7 ms·

A complete guide to building a hand-wired keyboard (2020)

98 points by bfm 3y ago

qwerty456127 3y ago
Sounds very interesting. I have looked through premium and "custom" keyboards market recently and found out their customness mostly is about look&feel, key placement and omitting "unnecessary" keys while I want a positively custom set of keys: as many keys as possible - full keypad, multimedia keys separate from f1-12 keys, Windows context menu key, also programmable macro keys if possible, no spatial "optimizations" (when manufacturers try to fit all the keys into as little area as possible) etc. I concluded I will probably have to really build my own. My ideal keyboard would even have a ThinkPad-style trackpoint so I could operate the mouse pointer comfortably without removing my hands from the home row :-)
- rgoulter 3y ago
  > omitting "unnecessary" keys .... without removing my hands from the home row The "keep hands on home row" is the motivation behind omitting the "unnecessary" keys, at least for the keyboards which use a small spacebar and give the thumbs more keys to use. With those small 36-key keyboards, your hands pretty much have nowhere to go except to remain on home row. > as many keys as possible I once saw someone made a keyboard with 450 keys. https://relivesight.com/projects/433/ https://relivesight.com/projects/433/
  - Mizoguchi 3y ago
    These small keyboards are usually ortholinear which also helps reducing hand movement. I switched to a OLKB Preonic over a year ago and haven't looked back. After you get used to the smaller factor and non staggered keys format you realize how ridiculously and unnecessarily huge and clunky traditional keyboards are, even laptop keyboards. It's like traveling with a 65 liters bag for years before you learn you can just carry a 40L and travel with less crap and much lighter. It took me a couple of months to come up with the layout that worked for me (and even today I still optimizing it), but once I figured it out the typing experience became just such much better. The QMK configuration tool makes the process of configuring the layout painless and super quick, so you just need the patience to try and iterate.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      less keys = more cognitive overhead. Having to remember what layer i put fucking pipe on is not better than just hitting the damn key. In ~2000 I started suffering from tendonitis and my coding job became very painful, I tried kind of the 'easy onramp' ergo options at the time, namely the ms 'natural'. It did not help. Eventually someone pointed me at the kinesis advantage (then essential) and I bought one. After some struggle coming to terms with thumb keys and wells and ortholinerness I switched to it for all tasks except for gaming and my symptoms basically disapeared. About 10 years back I was in a job that was potentially going to cause me to travel a lot, at that point I had already modded my kinesis advange keyboards with custom controllers and wanted to try and build something that travelled better, was smaller, while still not fucking up my wrists. I built a lot of keyboards trying to shrink my luggage. I went ortho and built a split preonic, uncomfortable, then I went down the road that leads to corne/iris/etc (thumb keys, vertically aligned but not horizontally aligned). More comfortable but the thing i always ran into when removing keys. Overhead, you have to remember what layer and key you put xyz rarely used symbol on (and when you are a software engineer that's a lot of the symbols).. at the end of the road I built a very low profile board based on the dactyl with the same number of keys as the kinesis advantage minus the f-key chicklets. Reducing the number of layers i have to remember to 1 that only contains the grave and the fkeys. Then covid hit and I didn't have to travel anywhere. I take my dactyl when I go see my parents, and unloaded most of my other boards for cheap. (i kept a 65 that I play games with)
      - rgoulter 3y ago
        > less keys = more cognitive overhead. Right. The benefits of reducing hand travel / stretching come at the cost of additional complexity. Not everyone will be comfortable with that complexity. I find the complexity acceptable; and in many ways more coherent than traditional layouts. e.g. I'd keep slash and backslash (/\) adjacent (or otherwise paired); a question mark (?) is frequent enough even in prose; so, pipe (|) remains paired to backslash. -- But, yeah, it can be annoying for keys which are used very infrequently.
        sleepybrett 3y ago
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    I don't really care that much about the home row (although it's nice to have something right in it so I mentioned). I care about being able to do everything by pressing less keys. Meanwhile a language I often type in (and I type in quite a number of them regularly) has the digits row remapped for extra letters so I can't enter a digit with a single key press without a keypad (I prefer moving a hand to there over using modifier keys). I also make heavy use of F1-12 keys and I have long thin fingers so I woudn't even mind an additional row of keys. Using the mouse every time I want to adjust the sound volume or do something like this is annoying as well. Needless to say I actively use Home, End, PgUp, PgDn and Insert (many compact keyboards lack some of these). At last but not at least, for sake of the muscle memory, I would prefer all the keys to be located at the same places on all the keyboards rather than moved to whatever a place the vendor has been able to fit them in.
- drekipus 3y ago
  Really you probably just want a normal keyboard with some good firmware. I started out with a moonlander, which had a lot of keys (36 each hand) but to be honest, I'm trying to minimise as much as possible, and remove keys from it. That way I'm fully constrained to the home row. Also, layers are amazing and sounds like something you might want to look into. Hold 'a' and use hjkl for media keys, etc. It's all very flexible
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    I never knew there are keyboards with configurable firmwares, also never heard about layers. Your comment sounds very helpful, thank you. By the way I already considered buying a Moonlander because of its 2-part design - I have an idea of possibly using a computer while lying on the floor sort of like in the Shavasana posture with my hands by my sides rather than in front of me.
    - digging 3y ago
      > also never heard about layers I was just discussing this yesterday with a friend. It's funny how rare and technical it is to understand layers when everyone uses layers every day - shift + 3 does not render 3, but #. But we don't talk about it that way.
      - drekipus 3y ago
        I really want to reconfigure some "shift" values, like shift + space should give you an underscore.. but I have to use a layer button for that, not the shift key
- wakeupcall 3y ago
  My impression for the popularity of the 75% form factor is due to laptops and people being accustomed to never have used the "missing" keys in the first place. A tell-tale is that default layout even for thinkpads is to set the Fn row to media keys by default... An increasingly smaller number of people use them, despite being a row of freely remappable keys right _there_. What I've seen happen though is that especially on linux you need two-modifier combos (ctrl-shift/ctrl-alt) to perform what you could have done with a single Fn keystroke. Or burn a few extra keys and increase complexity with layers. I went this route a decade ago, and I'm not a fan personally. Removing the Fn row saves 2cm of vertical space from your desk. I see it as completely pointless, even if you never use the Fn keys. And I don't buy the "reduced finger travel" argument either. Holding the modifiers in weird positions to access an extra layer is usually worse than a more spacious keyboard where your hands can be kept further apart and require less chording. But yeah... I commented on another thread on keyboards, and the current keyboard craze is mostly about customization and looks, and very little about the actual typing experience IMHO (there are exceptions of course..).
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    I completely agree. I never understood this craze of removing keys. The number pad is another example of this. Typing numbers is massively more comfortable (and quicker too) on the number pad than it is with the row of numbers just below the F-keys. The amount of desk space people save is so negligible, particularly when people who buy these keyboards typically work in “paperless” offices, that I never understood the appeal. I guess it boils down to people wanting their keyboards to look pretty rather than being actually useful.
    - where-group-by 3y ago
      I got a keyboard without the numpad due to the looks, but after using it a few years the full sized ones feel too bulky. I have to either move the mouse much further to the right or have my arms bent to the left when typing. Neither of which feels comfortable. I'm sure I could switch back if I needed to, but that extra space is welcome. I agree entering numbers is better on a keypad though.
- thejosh 3y ago
  Keyboards are getting smaller, but I love full size ones for programming. I ended up getting the keychron v6, it's wired but fine. Their wireless keyboards are apparently a bit buggy, not sure if the new ones still are. QMK is an absolute treasure. You can use your web UI to setup custom keymaps and stuff using the chrome USB feature. But I may have went off the rails, as it's pretty simple to completely customise your keyboard with layers etc if you know a bit of C. Warning; this is a gateway into a land of a obsession. :-)
- unnouinceput 3y ago
  Same here. All these modern keyboards are missing a lot of what old one had. The most I miss most is the Alt GR one, the bigger ENTER key and I want a lot of space. Call me fat fingers if you want. So I started to actually create my own. And I want it to be programmable. And movable, as in you can move the key around, enlarge or shrink them. And when I say I want them programmable I meant to pull a little gizmo out of it, hook it up to a separate power source and load preset or connect to computer and use an app to make the keys look different. So far my idea is to have each key include a magnet, an ESP32 chip and a small LED screen on top of it. The controller to all those 110+ ESP32 chips will be a RPi CM4 module, which will also be the USB connection for the PC. That's one iteration because this way I can actually have a click-clack mechanical one. The other iteration is to just have a big ass touch screen and the RPI underneath to just play that as an app that simulates the keyboard. Prettier, way more customizable as key positions/size go but no click-clack sound/feeling. I'm $2000 in my research hole for this with nothing to show up for but is fun. Probably next year I'll finish it :)
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    I agree but I don't need the keys look anything. The best thing happened to my keyboard life so far was having to use a keyboard without the letters of a language I used daily drawn on it. I would rather buy "das keyboard" with purely black keys but it doesn't have enough keys for me to invest in. However, I would love to have your software-defined visually configurable keyboard as a second one on my table and every app using it as a sorg of a "toolbar" / command palette. This was what Apple tried sort of (it would have been nice idea if they didn't sacrifice a real keys row for it). To me it sounds like an additional display with touch support can do the job.
    - unnouinceput 3y ago
      The LED display on top of the key, driven by the ESP32 beneath, will allow you to have anything as the letter there, including Arabic, Japanese or just emoji keyboard layout.
  - jan_Sate 3y ago
onetimeuse92304 3y ago
As an amateur EE, here my thoughts. If you can do CAD you can probably also design a PCB with a socket for some kind of general purpose MCU or even one of ready-made keyboard controllers. Through-hole soldering is IMO actually simpler than making these "spiders" (that's how in my country we call circuits with self-supported wire to wire joints, usually with at least some components hanging in air by their leads). "Spiders" are prone to breaking with any repeatable mechanical strain. In case of this keyboard, what I am seeing is the plastic board will flex and will put repeatable strain on the wires, possibly leading to malfunction at some point. PCB would be much more reliable (if done correctly) as it would take most or all of the load from the joints. A thicker PCB board would actually be more stiff than the plastic board you have here. Not only materials of PCBs tend to be very tough, the PCB, being below the level of the switches, would need much less cutouts that are weakening your plastic mounting board. Stiffness of the board the switches are mounted to is important not just for the reliability, but also for the overall feel of the mechanical keyboard. This "feel" is mainly affected by the switches, the stiffness of the board, and the acoustics of the enclosure. And lastly, as an amateur EE I find "spiders" appealing (if done nicely, artfully). But if you want to showoff for the larger audience that just "don't get it", a custom PCB would immediately score more points.
- fellerts 3y ago
  This method is usually referred to as "Dead Bug" style wiring in English, because the end result usually resembles a dead bug with its legs curled inwards.
  - Luc 3y ago
    IMHO 'dead bug' used to refer to transistors, ICs etc soldered upside down, but it's true that lately it's used more generally. I would call this 'free form' soldering, since there's no dead IC in sight.
  - onetimeuse92304 3y ago
    No, it is not. Although I can't fault you for thinking this as there are so many people using this term incorrectly. "Dead bug" is referring to mounting chips on their back with wires connected to leads going in all directions. Hence "dead" -- live bugs don't usually spend time laying on their backs. When you see it you immediately know why it is called "dead bug"... Here, this is how it looks like: http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2012/11/15/fine-pitch-bga-deadbug-soldering/ http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2012/11/15/fine-pitch-bg... This technique is usually used to connect to leads of packages that usually have their leads hidden on the bottom of the package (for example BGA). These packages usually require a PCB made for them or some kind of adapter. They also require a bit more complex soldering process that might be just out of reach of an enthusiast (like good hot air station or reflow oven, etc.) If you find yourself with a component you want to quickly test and don't have an adapter... you improvise and this may result in a dead bug. I did it a lot of times myself. This technique is also sometimes used in production where they have an existing through hole board (or other board that is incompatible with the process required to mount the component). Sometimes it is easier to just "dead bug" the component than redesign entire board for the new process.
hellweaver666 3y ago
Building your own keyboards is super satisfying. I started off hand-wiring a couple of macropads and then built a 60% handwire and a split ergo. Finally with all the knowledge I learnt I designed a PCB for a macropad and then just scaled up to my own keyboard which is a 50% ortholinear keyboard which has three extra "macro" switches on the side. I found a switch footprint that allows it to take "normal" or "low profile" style switches so I have a version for home and a super slim version for taking to the office. I think the only thing I would do differently now is to dump QMK and use KMK instead as it's Circuit Python based which means that the firmware can be created and edited directly with your favourite IDE (QMK requires installing all sorts of extra software and compiling etc). If the Microcontroller ever dies on this board I will definitely swap it out for a CircuitPython compatible alternative!
- barrenko 3y ago
  Could you please post a picture as well? (this goes out to other enthusiasts in this post)
beeforpork 3y ago
Soldering 1N4148 so close to the glass body, plus using a thick drop of solder, makes it really easy to overheat the diode. They are everywhere because they are cheap, not because they are robust... The diodes may become unconditionally conductive, so it may not be an obvious bug. I fried many of them, because my soldering skills were not that good, I did not read the data sheet and so my iron was too hot and I soldered them for too long. Plus by using short wires, all the heat transferred into that fragile glass body.
sleepybrett 3y ago
If you want to understand how keyboards function go ahead and do this, but unless you want a really wild layout this is just makework. There are cheap, reliable and flexible pcbs for just about every layout you could want available on the open market from sites like kbdfans and aliexpress not to mention dozens of local mom and pop sites that service the mechanical keyboard industry. It's a pretty big hobby these days.
genpfault 3y ago
Any good, mostly-automatic tooling to go from a Keyboard Layout Editor (KLE)[1] JSON to a laid-out (not necessarily routed) PCB design in something like KiCad? [1]: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/
winrid 3y ago
What I really want is a mechanical backlit keyboard without terrible PWM flicker. It's so hard on the eyes. Just regular DC dimming would be ideal.
- thorncorona 3y ago
  Much easier to just up the PWM frequency
  - winrid 3y ago
    My 2018 X1 carbon's laptop backlight, which is adjustable, does not have flicker when recorded in slow-mo, so honestly don't see the excuse really.
  - winrid 3y ago
    Maybe. Are there any with very high PWM frequency? It's not well analyzed right now like screens are.
bmitc 3y ago
Is there a general source of the, seemingly modern day, fascination with keyboards? I buy the Logitech ergonomic mice and keyboards and call it a day, because they save my wrists but aren't crazy, are easy to buy off the shelf, and integrate well together. For example, I use two different mice and a keyboard across two computers with a single USB receiver with just a simple KVM built-in to my monitor. In my personal experience with computers, the keyboard is the least limiting factor with regards to my interaction.
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  It's a mix of three different cultural factors long extant in the programming community which came together to create today's keyboard culture: 1. Keyboard elitism Until as late as the early 2000s, there was a lot of elitism in programming circles about how using the mouse was something only "lusers" did. Keyboarding was supposedly faster than mousing (even though programmers do a lot more thinking than either keyboarding or mousing) and was the mark of an expert user. These communities would often shill certain keyboards, like the IBM Model M, or the Happy Hacking Keyboard (HHKB) because of their resilience and the feedback one felt from clacking the keys. 2. Customizing/Hacking Not much has to be said here. Hackers have been customizing their setups for as long as setups could be customized. The ability to program custom keyboard layouts and make custom keyboard firmware is as iconic hacking as it gets. 3. Setup as identity culture From the late 2000s, Unix Porn and a lot of other "setup porn" stuff became very popular. People would make cool setups that they really identified with and so setting up your keyboard to express your personal identity became a bit of a hacker rite of passage. While keyboard culture may have started with these ingredients, it's definitely its own thing these days. I'm not in it myself but I like watching it from the sidelines and it's really cool to see what people come up with. Cool layouts, custom firmware, colored keys, experimenting with different layouts. It's just like trying to get the perfect emacs config: more bikeshedding than productivity hack, but I mean it's a hobby, and a fun enriching one at that. As you say the more practical thing is to just buy an ergo keyboard that works with your wrists/shoulders/neck and call it a day. I have a Model M from when I was an impressionable teen who thought owning a Model M and not using the mouse was the be-all-end-all of being a power computer user, but I mostly use a Kinesis Ergo for my day-to-day computing needs. I'm at a (hybrid) startup these days and we don't really have a dedicated office to store stuff in so I bring an HHKB in to the office because of its portability. I use trackballs for my mousing. That's about it. Holding my arms, wrists, and back in ergo positions is much more important to me than any keyboard really. Though really rock climbing has been the single thing that helped my wrists beat RSI where nothing else really could.
bArray 3y ago
Rather than use the knife to cut sections out of the wire, I would have considered getting some single core wire and sliding pre-cut heat shrink down it - that way you don't risk cutting into the wire. Just remember to let the core cool between heating/soldering to prevent premature shrinking.

98 points by bfm 3y ago

Sounds very interesting. I have looked through premium and "custom" keyboards market recently and found out their customness mostly is about look&feel, key placement and omitting "unnecessary" keys while I want a positively custom set of keys: as many keys as possible - full keypad, multimedia keys separate from f1-12 keys, Windows context menu key, also programmable macro keys if possible, no spatial "optimizations" (when manufacturers try to fit all the keys into as little area as possible) etc. I concluded I will probably have to really build my own. My ideal keyboard would even have a ThinkPad-style trackpoint so I could operate the mouse pointer comfortably without removing my hands from the home row :-)

rgoulter 3y ago
> omitting "unnecessary" keys .... without removing my hands from the home row The "keep hands on home row" is the motivation behind omitting the "unnecessary" keys, at least for the keyboards which use a small spacebar and give the thumbs more keys to use. With those small 36-key keyboards, your hands pretty much have nowhere to go except to remain on home row. > as many keys as possible I once saw someone made a keyboard with 450 keys. https://relivesight.com/projects/433/ https://relivesight.com/projects/433/
- Mizoguchi 3y ago
  These small keyboards are usually ortholinear which also helps reducing hand movement. I switched to a OLKB Preonic over a year ago and haven't looked back. After you get used to the smaller factor and non staggered keys format you realize how ridiculously and unnecessarily huge and clunky traditional keyboards are, even laptop keyboards. It's like traveling with a 65 liters bag for years before you learn you can just carry a 40L and travel with less crap and much lighter. It took me a couple of months to come up with the layout that worked for me (and even today I still optimizing it), but once I figured it out the typing experience became just such much better. The QMK configuration tool makes the process of configuring the layout painless and super quick, so you just need the patience to try and iterate.
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    less keys = more cognitive overhead. Having to remember what layer i put fucking pipe on is not better than just hitting the damn key. In ~2000 I started suffering from tendonitis and my coding job became very painful, I tried kind of the 'easy onramp' ergo options at the time, namely the ms 'natural'. It did not help. Eventually someone pointed me at the kinesis advantage (then essential) and I bought one. After some struggle coming to terms with thumb keys and wells and ortholinerness I switched to it for all tasks except for gaming and my symptoms basically disapeared. About 10 years back I was in a job that was potentially going to cause me to travel a lot, at that point I had already modded my kinesis advange keyboards with custom controllers and wanted to try and build something that travelled better, was smaller, while still not fucking up my wrists. I built a lot of keyboards trying to shrink my luggage. I went ortho and built a split preonic, uncomfortable, then I went down the road that leads to corne/iris/etc (thumb keys, vertically aligned but not horizontally aligned). More comfortable but the thing i always ran into when removing keys. Overhead, you have to remember what layer and key you put xyz rarely used symbol on (and when you are a software engineer that's a lot of the symbols).. at the end of the road I built a very low profile board based on the dactyl with the same number of keys as the kinesis advantage minus the f-key chicklets. Reducing the number of layers i have to remember to 1 that only contains the grave and the fkeys. Then covid hit and I didn't have to travel anywhere. I take my dactyl when I go see my parents, and unloaded most of my other boards for cheap. (i kept a 65 that I play games with)
    - rgoulter 3y ago
      > less keys = more cognitive overhead. Right. The benefits of reducing hand travel / stretching come at the cost of additional complexity. Not everyone will be comfortable with that complexity. I find the complexity acceptable; and in many ways more coherent than traditional layouts. e.g. I'd keep slash and backslash (/\) adjacent (or otherwise paired); a question mark (?) is frequent enough even in prose; so, pipe (|) remains paired to backslash. -- But, yeah, it can be annoying for keys which are used very infrequently.
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I don't really care that much about the home row (although it's nice to have something right in it so I mentioned). I care about being able to do everything by pressing less keys. Meanwhile a language I often type in (and I type in quite a number of them regularly) has the digits row remapped for extra letters so I can't enter a digit with a single key press without a keypad (I prefer moving a hand to there over using modifier keys). I also make heavy use of F1-12 keys and I have long thin fingers so I woudn't even mind an additional row of keys. Using the mouse every time I want to adjust the sound volume or do something like this is annoying as well. Needless to say I actively use Home, End, PgUp, PgDn and Insert (many compact keyboards lack some of these). At last but not at least, for sake of the muscle memory, I would prefer all the keys to be located at the same places on all the keyboards rather than moved to whatever a place the vendor has been able to fit them in.
drekipus 3y ago
Really you probably just want a normal keyboard with some good firmware. I started out with a moonlander, which had a lot of keys (36 each hand) but to be honest, I'm trying to minimise as much as possible, and remove keys from it. That way I'm fully constrained to the home row. Also, layers are amazing and sounds like something you might want to look into. Hold 'a' and use hjkl for media keys, etc. It's all very flexible
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I never knew there are keyboards with configurable firmwares, also never heard about layers. Your comment sounds very helpful, thank you. By the way I already considered buying a Moonlander because of its 2-part design - I have an idea of possibly using a computer while lying on the floor sort of like in the Shavasana posture with my hands by my sides rather than in front of me.
  - digging 3y ago
    > also never heard about layers I was just discussing this yesterday with a friend. It's funny how rare and technical it is to understand layers when everyone uses layers every day - shift + 3 does not render 3, but #. But we don't talk about it that way.
    - drekipus 3y ago
      I really want to reconfigure some "shift" values, like shift + space should give you an underscore.. but I have to use a layer button for that, not the shift key
wakeupcall 3y ago
My impression for the popularity of the 75% form factor is due to laptops and people being accustomed to never have used the "missing" keys in the first place. A tell-tale is that default layout even for thinkpads is to set the Fn row to media keys by default... An increasingly smaller number of people use them, despite being a row of freely remappable keys right _there_. What I've seen happen though is that especially on linux you need two-modifier combos (ctrl-shift/ctrl-alt) to perform what you could have done with a single Fn keystroke. Or burn a few extra keys and increase complexity with layers. I went this route a decade ago, and I'm not a fan personally. Removing the Fn row saves 2cm of vertical space from your desk. I see it as completely pointless, even if you never use the Fn keys. And I don't buy the "reduced finger travel" argument either. Holding the modifiers in weird positions to access an extra layer is usually worse than a more spacious keyboard where your hands can be kept further apart and require less chording. But yeah... I commented on another thread on keyboards, and the current keyboard craze is mostly about customization and looks, and very little about the actual typing experience IMHO (there are exceptions of course..).
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  I completely agree. I never understood this craze of removing keys. The number pad is another example of this. Typing numbers is massively more comfortable (and quicker too) on the number pad than it is with the row of numbers just below the F-keys. The amount of desk space people save is so negligible, particularly when people who buy these keyboards typically work in “paperless” offices, that I never understood the appeal. I guess it boils down to people wanting their keyboards to look pretty rather than being actually useful.
  - where-group-by 3y ago
    I got a keyboard without the numpad due to the looks, but after using it a few years the full sized ones feel too bulky. I have to either move the mouse much further to the right or have my arms bent to the left when typing. Neither of which feels comfortable. I'm sure I could switch back if I needed to, but that extra space is welcome. I agree entering numbers is better on a keypad though.
thejosh 3y ago
Keyboards are getting smaller, but I love full size ones for programming. I ended up getting the keychron v6, it's wired but fine. Their wireless keyboards are apparently a bit buggy, not sure if the new ones still are. QMK is an absolute treasure. You can use your web UI to setup custom keymaps and stuff using the chrome USB feature. But I may have went off the rails, as it's pretty simple to completely customise your keyboard with layers etc if you know a bit of C. Warning; this is a gateway into a land of a obsession. :-)
unnouinceput 3y ago
Same here. All these modern keyboards are missing a lot of what old one had. The most I miss most is the Alt GR one, the bigger ENTER key and I want a lot of space. Call me fat fingers if you want. So I started to actually create my own. And I want it to be programmable. And movable, as in you can move the key around, enlarge or shrink them. And when I say I want them programmable I meant to pull a little gizmo out of it, hook it up to a separate power source and load preset or connect to computer and use an app to make the keys look different. So far my idea is to have each key include a magnet, an ESP32 chip and a small LED screen on top of it. The controller to all those 110+ ESP32 chips will be a RPi CM4 module, which will also be the USB connection for the PC. That's one iteration because this way I can actually have a click-clack mechanical one. The other iteration is to just have a big ass touch screen and the RPI underneath to just play that as an app that simulates the keyboard. Prettier, way more customizable as key positions/size go but no click-clack sound/feeling. I'm $2000 in my research hole for this with nothing to show up for but is fun. Probably next year I'll finish it :)
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I agree but I don't need the keys look anything. The best thing happened to my keyboard life so far was having to use a keyboard without the letters of a language I used daily drawn on it. I would rather buy "das keyboard" with purely black keys but it doesn't have enough keys for me to invest in. However, I would love to have your software-defined visually configurable keyboard as a second one on my table and every app using it as a sorg of a "toolbar" / command palette. This was what Apple tried sort of (it would have been nice idea if they didn't sacrifice a real keys row for it). To me it sounds like an additional display with touch support can do the job.
  - unnouinceput 3y ago
    The LED display on top of the key, driven by the ESP32 beneath, will allow you to have anything as the letter there, including Arabic, Japanese or just emoji keyboard layout.
- jan_Sate 3y ago

onetimeuse92304 3y ago

As an amateur EE, here my thoughts. If you can do CAD you can probably also design a PCB with a socket for some kind of general purpose MCU or even one of ready-made keyboard controllers. Through-hole soldering is IMO actually simpler than making these "spiders" (that's how in my country we call circuits with self-supported wire to wire joints, usually with at least some components hanging in air by their leads). "Spiders" are prone to breaking with any repeatable mechanical strain. In case of this keyboard, what I am seeing is the plastic board will flex and will put repeatable strain on the wires, possibly leading to malfunction at some point. PCB would be much more reliable (if done correctly) as it would take most or all of the load from the joints. A thicker PCB board would actually be more stiff than the plastic board you have here. Not only materials of PCBs tend to be very tough, the PCB, being below the level of the switches, would need much less cutouts that are weakening your plastic mounting board. Stiffness of the board the switches are mounted to is important not just for the reliability, but also for the overall feel of the mechanical keyboard. This "feel" is mainly affected by the switches, the stiffness of the board, and the acoustics of the enclosure. And lastly, as an amateur EE I find "spiders" appealing (if done nicely, artfully). But if you want to showoff for the larger audience that just "don't get it", a custom PCB would immediately score more points.

fellerts 3y ago
This method is usually referred to as "Dead Bug" style wiring in English, because the end result usually resembles a dead bug with its legs curled inwards.
- Luc 3y ago
  IMHO 'dead bug' used to refer to transistors, ICs etc soldered upside down, but it's true that lately it's used more generally. I would call this 'free form' soldering, since there's no dead IC in sight.
- onetimeuse92304 3y ago
  No, it is not. Although I can't fault you for thinking this as there are so many people using this term incorrectly. "Dead bug" is referring to mounting chips on their back with wires connected to leads going in all directions. Hence "dead" -- live bugs don't usually spend time laying on their backs. When you see it you immediately know why it is called "dead bug"... Here, this is how it looks like: http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2012/11/15/fine-pitch-bga-deadbug-soldering/ http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2012/11/15/fine-pitch-bg... This technique is usually used to connect to leads of packages that usually have their leads hidden on the bottom of the package (for example BGA). These packages usually require a PCB made for them or some kind of adapter. They also require a bit more complex soldering process that might be just out of reach of an enthusiast (like good hot air station or reflow oven, etc.) If you find yourself with a component you want to quickly test and don't have an adapter... you improvise and this may result in a dead bug. I did it a lot of times myself. This technique is also sometimes used in production where they have an existing through hole board (or other board that is incompatible with the process required to mount the component). Sometimes it is easier to just "dead bug" the component than redesign entire board for the new process.

hellweaver666 3y ago

Building your own keyboards is super satisfying. I started off hand-wiring a couple of macropads and then built a 60% handwire and a split ergo. Finally with all the knowledge I learnt I designed a PCB for a macropad and then just scaled up to my own keyboard which is a 50% ortholinear keyboard which has three extra "macro" switches on the side. I found a switch footprint that allows it to take "normal" or "low profile" style switches so I have a version for home and a super slim version for taking to the office. I think the only thing I would do differently now is to dump QMK and use KMK instead as it's Circuit Python based which means that the firmware can be created and edited directly with your favourite IDE (QMK requires installing all sorts of extra software and compiling etc). If the Microcontroller ever dies on this board I will definitely swap it out for a CircuitPython compatible alternative!

barrenko 3y ago
Could you please post a picture as well? (this goes out to other enthusiasts in this post)

beeforpork 3y ago

Soldering 1N4148 so close to the glass body, plus using a thick drop of solder, makes it really easy to overheat the diode. They are everywhere because they are cheap, not because they are robust... The diodes may become unconditionally conductive, so it may not be an obvious bug. I fried many of them, because my soldering skills were not that good, I did not read the data sheet and so my iron was too hot and I soldered them for too long. Plus by using short wires, all the heat transferred into that fragile glass body.

sleepybrett 3y ago

If you want to understand how keyboards function go ahead and do this, but unless you want a really wild layout this is just makework. There are cheap, reliable and flexible pcbs for just about every layout you could want available on the open market from sites like kbdfans and aliexpress not to mention dozens of local mom and pop sites that service the mechanical keyboard industry. It's a pretty big hobby these days.

genpfault 3y ago

Any good, mostly-automatic tooling to go from a Keyboard Layout Editor (KLE)[1] JSON to a laid-out (not necessarily routed) PCB design in something like KiCad? [1]: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/

winrid 3y ago

What I really want is a mechanical backlit keyboard without terrible PWM flicker. It's so hard on the eyes. Just regular DC dimming would be ideal.

thorncorona 3y ago
Much easier to just up the PWM frequency
- winrid 3y ago
  My 2018 X1 carbon's laptop backlight, which is adjustable, does not have flicker when recorded in slow-mo, so honestly don't see the excuse really.
- winrid 3y ago
  Maybe. Are there any with very high PWM frequency? It's not well analyzed right now like screens are.

bmitc 3y ago

Is there a general source of the, seemingly modern day, fascination with keyboards? I buy the Logitech ergonomic mice and keyboards and call it a day, because they save my wrists but aren't crazy, are easy to buy off the shelf, and integrate well together. For example, I use two different mice and a keyboard across two computers with a single USB receiver with just a simple KVM built-in to my monitor. In my personal experience with computers, the keyboard is the least limiting factor with regards to my interaction.

Karrot_Kream 3y ago
It's a mix of three different cultural factors long extant in the programming community which came together to create today's keyboard culture: 1. Keyboard elitism Until as late as the early 2000s, there was a lot of elitism in programming circles about how using the mouse was something only "lusers" did. Keyboarding was supposedly faster than mousing (even though programmers do a lot more thinking than either keyboarding or mousing) and was the mark of an expert user. These communities would often shill certain keyboards, like the IBM Model M, or the Happy Hacking Keyboard (HHKB) because of their resilience and the feedback one felt from clacking the keys. 2. Customizing/Hacking Not much has to be said here. Hackers have been customizing their setups for as long as setups could be customized. The ability to program custom keyboard layouts and make custom keyboard firmware is as iconic hacking as it gets. 3. Setup as identity culture From the late 2000s, Unix Porn and a lot of other "setup porn" stuff became very popular. People would make cool setups that they really identified with and so setting up your keyboard to express your personal identity became a bit of a hacker rite of passage. While keyboard culture may have started with these ingredients, it's definitely its own thing these days. I'm not in it myself but I like watching it from the sidelines and it's really cool to see what people come up with. Cool layouts, custom firmware, colored keys, experimenting with different layouts. It's just like trying to get the perfect emacs config: more bikeshedding than productivity hack, but I mean it's a hobby, and a fun enriching one at that. As you say the more practical thing is to just buy an ergo keyboard that works with your wrists/shoulders/neck and call it a day. I have a Model M from when I was an impressionable teen who thought owning a Model M and not using the mouse was the be-all-end-all of being a power computer user, but I mostly use a Kinesis Ergo for my day-to-day computing needs. I'm at a (hybrid) startup these days and we don't really have a dedicated office to store stuff in so I bring an HHKB in to the office because of its portability. I use trackballs for my mousing. That's about it. Holding my arms, wrists, and back in ergo positions is much more important to me than any keyboard really. Though really rock climbing has been the single thing that helped my wrists beat RSI where nothing else really could.

bArray 3y ago

Rather than use the knife to cut sections out of the wire, I would have considered getting some single core wire and sliding pre-cut heat shrink down it - that way you don't risk cutting into the wire. Just remember to let the core cool between heating/soldering to prevent premature shrinking.