15 ms·

CD Projekt Red devs unionise after its third round of layoffs in three months

78 points by ciceryadam 3y ago

omgwtfusb 3y ago
Interesting, seems like developers unionizing is getting popular in Europe. Is there any union for general software devs in Germany? I know workers council (Betriebsrat) is popular but that's very company-dependent.
- liquidpele 3y ago
  Game companies have notoriously been sweatshops for devs, so not surprising I guess.
- felixg3 3y ago
  I think you’d be covered under Ver.di. I worked in an IT security consulting firm and was covered
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Yes, IG Metal is active across many IT related companies, and it was already a thing when I moved here 20 years ago. Game companies and small agencies are the exception actually. If you do IT at a big German company, you will most likely be covered by union agreements, even if not being part of one.
ricardobeat 3y ago
One would expect them to be drowning in cash after the success of The Witcher, and Cyberpunk 2077, 80M+ copies sold. That’s billions of dollars in revenue. Even a headcount of 1000 at SV tech salary levels (which Poland definitely does not have) would barely make a dent. Why cut costs now?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zolbrek 3y ago
  The CEO said in July that they were overstaffed. https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-red-organizational-update/ https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-red-organ...
  - icegreentea2 3y ago
    Yes. Staring at their financial statements, it looks like revenue is down in 2023. They're probably seeing a faster taper (or smaller revenue bumps from CP fixes) in sales than expected. The wording in the statement really sounds like the typical project based employment thing. Seems like their pipeline got out of wack (maybe the CP fixes and updates?), and they're downgrading sales estimates on future projects, and suddenly you have less slack than before. Sucks. Wish the best for the devs (and their new union) and the company.
- snickerbockers 3y ago
  Witcher hasn't had a new game in almost a decade (unless you count gwent which i don't) and cyberpunk 2077 was a complete joke until the trigger OVA (and even then it's still extremely broken).
  - ricardobeat 3y ago
    Doesn't change the fact they sold over 80 million copies, you can do the math.
    - snickerbockers 3y ago
      yeah they sold 80 million copies three years ago, and now instead of being three years into developing The Next Big Thing they're struggling to catch up to where they were supposed to be in 2020. You don't need a PHD in mathematics to see how that would lead to them losing money.
  - morjom 3y ago
    Check the game again, they updated the game recently that revamped and added a lot of features (Cop AI, vehicular combat, clothes arent armor) that should've been there at the start.
    - Der_Einzige 3y ago
      The 2.0 update is extremely overhyped. Even with all of that, it’s still an extremely dull and clunky game. It’s trying to be GTA: Cyberpunk but honestly it’s closer to watchdogs and I had more fun with the watchdogs games.
      - dvngnt_ 3y ago
        it's far cry mixed with deus ex. it's a great game from that perspective and side missions are great in expansion
      - spoiler 3y ago
        I'm replaying with 2.0, and it's honestly a much smoother experience. I'm not sure if it's over hyped. It was small bits here and there, but it was a very holistic overhaul of the game in the end. (FWIW, I'm someone with around a hundred hours in the game)
- epilys 3y ago
  The usual suspect: it's publicly traded.
  - spacemadness 3y ago
    Where all investors demand free money from the Fed and a vastly underpaid and overworked workforce.
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      In this case they're on the Warsaw stock exchange, so I'm not sure how much the Fed turning off the cash hose enters into things.
    - gruez 3y ago
      Public companies don't get "free money from the Fed" in any meaningful sense. The closest thing that has any bearing in reality is that money printing makes interest rates lower, which means they can borrow more with the same amount of money and raise money from investors easier.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Happens all the time in non-publicly traded companies as well, eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telltale_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telltale_Games >[...] but the rate of production created a "crunch time" culture behind the scenes, leaving poor company morale [...] >Internal restructuring led to a layoff of 25% of the company's staff in November 2017 [...] >In the midst of releasing The Walking Dead: The Final Season, the company was forced to initiate a "majority studio closure" after their last investor had pulled out of funding. Telltale announced on September 21, 2018, that it had let go of all but 25 of its staff as part of this closure [...]
Detrytus 3y ago
Ok, so it is a clear sign that CD Projekt is going under. You cannot have a labor union and still be a successful company. Unions are cancer. More to the point: IT job market in Poland is based on freelance (B2B) contracts. The fact that CD Projekt staff can unionize proves that they were mostly employed on Contract of Employment. Which means that all the best stuff have already left CD Projekt long time ago, because no self-respecting programmer would work on Contract of Employment when they can make twice the money as a freelancer.
- kolinko 3y ago
  > You cannot have a labor union and still be a successful company. Huh? A plethora of successful companies in established industries has worker unions - virtually all manufacturing companies, but also service (airlines etc), and so on. IT industry was exception to the rule so far.
- popilewiz 3y ago
  [dead]
- tester756 3y ago
  >because no self-respecting programmer would work on Contract of Employment when they can make twice the money as a freelancer. There are differences between B2B and CoE, yet it is definitely not 2x, unless you are doing overemployment. Probably something like 1/3. It is lowered by "author's costs": tax deductible costs and if you're below specific age, then taxes work in a different way for you on CoE (0% tax below age 26). So in general saying that B2B is always better than CoE is imo bullshit. A lot of depends on your situation and also on the agreements that you have with your 'customer'. There's additional dynamic that may be taken into consideration - when you're on CoE it is harder to fire you and it guarantees you a month or three of safety
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- GalahiSimtam 3y ago
  Most gamedev studio employees are artists, not programmers

78 points by ciceryadam 3y ago

Interesting, seems like developers unionizing is getting popular in Europe. Is there any union for general software devs in Germany? I know workers council (Betriebsrat) is popular but that's very company-dependent.

liquidpele 3y ago
Game companies have notoriously been sweatshops for devs, so not surprising I guess.
felixg3 3y ago
I think you’d be covered under Ver.di. I worked in an IT security consulting firm and was covered
pjmlp 3y ago
Yes, IG Metal is active across many IT related companies, and it was already a thing when I moved here 20 years ago. Game companies and small agencies are the exception actually. If you do IT at a big German company, you will most likely be covered by union agreements, even if not being part of one.

ricardobeat 3y ago

One would expect them to be drowning in cash after the success of The Witcher, and Cyberpunk 2077, 80M+ copies sold. That’s billions of dollars in revenue. Even a headcount of 1000 at SV tech salary levels (which Poland definitely does not have) would barely make a dent. Why cut costs now?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zolbrek 3y ago
The CEO said in July that they were overstaffed. https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-red-organizational-update/ https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-red-organ...
- icegreentea2 3y ago
  Yes. Staring at their financial statements, it looks like revenue is down in 2023. They're probably seeing a faster taper (or smaller revenue bumps from CP fixes) in sales than expected. The wording in the statement really sounds like the typical project based employment thing. Seems like their pipeline got out of wack (maybe the CP fixes and updates?), and they're downgrading sales estimates on future projects, and suddenly you have less slack than before. Sucks. Wish the best for the devs (and their new union) and the company.
snickerbockers 3y ago
Witcher hasn't had a new game in almost a decade (unless you count gwent which i don't) and cyberpunk 2077 was a complete joke until the trigger OVA (and even then it's still extremely broken).
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  Doesn't change the fact they sold over 80 million copies, you can do the math.
  - snickerbockers 3y ago
    yeah they sold 80 million copies three years ago, and now instead of being three years into developing The Next Big Thing they're struggling to catch up to where they were supposed to be in 2020. You don't need a PHD in mathematics to see how that would lead to them losing money.
- morjom 3y ago
  Check the game again, they updated the game recently that revamped and added a lot of features (Cop AI, vehicular combat, clothes arent armor) that should've been there at the start.
  - Der_Einzige 3y ago
    The 2.0 update is extremely overhyped. Even with all of that, it’s still an extremely dull and clunky game. It’s trying to be GTA: Cyberpunk but honestly it’s closer to watchdogs and I had more fun with the watchdogs games.
    - dvngnt_ 3y ago
      it's far cry mixed with deus ex. it's a great game from that perspective and side missions are great in expansion
    - spoiler 3y ago
      I'm replaying with 2.0, and it's honestly a much smoother experience. I'm not sure if it's over hyped. It was small bits here and there, but it was a very holistic overhaul of the game in the end. (FWIW, I'm someone with around a hundred hours in the game)
epilys 3y ago
The usual suspect: it's publicly traded.
- spacemadness 3y ago
  Where all investors demand free money from the Fed and a vastly underpaid and overworked workforce.
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    In this case they're on the Warsaw stock exchange, so I'm not sure how much the Fed turning off the cash hose enters into things.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Public companies don't get "free money from the Fed" in any meaningful sense. The closest thing that has any bearing in reality is that money printing makes interest rates lower, which means they can borrow more with the same amount of money and raise money from investors easier.
- gruez 3y ago
  Happens all the time in non-publicly traded companies as well, eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telltale_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telltale_Games >[...] but the rate of production created a "crunch time" culture behind the scenes, leaving poor company morale [...] >Internal restructuring led to a layoff of 25% of the company's staff in November 2017 [...] >In the midst of releasing The Walking Dead: The Final Season, the company was forced to initiate a "majority studio closure" after their last investor had pulled out of funding. Telltale announced on September 21, 2018, that it had let go of all but 25 of its staff as part of this closure [...]

Detrytus 3y ago

Ok, so it is a clear sign that CD Projekt is going under. You cannot have a labor union and still be a successful company. Unions are cancer. More to the point: IT job market in Poland is based on freelance (B2B) contracts. The fact that CD Projekt staff can unionize proves that they were mostly employed on Contract of Employment. Which means that all the best stuff have already left CD Projekt long time ago, because no self-respecting programmer would work on Contract of Employment when they can make twice the money as a freelancer.

kolinko 3y ago
> You cannot have a labor union and still be a successful company. Huh? A plethora of successful companies in established industries has worker unions - virtually all manufacturing companies, but also service (airlines etc), and so on. IT industry was exception to the rule so far.
popilewiz 3y ago
[dead]
tester756 3y ago
>because no self-respecting programmer would work on Contract of Employment when they can make twice the money as a freelancer. There are differences between B2B and CoE, yet it is definitely not 2x, unless you are doing overemployment. Probably something like 1/3. It is lowered by "author's costs": tax deductible costs and if you're below specific age, then taxes work in a different way for you on CoE (0% tax below age 26). So in general saying that B2B is always better than CoE is imo bullshit. A lot of depends on your situation and also on the agreements that you have with your 'customer'. There's additional dynamic that may be taken into consideration - when you're on CoE it is harder to fire you and it guarantees you a month or three of safety
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
GalahiSimtam 3y ago
Most gamedev studio employees are artists, not programmers