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> My gut is that the majority of hydrogen proponents are oil and gas lobbyists or funded by them I don't understand how any one looks at the electric car charg

> My gut is that the majority of hydrogen proponents are oil and gas lobbyists or funded by them I don't understand how any one looks at the electric car charging situation and thinks it makes sense to scale that out to 100% of vehicles. A 2 hour wait to get a charger spot isn't a workable transport system.

marssaxman 3y ago
The future is public transport.
- troupe 3y ago
  The decline in passenger trains seems to indicate that future is headed in the other direction.
- jryle70 3y ago
  Did you know that car ownership has kept increasing in the Netherlands, at least until a few years ago? The country renown for cycling and public transportation. From 197 cars per 1000 people in 1970 we've grown to 662 in 2019. i.e. we now have more than three times the number of cars per person even compared with the "bad old days" of the car dominated 1970s ... The simple fact is that Dutch car use has grown continuously for 70 years much as it has in every other nation I love train, but let's not pretend that public transportation will be dominant. Rather, it will be a mix of different modes of transport. Cars will continue to be important. Visit the Netherlands and see for yourself. https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...
wongarsu 3y ago
The envisioned car charging situation is that you charge your car at home or at work. Cars sit unused 99% of the time, they can use that time charging without issues. What we are experiencing now is transitional, where people use infrastructure intended for road-trips for their daily needs. That phase will pass
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Exactly. I charge at my parking spot with around 2-2.5kW power use. With that I'll get about 100-150km of range overnight easily. I drive less than that daily, which means my car's battery is full practically all the time.
forgotusername6 3y ago
Almost all charging is done at home.
theshrike79 3y ago
Have you seen the queues for H2 stations? 2 hours is peanuts. Also: the longest wait I've had in the almost 3 years I've owned an EV has been about 15 minutes and in that case it was a couple who had clearly rented an EV and was charging it for the first time ever. The infrastructure is perfectly solvable. The US is just at a disadvantage because gasoline is practically free over there compared to the rest of the world so there isn't that much of an incentive to improve the charging infrastructure. As a reference, currently gasoline at the station near to me is $7.47/gallon, which actually pretty cheap. The most expensive price here is $9.24/gallon at the moment. Compare that to electricity, which costs 0.02c/kWh right now. That's 0,0002€/kWh. Looking at the market price it'll dip down to -0.18c/kWh in the morning hours, they're literally paying people to use electricity =)
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Even in the US it is mostly a solved problem for Tesla owners. There are a few places that are consistently problematic (eg, Las Vegas), but there are new stalls planned there to help. Several companies are in the early stages of national DCFC rollouts. It will get better quickly in a lot of places.
_ea1k 3y ago
I don't see why you'd look at a 2 hour wait somewhere and extrapolate that out as an impossible problem. Show an EV nerd a video of a 2 hour wait and they can probably tell you where it happened and maybe even when, because that is really unusual. This is a solvable problem.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
> 2 hour wait to get a charger spot isn't a workable transport system. That rules out widespread use of hydrogen, then. Hydrogen filling stations need to periodically recompress their hydrogen. Which is never a problem because current hydrogen stations are virtually always idle. However, if they were continuously busy, you'd have to wait.

marssaxman 3y ago

The future is public transport.

troupe 3y ago
The decline in passenger trains seems to indicate that future is headed in the other direction.
jryle70 3y ago
Did you know that car ownership has kept increasing in the Netherlands, at least until a few years ago? The country renown for cycling and public transportation. From 197 cars per 1000 people in 1970 we've grown to 662 in 2019. i.e. we now have more than three times the number of cars per person even compared with the "bad old days" of the car dominated 1970s ... The simple fact is that Dutch car use has grown continuously for 70 years much as it has in every other nation I love train, but let's not pretend that public transportation will be dominant. Rather, it will be a mix of different modes of transport. Cars will continue to be important. Visit the Netherlands and see for yourself. https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...

wongarsu 3y ago

The envisioned car charging situation is that you charge your car at home or at work. Cars sit unused 99% of the time, they can use that time charging without issues. What we are experiencing now is transitional, where people use infrastructure intended for road-trips for their daily needs. That phase will pass

theshrike79 3y ago
Exactly. I charge at my parking spot with around 2-2.5kW power use. With that I'll get about 100-150km of range overnight easily. I drive less than that daily, which means my car's battery is full practically all the time.

forgotusername6 3y ago

Almost all charging is done at home.

theshrike79 3y ago

Have you seen the queues for H2 stations? 2 hours is peanuts. Also: the longest wait I've had in the almost 3 years I've owned an EV has been about 15 minutes and in that case it was a couple who had clearly rented an EV and was charging it for the first time ever. The infrastructure is perfectly solvable. The US is just at a disadvantage because gasoline is practically free over there compared to the rest of the world so there isn't that much of an incentive to improve the charging infrastructure. As a reference, currently gasoline at the station near to me is $7.47/gallon, which actually pretty cheap. The most expensive price here is $9.24/gallon at the moment. Compare that to electricity, which costs 0.02c/kWh right now. That's 0,0002€/kWh. Looking at the market price it'll dip down to -0.18c/kWh in the morning hours, they're literally paying people to use electricity =)

_ea1k 3y ago
Even in the US it is mostly a solved problem for Tesla owners. There are a few places that are consistently problematic (eg, Las Vegas), but there are new stalls planned there to help. Several companies are in the early stages of national DCFC rollouts. It will get better quickly in a lot of places.

_ea1k 3y ago

I don't see why you'd look at a 2 hour wait somewhere and extrapolate that out as an impossible problem. Show an EV nerd a video of a 2 hour wait and they can probably tell you where it happened and maybe even when, because that is really unusual. This is a solvable problem.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

> 2 hour wait to get a charger spot isn't a workable transport system. That rules out widespread use of hydrogen, then. Hydrogen filling stations need to periodically recompress their hydrogen. Which is never a problem because current hydrogen stations are virtually always idle. However, if they were continuously busy, you'd have to wait.