9 ms·

Lenovo ThinkPad T14s G4 review: Business laptop is better with AMD Zen4

81 points by sydney6 3y ago

wbeckler 3y ago
I feel like the MacBook is the elephant in the room here
- MrRolleyes 3y ago
  MacBook doesn't have an LTE modem.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I have mixed feelings about the need for a cellular modem. I can already easily tether to either my iPhone or iPad without paying for a separate line. Also as an x86 based anything, the battery life is already going to be poor and the fan is going to make noise. Using the modem is going to make it worse. And it’s only LTE in 2023? But on the other hand, I do always buy the cellular version of iPads even though I could just as easily tether those to my phone.
    - formerly_proven 3y ago
      > Also as an x86 based anything, the battery life is already going to be poor and the fan is going to make noise. You can compare it to Apple laptops quite easily e.g. https://www.notebookcheck.net/index.php?id=127065&specs[]=341901&specs[]=330139 https://www.notebookcheck.net/index.php?id=127065&specs[]=34...
  - throw0101c 3y ago
    What does an in-built modem give over a separate hotspot or smartphone tethering (which most people always have with them)?
    - the_third_wave 3y ago
      Autonomy - walk to the loo and your laptop continues doing it's thing instead of stalling due to the phone getting out of reach. It also makes the phone battery last a bit longer. Performance will be better as well. If you only use mobile data on the device every now and then a tethered phone is fine, if you use it all the time a built-in connection is preferable.
    - MrRolleyes 3y ago
      [dead]
    - scottapotamas 3y ago
      The ability for corporate IT to better control how their devices connect to the internet, and/or not requiring a work phone to be supplied. I've seen issued laptops coming with cellular data + persistent tunnel as the default connection method over allowing use of client/public/site WiFi networks.
JonChesterfield 3y ago
Happy to see the refresh. These APU systems are great. The alarmingly priced usb-c dock works. Three monitors around laptop, no problem. The LTE modem works out of the box on windows and works with some arguing on Linux (I built a driver from GitHub, but that's probably improved since). An not-obvious benefit of the Lenovo ones is they're on the approved list for AMD's employees, so broken stuff is pretty immediately apparent to lots of people with internal paths for reporting bugs to Lenovo.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  I love my Lenovo dock. Still itches my design scratch and is super reliable. Least reliable part is just the USB c cables as usual
  - JonChesterfield 3y ago
    I don't think I'd have bought one out of my own money. It was something like $500, rather close to the cost of a standalone computer. But it's now cable tied to the back of a monitor and the single usb cable to the laptop for power and everything else is aesthetically glorious.
    - calvinmorrison 3y ago
      hah I got it from work! Lol
- john_miller 3y ago
  What's the battery life like on linux?
  - 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
    That's gonna depend on the distro and kernel, as different ones have different drivers, different power saving things, different apps. In general all modern distros should have decent support for power saving out of the box, but things like wifi cards typically have crap/buggy drivers when it comes to power saving (but again it depends on the hardware and driver) That said, the spec sheet MobileMark benchmark says battery life is as good as 14.3 hrs in max battery setting on WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), Win 11, 52.5Wh battery, versus a performance mode getting 5.0 hrs on 2.8K OLED (non-touch), Win 11, 39.3 Wh battery. With 'local video playback' lasting longer. So I guess it's very hardware and use-case specific. (https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...)
oaiey 3y ago
Framework should be a listed contender here. Same CPU but better maintainability.
- bkovacev 3y ago
  I have two framework laptops with Intel CPU. I unfortunately would not recommend framework with Intel - they can't handle any development workload through docker without the risk of launching to the moon from the fans spinning. I hope that AMD ones are better.
  - ggpsv 3y ago
    As a counterpoint, I've had a 12-gen Framework (i7, 32GB RAM) for almost a year and half now. I use Docker on a daily basis (using Windows and WSL2) and it works fine for my development workloads. Like other Intel laptops I've had, the fans do come on occasionally but not very often. I do have some qualms about this laptop but I'm happy with it and the tradeoffs I chose.
    - bkovacev 3y ago
      That's actually quite interesting - same configuration with i7 1280p and on windows and wsl2! Blah, I wish I knew what you were doing differently. The moment that Chrome, Slack, Docker and PyCharm are up and running, it gets quite loud :(
      - millzlane 3y ago
        Not meaning to sound condescending, I explain to users that the cooling systems are much like cars. At idle the fans may turn on then turn off. But when you're driving on the highway or racetrack or even stop and go traffic, those fans are always on. >The moment that Chrome, Slack, Docker and PyCharm are up and running, it gets quite loud :( It sounds like you're at least cruising on the highway. Not to mention, you may be experiencing other bugs, either with the software or OS. Maybe try toggling windows defender and see if the issue persists. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-293604/IntelliJ-is-slow-hanging-when-working-with-WSL-filesystem https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-293604/IntelliJ-is...
_a_a_a_ 3y ago
> but the device failed to win us over in terms of multi-core performance If a dev machine I'd get it, but biz users are email and a few small spreadsheets. I don't get why biz users need multicore anything.
- JonChesterfield 3y ago
  Honestly the 8core ~15W things are alright for dev work. It seems to be game for giving all the power budget to one core. Runs a badly configured Emacs with misc c++ parsing nonsense without trouble, and I build llvm on one every few months without too much irritation.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    I said biz not dev
- caskstrength 3y ago
  > I don't get why biz users need multicore anything. To run crapware/spyware installed by their corporate IT, of course! And I'm only half kidding since I distinctly remember how I couldn't even listen to Youtube Music without stuttering on my corporate Lenovo laptop on my previous job.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  In that case, why would biz users ever want this over a quieter, cooler, MacBook with better battery life since Office is available for Mac?
- mschaef 3y ago
  > biz users are email and a few small spreadsheets. I don't get why biz users need multicore anything. That's a fairly narrow view of what a business user might do. The spreadsheets aren't necessarily small, there's usually a messaging tool or two open, and several web browsers open to line of business apps, etc. (This is before even considering OS overhead and the like.)
- terminous 3y ago
tivert 3y ago
Glad to see it has a 16:10 screen. 16:9 is a curse.
- dmbche 3y ago
  How come? Most video being 16:9 means you useball of the screen you have, 16:10 adds bars on one side doesn't it?
  - tivert 3y ago
    > How come? Most video being 16:9 means you useball of the screen you have, 16:10 adds bars on one side doesn't it? Do you use your laptop to work, or just watch video all the time? Because if you actually do work, 16:10 or 3:2 is much better.
    - scrlk 3y ago
      It's a shame that 3:2 is still relatively rare to find in laptops and external displays.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      I'm not writing code, but I edit video and write text on a 16:9 and have never thought that the screen format had anything to do with anything else than video crops. What do you get out of 16:10 for "working"?
      - walthamstow 3y ago
        It's longer, so there is more of the thing visible on the screen. More lines of an article you're reading, more lines of the document you are writing.
      - jwells89 3y ago
        It’s less of an issue with larger screens, but with small screens 16:9 gets vertically cramped really easily with all of the taskbars, menubars, toolbars, status bars, titlebars, etc eating up that space like candy. Open up an IDE like IntelliJ or Visual Studio (not Code, full fat VS) on a 13” 16:9 screen and this problem becomes immediately evident. Most devs would probably prefer an ever taller aspect ratio than 16:10 but laptops with those screens that fit other needs are hard to come by. It’s one of the reasons why I think the notch was actually a net positive on MacBooks: Apple added a strip of vertical pixels to 16:10 which acts as a “nook” for the menubar and notch to live in, making it effectively taller than 16:10.
soziawa 3y ago
Can you put linux on one of these without any issues?
- tlhunter 3y ago
  My AMD gen2 works like a dream
- jefc1111 3y ago
  I run Manjaro Linux with i3wm on a T14s gen3. I connect to two 2560x1440 external monitors via thunderbolt 3 dock. I wish I could say it is 100% stable. It's close, and close enough for me to rely on it. Occasionally when I plug in to the dock the external monitors do not activate. Also if I plug in power while suspended, it powers on. I have face unlock working, which is nice. I have problems with connecting my Samsung bluetooth earbuds, but I haven't tried very hard to make that work well. Idles at around 5 watts, which is nice. Real world use is around 6-8 hours battery, which is just about good enough for me. I had an X1 Extreme gen 3 before and it was the battery life that made me change. Before that a P51s which I do miss because of the clunky docking station and numeric keypad. It was too heavy though, and battery only just ok, even with two batteries including extended at the rear.
- pizza234 3y ago
  Shortly. T14s Gen 4 AMD are certified (you can check on the Canonical website), but (from official sourcec) Lenovo hasn't made available (due to internal testing) the Linux image yet. How the image relates to upstream... I have no idea.
Aardwolf 3y ago
Does anyone know if it's possible to buy thinkpads with a US keyboard layout in Europe? Any thinkpad with a layout that's not the non-qwerty local variant of my country takes more than 6 weeks to deliver, and that is to get UK layout, not the US layout with different enter key, which I can't even find available at all
- mikeweiss 3y ago
  eBay
- fweimer 3y ago
  Isn't the English (EU) layout close enough? I think it's basically the US layout with a Euro sign somewhere, but the physical key layout should be the same as a regular US keyboard.
  - j7ake 3y ago
    Definitely not close enough for a programmer who uses symbols and touch typing. For starters the return key are different widths, which is a deal breaker if you’re a touchtyper used to wider return keys. Programming also uses tilde and other symbols that are different between the two. Overall they’re similar for typing alphabets, but symbols and enter key are different.
    - the_third_wave 3y ago
      Just map the character set you want to the keyboard and start using it. It'll take some getting used to but if you're a touch typist it mostly comes natural. Living in Sweden, using a P50 with a UK layout which I switch between US-intl and Swedish layouts there isn't always that much relation between what's on the keys and what appears on the screen but by now I'm used to it. As a bonus it makes shoulder surfing passwords an exercise in futility...
      - guappa 3y ago
        His problem I think is that in europe we have the enter key using 2 rows, and in USA it uses 1 row only. So probably he hits what on my keyboard is "ù" when he wants to enter. I own a laptop with a USA keyboard and I dislike that, because no amount of mapping can change the fact that USA layout has 1 key less.
m1ckey 3y ago
I would love to have a SD/microSD card reader option, then I would not need any dongle. Is anybody aware if you can repurpose the smart card reader slot on the T14 or T14s?
jpalomaki 3y ago
Nice that the sustained performance is much better than with the Intel model. The i7-1355U version takes pretty big hit, starting from 1500 units going quickly down to 1000. Probably due to thermal throttling.
ndiddy 3y ago
Frustrating that the laptop has 8 GB of RAM soldered, it means that no matter how much RAM you put in it, you'll only get 16 GB in dual channel.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  According to the spec sheet, they come in models up to 32GB soldered: https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...
  - ndiddy 3y ago
    I'm sorry, I had the T14 up on Lenovo's site, not the T14s. It looks like the T14s has no RAM sockets, and they only sell it with 16 GB of soldered RAM (unless there's a way to special order it or something). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t14s-gen-4-(14-inch-amd)/len101t0080 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
    - pella 3y ago
      in Europe - you can by 32GB version from the shops. https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-g4-amd-deep-black-21f8002tge-a3018279.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-g4-amd-deep-black-2...
- pella 3y ago
  this is 32GB soldered : LPDDR5x-6400, Dual-Channel, onboard
- aitchnyu 3y ago
  What are the workloads that become worse with unequal ram modules?
  - Const-me 3y ago
    Examples include gaming using the integrated GPU and using software like whisper.cpp / llama.cpp. They both handle gigabytes of data, and typically bottlenecked with memory throughput.
WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
Thinkpad shill here. Before buying Thinkpads, I recommend a quick search of threads about existing units (and immediate predecessors) for overheating issues. Lenovo prioritizes performance (good!) but in the past has overestimated the cooling/manufacture. Lenovo learns tho; the trend is that issue-y lines are followed by stable lines. ex:Some early X1 gens had a small % with issues and later were fine. ex:We just redid the thermal compound on a 2yo P15 this week (thermal shutdowns). Ours seemed to be an outlier and was clean + lightly used. Lenovo absolutely honors warranties tho and will even allow purchasing an extended after expiration (tho w/ a 30day 'cooling' period).
ww520 3y ago
The last AMD based Thinkpad T14 I got was horrible. It had great numbers on paper and benchmarks, but horrible performance in real usage. Switching between programs was very slow. Even switching between tabs in browser was slow. It tended to overheat which throttled down the cpu. It had really bad idle power management for background tasks. This had never happened before on any older T14’s with Intel cpu. I won’t get another laptop with AMD again.
- Justin_K 3y ago
  I had the same problems with Lenovo Intel chips. Constantly getting thermally throttled. Switched to Dell and couldn't be happier.
  - guappa 3y ago
    I hate dells. Not being able to open the screen that much was a major annoyance. I actually refused a new dell to remain with an older thinkpad just because how uncomfortable they are.
    - voidmain0001 3y ago
      Agreed. I prefer the 180 degree hinge provided on the ThinkPad line up.
- leononame 3y ago
  I thought I was the only one. I was excited to get a Thinkpad because just about every nerd praises them all the time and I thought the AMD one would be a great experience, but it was terribly slow. Additionally, the trackpad, the screen and the camera broke independently of each other and needed to be replaced which makes me really doubt the build quality (though having a technician come to your home tk repair it is great). All in all, it was a bad experience and didn't even last 2 years for me. I don't think I'll be buying another Thinkpad soon.
  - cptnapalm 3y ago
magnio 3y ago
TLDR (though do try to read the review: Notebookcheck is one of the most trustworthy and methodical tech review sites) The main competitors here is the HP EliteBook 845 G10 and the MacBook Pro 14 M2 Pro. - Design: classic ThinkPad look, a bit brutalist. Lighter than MacBook Pro 14 since it uses carbon fiber instead of metal. - Networking, keyboard: great - Display: 16:10 Full HD IPS, 400 nits with very good contrast ratio 1800:1, though the MacBook Pro and laptop with OLED screens will still have the edge here - Performance: Ryzen 7 7840U is currently the flagship low-power laptop CPU from AMD. Comparable to the i7-1370P and the M2 Pro 12-core, especially in terms of multi-core and efficiency. It completely slaughters any U-variant from Intel. The iGPU Radeon 780M is currently the fastest iGPU in the x86 world, leading Intel's Iris Xe Graphics G7 by around 50% in most games and tests. - Emission: fan noise and heat are no issue, around the same as MacBook Pro 14. - Battery: same as MacBook Pro 14, i.e., really good. In short, a true Windows alternative to the MacBook Pro. The main factor for this is the stellar Ryzen 7 7840U and its Radeon 780M. Ever since it appears in Windows handheld gaming consoles, it has shown to be a capable balance between performance and power consumption, asymptomatic to the M2 Pro. The only problem is AMD not making it available widely enough, with laptop options trickling down quite slowly compared to Intel. (There was rumor laptop makers have to restrict the use of the 7840U since its iGPU means a cut to their gaming segment.) I used a ThinkPad X1 Carbon G9 before, and while it's great, the Intel CPU really handicapped it. Now I'm on a MacBook Air M1, but damn the Windows offerings are more and more attractive now (thanks to macOS ruining an otherwise good laptop).
gramakri2 3y ago
Seems like I lost access to my old account, so had to create a new one. I just bought this a couple of days ago. I went with the ryzen, OLED version and 32GB RAM. I ordered without an OS and run Ubuntu on it. The decision was between T14 , the carbon x1 and the framework. My previous laptop was a x1 gen 3. The laptop hinge broke :/ I absolute love this machine. Impressions so far: * Ubuntu 23.04 and Gnome runs so good that we even setup a donation on behalf of our company to the Gnome foundation. Ubuntu 22 will keep locking up. * Everything works - camera, video recording, qualcomm wifi, all function keys etc. Even fingerprint login works! * Gnome tweak tool is your friend. Especially to adjust those font sizes. I switched to noto from the default ubuntu. * Keyboard is great but x1 carbon is still the best :-) * Maybe my eyesight is failing me but I find no great difference between the FHD of x1 carbon gen 3 and OLED with 3 times more resolution. * Batter is like 5 hours of so when I am working full time. I suspect OLED has something to do with this low battery life. * Love that the camera has a physical switch Some other tips: * When you order be sure to not order the computer vision camera. This doesn't work on linux and there is a post on LKML saying it won't work for the next 2 years atleast. * I am based in berlin, so ordered from Germany. You can order the "Beleuchtete Tastatur, schwarz – Englisch (EU)" keyboard for the US keyboard. Only practical change is euro sign instead of dollar in number 4 key. * In the penultimate order screen, lenovo will sneak in a support option. But there's actually a basic support option which will save you some money. I think only difference is you might have to mail in your laptop for fixes, not sure. AMA.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  What kind of programs do you use? I can get ~20 hours on a zenbook flip with OLED, because I use mostly terminal programs (black background, so most of the pixels are off). Have you tried running powertop for a bit? It would be interesting to see if the screen was consuming most of the power, or if the draw can be attributed to a particular device (maybe it is something useless like a Bluetooth radio that you can shut off!) I wonder, if you can’t see the difference, maybe try halving the screen resolution? No reason to render all those extra pixels if you don’t need them, right? Plus, I guess it is rare in 2023, but any UI elements that are badly coded and not scalable would be sort of “normal sized.”
wutwutwat 3y ago
Rocking a dual core thinkpad x270 running macOS ventura and it's not bad, though a bit slow. Thinkpad's have lasting value
chx 3y ago
Note my writeup re TB4 vs USB4 in ThinkPads (and in general PCs): there's no difference in practice. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/16mpz2q/on_usb4_vs_thunderbolt_4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/16mpz2q/on_usb4_v...
aitchnyu 3y ago
Tangential, what are the options for an AMD to drive a 5k screen? I chose an Intel laptop and then Mac with Thunderbolt. Seems AMD laptops with Thunderbolt are rare but exist, and upcoming USB standards could drive 5k.
- dhruvdh 3y ago
  These AMD chips support DP2.1, USB4 which should do 8K60Hz HDR. That is what you should look for instead of thunderbolt.
coin 3y ago
The trackpad looks off center

81 points by sydney6 3y ago

wbeckler 3y ago

I feel like the MacBook is the elephant in the room here

MrRolleyes 3y ago
MacBook doesn't have an LTE modem.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I have mixed feelings about the need for a cellular modem. I can already easily tether to either my iPhone or iPad without paying for a separate line. Also as an x86 based anything, the battery life is already going to be poor and the fan is going to make noise. Using the modem is going to make it worse. And it’s only LTE in 2023? But on the other hand, I do always buy the cellular version of iPads even though I could just as easily tether those to my phone.
  - formerly_proven 3y ago
    > Also as an x86 based anything, the battery life is already going to be poor and the fan is going to make noise. You can compare it to Apple laptops quite easily e.g. https://www.notebookcheck.net/index.php?id=127065&specs[]=341901&specs[]=330139 https://www.notebookcheck.net/index.php?id=127065&specs[]=34...
- throw0101c 3y ago
  What does an in-built modem give over a separate hotspot or smartphone tethering (which most people always have with them)?
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    Autonomy - walk to the loo and your laptop continues doing it's thing instead of stalling due to the phone getting out of reach. It also makes the phone battery last a bit longer. Performance will be better as well. If you only use mobile data on the device every now and then a tethered phone is fine, if you use it all the time a built-in connection is preferable.
  - MrRolleyes 3y ago
    [dead]
  - scottapotamas 3y ago
    The ability for corporate IT to better control how their devices connect to the internet, and/or not requiring a work phone to be supplied. I've seen issued laptops coming with cellular data + persistent tunnel as the default connection method over allowing use of client/public/site WiFi networks.

JonChesterfield 3y ago

Happy to see the refresh. These APU systems are great. The alarmingly priced usb-c dock works. Three monitors around laptop, no problem. The LTE modem works out of the box on windows and works with some arguing on Linux (I built a driver from GitHub, but that's probably improved since). An not-obvious benefit of the Lenovo ones is they're on the approved list for AMD's employees, so broken stuff is pretty immediately apparent to lots of people with internal paths for reporting bugs to Lenovo.

calvinmorrison 3y ago
I love my Lenovo dock. Still itches my design scratch and is super reliable. Least reliable part is just the USB c cables as usual
- JonChesterfield 3y ago
  I don't think I'd have bought one out of my own money. It was something like $500, rather close to the cost of a standalone computer. But it's now cable tied to the back of a monitor and the single usb cable to the laptop for power and everything else is aesthetically glorious.
  - calvinmorrison 3y ago
    hah I got it from work! Lol
john_miller 3y ago
What's the battery life like on linux?
- 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  That's gonna depend on the distro and kernel, as different ones have different drivers, different power saving things, different apps. In general all modern distros should have decent support for power saving out of the box, but things like wifi cards typically have crap/buggy drivers when it comes to power saving (but again it depends on the hardware and driver) That said, the spec sheet MobileMark benchmark says battery life is as good as 14.3 hrs in max battery setting on WUXGA Low Power (non-touch), Win 11, 52.5Wh battery, versus a performance mode getting 5.0 hrs on 2.8K OLED (non-touch), Win 11, 39.3 Wh battery. With 'local video playback' lasting longer. So I guess it's very hardware and use-case specific. (https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...)

oaiey 3y ago

Framework should be a listed contender here. Same CPU but better maintainability.

bkovacev 3y ago
I have two framework laptops with Intel CPU. I unfortunately would not recommend framework with Intel - they can't handle any development workload through docker without the risk of launching to the moon from the fans spinning. I hope that AMD ones are better.
- ggpsv 3y ago
  As a counterpoint, I've had a 12-gen Framework (i7, 32GB RAM) for almost a year and half now. I use Docker on a daily basis (using Windows and WSL2) and it works fine for my development workloads. Like other Intel laptops I've had, the fans do come on occasionally but not very often. I do have some qualms about this laptop but I'm happy with it and the tradeoffs I chose.
  - bkovacev 3y ago
    That's actually quite interesting - same configuration with i7 1280p and on windows and wsl2! Blah, I wish I knew what you were doing differently. The moment that Chrome, Slack, Docker and PyCharm are up and running, it gets quite loud :(
    - millzlane 3y ago
      Not meaning to sound condescending, I explain to users that the cooling systems are much like cars. At idle the fans may turn on then turn off. But when you're driving on the highway or racetrack or even stop and go traffic, those fans are always on. >The moment that Chrome, Slack, Docker and PyCharm are up and running, it gets quite loud :( It sounds like you're at least cruising on the highway. Not to mention, you may be experiencing other bugs, either with the software or OS. Maybe try toggling windows defender and see if the issue persists. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-293604/IntelliJ-is-slow-hanging-when-working-with-WSL-filesystem https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-293604/IntelliJ-is...

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

> but the device failed to win us over in terms of multi-core performance If a dev machine I'd get it, but biz users are email and a few small spreadsheets. I don't get why biz users need multicore anything.

JonChesterfield 3y ago
Honestly the 8core ~15W things are alright for dev work. It seems to be game for giving all the power budget to one core. Runs a badly configured Emacs with misc c++ parsing nonsense without trouble, and I build llvm on one every few months without too much irritation.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  I said biz not dev
caskstrength 3y ago
> I don't get why biz users need multicore anything. To run crapware/spyware installed by their corporate IT, of course! And I'm only half kidding since I distinctly remember how I couldn't even listen to Youtube Music without stuttering on my corporate Lenovo laptop on my previous job.
scarface_74 3y ago
In that case, why would biz users ever want this over a quieter, cooler, MacBook with better battery life since Office is available for Mac?
mschaef 3y ago
> biz users are email and a few small spreadsheets. I don't get why biz users need multicore anything. That's a fairly narrow view of what a business user might do. The spreadsheets aren't necessarily small, there's usually a messaging tool or two open, and several web browsers open to line of business apps, etc. (This is before even considering OS overhead and the like.)
terminous 3y ago

tivert 3y ago

Glad to see it has a 16:10 screen. 16:9 is a curse.

dmbche 3y ago
How come? Most video being 16:9 means you useball of the screen you have, 16:10 adds bars on one side doesn't it?
- tivert 3y ago
  > How come? Most video being 16:9 means you useball of the screen you have, 16:10 adds bars on one side doesn't it? Do you use your laptop to work, or just watch video all the time? Because if you actually do work, 16:10 or 3:2 is much better.
  - scrlk 3y ago
    It's a shame that 3:2 is still relatively rare to find in laptops and external displays.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    I'm not writing code, but I edit video and write text on a 16:9 and have never thought that the screen format had anything to do with anything else than video crops. What do you get out of 16:10 for "working"?
    - walthamstow 3y ago
      It's longer, so there is more of the thing visible on the screen. More lines of an article you're reading, more lines of the document you are writing.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      It’s less of an issue with larger screens, but with small screens 16:9 gets vertically cramped really easily with all of the taskbars, menubars, toolbars, status bars, titlebars, etc eating up that space like candy. Open up an IDE like IntelliJ or Visual Studio (not Code, full fat VS) on a 13” 16:9 screen and this problem becomes immediately evident. Most devs would probably prefer an ever taller aspect ratio than 16:10 but laptops with those screens that fit other needs are hard to come by. It’s one of the reasons why I think the notch was actually a net positive on MacBooks: Apple added a strip of vertical pixels to 16:10 which acts as a “nook” for the menubar and notch to live in, making it effectively taller than 16:10.

soziawa 3y ago

Can you put linux on one of these without any issues?

tlhunter 3y ago
My AMD gen2 works like a dream
jefc1111 3y ago
I run Manjaro Linux with i3wm on a T14s gen3. I connect to two 2560x1440 external monitors via thunderbolt 3 dock. I wish I could say it is 100% stable. It's close, and close enough for me to rely on it. Occasionally when I plug in to the dock the external monitors do not activate. Also if I plug in power while suspended, it powers on. I have face unlock working, which is nice. I have problems with connecting my Samsung bluetooth earbuds, but I haven't tried very hard to make that work well. Idles at around 5 watts, which is nice. Real world use is around 6-8 hours battery, which is just about good enough for me. I had an X1 Extreme gen 3 before and it was the battery life that made me change. Before that a P51s which I do miss because of the clunky docking station and numeric keypad. It was too heavy though, and battery only just ok, even with two batteries including extended at the rear.
pizza234 3y ago
Shortly. T14s Gen 4 AMD are certified (you can check on the Canonical website), but (from official sourcec) Lenovo hasn't made available (due to internal testing) the Linux image yet. How the image relates to upstream... I have no idea.

Aardwolf 3y ago

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy thinkpads with a US keyboard layout in Europe? Any thinkpad with a layout that's not the non-qwerty local variant of my country takes more than 6 weeks to deliver, and that is to get UK layout, not the US layout with different enter key, which I can't even find available at all

mikeweiss 3y ago
eBay
fweimer 3y ago
Isn't the English (EU) layout close enough? I think it's basically the US layout with a Euro sign somewhere, but the physical key layout should be the same as a regular US keyboard.
- j7ake 3y ago
  Definitely not close enough for a programmer who uses symbols and touch typing. For starters the return key are different widths, which is a deal breaker if you’re a touchtyper used to wider return keys. Programming also uses tilde and other symbols that are different between the two. Overall they’re similar for typing alphabets, but symbols and enter key are different.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    Just map the character set you want to the keyboard and start using it. It'll take some getting used to but if you're a touch typist it mostly comes natural. Living in Sweden, using a P50 with a UK layout which I switch between US-intl and Swedish layouts there isn't always that much relation between what's on the keys and what appears on the screen but by now I'm used to it. As a bonus it makes shoulder surfing passwords an exercise in futility...
    - guappa 3y ago
      His problem I think is that in europe we have the enter key using 2 rows, and in USA it uses 1 row only. So probably he hits what on my keyboard is "ù" when he wants to enter. I own a laptop with a USA keyboard and I dislike that, because no amount of mapping can change the fact that USA layout has 1 key less.

m1ckey 3y ago

I would love to have a SD/microSD card reader option, then I would not need any dongle. Is anybody aware if you can repurpose the smart card reader slot on the T14 or T14s?

jpalomaki 3y ago

Nice that the sustained performance is much better than with the Intel model. The i7-1355U version takes pretty big hit, starting from 1500 units going quickly down to 1000. Probably due to thermal throttling.

ndiddy 3y ago

Frustrating that the laptop has 8 GB of RAM soldered, it means that no matter how much RAM you put in it, you'll only get 16 GB in dual channel.

0xbadcafebee 3y ago
According to the spec sheet, they come in models up to 32GB soldered: https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD/ThinkPad_T14_Gen_4_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...
- ndiddy 3y ago
  I'm sorry, I had the T14 up on Lenovo's site, not the T14s. It looks like the T14s has no RAM sockets, and they only sell it with 16 GB of soldered RAM (unless there's a way to special order it or something). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/thinkpad-t14s-gen-4-(14-inch-amd)/len101t0080 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
  - pella 3y ago
    in Europe - you can by 32GB version from the shops. https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-g4-amd-deep-black-21f8002tge-a3018279.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-g4-amd-deep-black-2...
pella 3y ago
this is 32GB soldered : LPDDR5x-6400, Dual-Channel, onboard
aitchnyu 3y ago
What are the workloads that become worse with unequal ram modules?
- Const-me 3y ago
  Examples include gaming using the integrated GPU and using software like whisper.cpp / llama.cpp. They both handle gigabytes of data, and typically bottlenecked with memory throughput.

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago

Thinkpad shill here. Before buying Thinkpads, I recommend a quick search of threads about existing units (and immediate predecessors) for overheating issues. Lenovo prioritizes performance (good!) but in the past has overestimated the cooling/manufacture. Lenovo learns tho; the trend is that issue-y lines are followed by stable lines. ex:Some early X1 gens had a small % with issues and later were fine. ex:We just redid the thermal compound on a 2yo P15 this week (thermal shutdowns). Ours seemed to be an outlier and was clean + lightly used. Lenovo absolutely honors warranties tho and will even allow purchasing an extended after expiration (tho w/ a 30day 'cooling' period).

ww520 3y ago

The last AMD based Thinkpad T14 I got was horrible. It had great numbers on paper and benchmarks, but horrible performance in real usage. Switching between programs was very slow. Even switching between tabs in browser was slow. It tended to overheat which throttled down the cpu. It had really bad idle power management for background tasks. This had never happened before on any older T14’s with Intel cpu. I won’t get another laptop with AMD again.

Justin_K 3y ago
I had the same problems with Lenovo Intel chips. Constantly getting thermally throttled. Switched to Dell and couldn't be happier.
- guappa 3y ago
  I hate dells. Not being able to open the screen that much was a major annoyance. I actually refused a new dell to remain with an older thinkpad just because how uncomfortable they are.
  - voidmain0001 3y ago
    Agreed. I prefer the 180 degree hinge provided on the ThinkPad line up.
leononame 3y ago
I thought I was the only one. I was excited to get a Thinkpad because just about every nerd praises them all the time and I thought the AMD one would be a great experience, but it was terribly slow. Additionally, the trackpad, the screen and the camera broke independently of each other and needed to be replaced which makes me really doubt the build quality (though having a technician come to your home tk repair it is great). All in all, it was a bad experience and didn't even last 2 years for me. I don't think I'll be buying another Thinkpad soon.
- cptnapalm 3y ago

magnio 3y ago

TLDR (though do try to read the review: Notebookcheck is one of the most trustworthy and methodical tech review sites) The main competitors here is the HP EliteBook 845 G10 and the MacBook Pro 14 M2 Pro. - Design: classic ThinkPad look, a bit brutalist. Lighter than MacBook Pro 14 since it uses carbon fiber instead of metal. - Networking, keyboard: great - Display: 16:10 Full HD IPS, 400 nits with very good contrast ratio 1800:1, though the MacBook Pro and laptop with OLED screens will still have the edge here - Performance: Ryzen 7 7840U is currently the flagship low-power laptop CPU from AMD. Comparable to the i7-1370P and the M2 Pro 12-core, especially in terms of multi-core and efficiency. It completely slaughters any U-variant from Intel. The iGPU Radeon 780M is currently the fastest iGPU in the x86 world, leading Intel's Iris Xe Graphics G7 by around 50% in most games and tests. - Emission: fan noise and heat are no issue, around the same as MacBook Pro 14. - Battery: same as MacBook Pro 14, i.e., really good. In short, a true Windows alternative to the MacBook Pro. The main factor for this is the stellar Ryzen 7 7840U and its Radeon 780M. Ever since it appears in Windows handheld gaming consoles, it has shown to be a capable balance between performance and power consumption, asymptomatic to the M2 Pro. The only problem is AMD not making it available widely enough, with laptop options trickling down quite slowly compared to Intel. (There was rumor laptop makers have to restrict the use of the 7840U since its iGPU means a cut to their gaming segment.) I used a ThinkPad X1 Carbon G9 before, and while it's great, the Intel CPU really handicapped it. Now I'm on a MacBook Air M1, but damn the Windows offerings are more and more attractive now (thanks to macOS ruining an otherwise good laptop).

gramakri2 3y ago

Seems like I lost access to my old account, so had to create a new one. I just bought this a couple of days ago. I went with the ryzen, OLED version and 32GB RAM. I ordered without an OS and run Ubuntu on it. The decision was between T14 , the carbon x1 and the framework. My previous laptop was a x1 gen 3. The laptop hinge broke :/ I absolute love this machine. Impressions so far: * Ubuntu 23.04 and Gnome runs so good that we even setup a donation on behalf of our company to the Gnome foundation. Ubuntu 22 will keep locking up. * Everything works - camera, video recording, qualcomm wifi, all function keys etc. Even fingerprint login works! * Gnome tweak tool is your friend. Especially to adjust those font sizes. I switched to noto from the default ubuntu. * Keyboard is great but x1 carbon is still the best :-) * Maybe my eyesight is failing me but I find no great difference between the FHD of x1 carbon gen 3 and OLED with 3 times more resolution. * Batter is like 5 hours of so when I am working full time. I suspect OLED has something to do with this low battery life. * Love that the camera has a physical switch Some other tips: * When you order be sure to not order the computer vision camera. This doesn't work on linux and there is a post on LKML saying it won't work for the next 2 years atleast. * I am based in berlin, so ordered from Germany. You can order the "Beleuchtete Tastatur, schwarz – Englisch (EU)" keyboard for the US keyboard. Only practical change is euro sign instead of dollar in number 4 key. * In the penultimate order screen, lenovo will sneak in a support option. But there's actually a basic support option which will save you some money. I think only difference is you might have to mail in your laptop for fixes, not sure. AMA.

bee_rider 3y ago
What kind of programs do you use? I can get ~20 hours on a zenbook flip with OLED, because I use mostly terminal programs (black background, so most of the pixels are off). Have you tried running powertop for a bit? It would be interesting to see if the screen was consuming most of the power, or if the draw can be attributed to a particular device (maybe it is something useless like a Bluetooth radio that you can shut off!) I wonder, if you can’t see the difference, maybe try halving the screen resolution? No reason to render all those extra pixels if you don’t need them, right? Plus, I guess it is rare in 2023, but any UI elements that are badly coded and not scalable would be sort of “normal sized.”

wutwutwat 3y ago

Rocking a dual core thinkpad x270 running macOS ventura and it's not bad, though a bit slow. Thinkpad's have lasting value

chx 3y ago

Note my writeup re TB4 vs USB4 in ThinkPads (and in general PCs): there's no difference in practice. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/16mpz2q/on_usb4_vs_thunderbolt_4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/16mpz2q/on_usb4_v...

aitchnyu 3y ago

Tangential, what are the options for an AMD to drive a 5k screen? I chose an Intel laptop and then Mac with Thunderbolt. Seems AMD laptops with Thunderbolt are rare but exist, and upcoming USB standards could drive 5k.

dhruvdh 3y ago
These AMD chips support DP2.1, USB4 which should do 8K60Hz HDR. That is what you should look for instead of thunderbolt.

coin 3y ago

The trackpad looks off center