake-kidnap-call-mother-money-ransom-2023-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-scam-voice-clone-fake-kid... AI here to clone a voice was used to make a mother think her daughter had been kidnapped (2) People getting fired from their jobs such as illustrators because AI can now do things. Also, people NOT getting hired when they could. (3) I am a professional writer, and I know of some websites who are using generative AI for articles and hiring less (or even firing writers) (4) AI removes what remaining reliance we have on each other and makes it less likely for people to talk to each other when needing some basic information. The societal effects of destroying communities where people need each other are pretty clear.

__loam 3y ago

Stop using a group of people who was slandered and murdered by ultra wealthy factory owners as a derogatory term.