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USA lacks workers in those fields. So the problem is really "how to discover new twchnical expertise labor" to extract those lithium. It is same thing with sola

USA lacks workers in those fields. So the problem is really "how to discover new twchnical expertise labor" to extract those lithium. It is same thing with solar and now silicon chips in USA.

photonbeam 3y ago
Isn’t the problem always that wages for skill is too low, so too few people know it
- Negitivefrags 3y ago
  No, this isn’t always the problem. People are not fungible resources. You can’t simply turn a programmer from Google into a Lithium miner by paying more.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The expertise China has built up is only around 20 years old, so it’s not like we couldn’t develop it in 20 years. Doing so in a free market way that isn’t undercut by Chinese suppliers, however, would be tricky (so some non free market mechanism is needed).
    - chii 3y ago
      > so it’s not like we couldn’t develop it in 20 years. 20 yrs is a very long time.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        It’s not really that long, but I guess it depends on how old you are (perception of passing time speeds up rapidly after 40).
tw04 3y ago
^^Spot on, which is why "subsidizing" renewables is vital to our country's future. All the folks losing their minds are being short-sighted. While I agree in principle that the organizations should be paying their employees more, there's also the reality that China HEAVILY subsidizes their renewables AND has a lower base pay rate. Only one way to compete with that.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Lithium isn't 'renewable'. And just 'subsidizing' things isn't a replacement for actually playing your energy grid and energy production.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Lithium isn't 'renewable' Neither are photons [1] nor individual gusts of wind. Lithium has a theoretically closeable cycle in batteries in a way fossil fuels do not. [1] If you want to be pedantic, the useful energy in a particular photon.
    - gibolt 3y ago
      Exactly. Batteries are being recycled at scale today with 98-95% material recovery rates, depending on the company. We are still early in the development cycle of recycling technology, which means we'll be closer to 99.x% in a decade when the first large wave of EV batteries (from the last decade) could start getting close to End of Life.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Batteries can be recycled at high rates of recovery, but most non-EV lithium batteries aren’t being recycled (basically because they aren’t sent to battery recycling centers given their small sizes). The anti-EV crowd then uses that statistic to deride EVS.
        r00fus 3y ago
panick21_ 3y ago
The world lacks workers in those fields.
iancmceachern 3y ago
Not really, we actually train many of the world's mining and petroleum experts. Many of the people around the world that do this stuff were trained at the various "A&M" or "...School of Mines". The issue is that much of the work ends up being overseas or all over the world. If you go to any mine site in the world, I guarantee you will find American trained Mining/Geophysics/etc engineers Source - I went to the Colorado School of Mines and most of my friends and acquaintances from school work in those 2 industries.
- defrost 3y ago
  Sure .. alongside Scots, Russians, South Africans, Australians, Norwegians, and all the other non US mining engineers. The Canadian TSX is the global centre for listed public mining, Anglo-Australian mining companies dominate there. No one is going to deny the Colorado School of mines their little corner of the pie but they haven't hit "much of" in a clear majority sense by a long shot.
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    Agreed. I was never trying to say it's the whole pie. I'm replying to a parent comment that implies the US has a big deficit in this kind of skill and training, which isn't accurate.

USA lacks workers in those fields. So the problem is really "how to discover new twchnical expertise labor" to extract those lithium. It is same thing with solar and now silicon chips in USA.

photonbeam 3y ago

Isn’t the problem always that wages for skill is too low, so too few people know it

Negitivefrags 3y ago
No, this isn’t always the problem. People are not fungible resources. You can’t simply turn a programmer from Google into a Lithium miner by paying more.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The expertise China has built up is only around 20 years old, so it’s not like we couldn’t develop it in 20 years. Doing so in a free market way that isn’t undercut by Chinese suppliers, however, would be tricky (so some non free market mechanism is needed).
  - chii 3y ago
    > so it’s not like we couldn’t develop it in 20 years. 20 yrs is a very long time.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It’s not really that long, but I guess it depends on how old you are (perception of passing time speeds up rapidly after 40).

tw04 3y ago

^^Spot on, which is why "subsidizing" renewables is vital to our country's future. All the folks losing their minds are being short-sighted. While I agree in principle that the organizations should be paying their employees more, there's also the reality that China HEAVILY subsidizes their renewables AND has a lower base pay rate. Only one way to compete with that.

panick21_ 3y ago
Lithium isn't 'renewable'. And just 'subsidizing' things isn't a replacement for actually playing your energy grid and energy production.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Lithium isn't 'renewable' Neither are photons [1] nor individual gusts of wind. Lithium has a theoretically closeable cycle in batteries in a way fossil fuels do not. [1] If you want to be pedantic, the useful energy in a particular photon.
  - gibolt 3y ago
    Exactly. Batteries are being recycled at scale today with 98-95% material recovery rates, depending on the company. We are still early in the development cycle of recycling technology, which means we'll be closer to 99.x% in a decade when the first large wave of EV batteries (from the last decade) could start getting close to End of Life.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Batteries can be recycled at high rates of recovery, but most non-EV lithium batteries aren’t being recycled (basically because they aren’t sent to battery recycling centers given their small sizes). The anti-EV crowd then uses that statistic to deride EVS.
      - r00fus 3y ago

panick21_ 3y ago

The world lacks workers in those fields.

iancmceachern 3y ago

Not really, we actually train many of the world's mining and petroleum experts. Many of the people around the world that do this stuff were trained at the various "A&M" or "...School of Mines". The issue is that much of the work ends up being overseas or all over the world. If you go to any mine site in the world, I guarantee you will find American trained Mining/Geophysics/etc engineers Source - I went to the Colorado School of Mines and most of my friends and acquaintances from school work in those 2 industries.

defrost 3y ago
Sure .. alongside Scots, Russians, South Africans, Australians, Norwegians, and all the other non US mining engineers. The Canadian TSX is the global centre for listed public mining, Anglo-Australian mining companies dominate there. No one is going to deny the Colorado School of mines their little corner of the pie but they haven't hit "much of" in a clear majority sense by a long shot.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Agreed. I was never trying to say it's the whole pie. I'm replying to a parent comment that implies the US has a big deficit in this kind of skill and training, which isn't accurate.