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I once sat on a zoom call with a vision impaired user to do some accessibility testing on our site. First, it was enlightening for me to see how she navigated

I once sat on a zoom call with a vision impaired user to do some accessibility testing on our site. First, it was enlightening for me to see how she navigated through our site using her screen reader. Second when she landed on our booking page we got so embarrassed because she couldn’t use our date picker. A basic HTML version would have done the job. But a few weeks back we had debated over which fancy jquery date picker plugin we should use without considering the impact. It was fancy alright, yet it wasn’t usable at all for this user. I learned and felt many things that day as an engineer. Thinking in depth, across many different personas is a difficult thing to do, let alone building a tool that works well.

Yodel0914 3y ago
There's nothing like working on screen reader compatibility to build a bit of empathy.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
lopis 3y ago
At my job we worked with an accessibility agency to train our devs and designers on web accessibility. It's really enlightening to see someone navigating smoothly with just sound or with 800% zoom. And very embarrassing when your menus just repeat the same "list item" label 5 times because of poor use of semantic HTML.
dgellow 3y ago
That makes me think, how does one learn to use a screen reader? (Or alternatives for other handicaps) It seems fairly technical and challenging to learn, but I feel it would make sense for abled engineers to practice using those. I personally wouldn’t even know where to start, I only enabled the screen reader a few times by mistakes and have no idea how I could learn to be effective with it if I need to at some point in my life.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  Just turn off your monitor.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    You can also learn Linux by just uninstalling Windows. 15 minutes of good starting material will save you untold amounts of unnecessary headache though.
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    If you enable VoiceOver on iOS, you can perform a gesture to enable “screen curtain” which turns off display rendering: a triple-finger triple tap. Great way to test your app for accessibility.
- avtar 3y ago
  > That makes me think, how does one learn to use a screen reader? (Or alternatives for other handicaps) VoiceOver on Mac or NVDA on Windows are good, free options. There's an accessibility playlist on Youtube that provides an introduction to both: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-6WvAihms&list=PLNYkxOF6rcICWx0C9LVWWVqvHlYJyqw7g&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-6WvAihms&list=PLNYkxOF6rc... A more in-depth demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0m7VEHoXMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0m7VEHoXMI
- dirtyid 3y ago
  I've been learning screen readers in my spare time because it seems like a nice screen off way to browse content in bed. It's servicable and maybe even viable way to work if more of the web was tailored for it.
  - dgellow 3y ago
    Surprised it isn’t more common, I would expect nerdy abled people to show off to their friends their cool screen reading skills, just because it’s such a niche, technical, and weird thing to do. I may try out during the weekend.
ryathal 3y ago
It's been a while, but I'm not convinced there is a truly accessible date picker out there. Allowing manual typing of the date seems like the best and only viable option.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Also just typing the date manually is almost always faster than using a date picker. Or at least that's how I perceive it, which is all that matters. I hate apps that force me to take my hands off the keyboard and use the mouse.
  - SilasX 3y ago
    Yep. They increasingly break addons that (try to) enable me to do everything from the keyboard.
  - Tempest1981 3y ago
    For motel stays, it's nice/reassuring to see/select by day-of-the-week.
  - astrospective 3y ago
    Also every year I get a little more resentful of spinner wheels for year of birth that start at the current year.
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    As soon as we solve the whole US-using-a-different-date-format-to-the-rest-of-the-world problem, absolutely. Having it automatically display the day of the week as you type the date would be a big help though.
  - amalcon 3y ago
    The problem is that "just typing the date manually" actually has quite complex i18n issues. It can be done well, but that generally means you make the user explicitly confirm the date they just typed.
- uses 3y ago
johnnyworker 3y ago
Here is an idea: The devs of a site (or an application) are in a video call, with screen sharing or whatever is useful, with a user who has accessibility needs and is using their site/program. A bunch of other devs sit in on it, muted, just learning. Then the devs throw some money in the pot and the user who did the testing gets paid for their time. Everybody wins. Oh, and if all participants agree, the stream is made available for subscribers, and then the user gets royalties off that, too. Does this exist? Can someone make it?
- tripdout 3y ago
  Not a video call but a recording made by the user, and not specifically for accessibility testing, but UserTesting is something similar like that.
- stemlord 3y ago
  You just described what is known as "user testing". They can happen in person, like a focus group, or remotely. Companies reach out to the public for "random" users that fit the given criteria and are paid for their time. You can also use a 3rd party service who will pair you with random testers, for example https://www.usertesting.com/ https://www.usertesting.com/
rexpop 3y ago
> It was fancy alright I don't want to overdo it with high-falutin' theorizing, but I think your firm's definition of "fancy" might be missing some crucial aspects, or maybe "fancy" isn't the right term. Maybe it was "flashy," or "gaudy," or "decorative"? Maybe it was "branded"? Or did it actually offer sighted users a more effective UX?

Yodel0914 3y ago

There's nothing like working on screen reader compatibility to build a bit of empathy.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

lopis 3y ago

At my job we worked with an accessibility agency to train our devs and designers on web accessibility. It's really enlightening to see someone navigating smoothly with just sound or with 800% zoom. And very embarrassing when your menus just repeat the same "list item" label 5 times because of poor use of semantic HTML.

dgellow 3y ago

That makes me think, how does one learn to use a screen reader? (Or alternatives for other handicaps) It seems fairly technical and challenging to learn, but I feel it would make sense for abled engineers to practice using those. I personally wouldn’t even know where to start, I only enabled the screen reader a few times by mistakes and have no idea how I could learn to be effective with it if I need to at some point in my life.

justsomehnguy 3y ago
Just turn off your monitor.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  You can also learn Linux by just uninstalling Windows. 15 minutes of good starting material will save you untold amounts of unnecessary headache though.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  If you enable VoiceOver on iOS, you can perform a gesture to enable “screen curtain” which turns off display rendering: a triple-finger triple tap. Great way to test your app for accessibility.
avtar 3y ago
> That makes me think, how does one learn to use a screen reader? (Or alternatives for other handicaps) VoiceOver on Mac or NVDA on Windows are good, free options. There's an accessibility playlist on Youtube that provides an introduction to both: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-6WvAihms&list=PLNYkxOF6rcICWx0C9LVWWVqvHlYJyqw7g&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-6WvAihms&list=PLNYkxOF6rc... A more in-depth demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0m7VEHoXMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0m7VEHoXMI
dirtyid 3y ago
I've been learning screen readers in my spare time because it seems like a nice screen off way to browse content in bed. It's servicable and maybe even viable way to work if more of the web was tailored for it.
- dgellow 3y ago
  Surprised it isn’t more common, I would expect nerdy abled people to show off to their friends their cool screen reading skills, just because it’s such a niche, technical, and weird thing to do. I may try out during the weekend.

ryathal 3y ago

It's been a while, but I'm not convinced there is a truly accessible date picker out there. Allowing manual typing of the date seems like the best and only viable option.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Also just typing the date manually is almost always faster than using a date picker. Or at least that's how I perceive it, which is all that matters. I hate apps that force me to take my hands off the keyboard and use the mouse.
- SilasX 3y ago
  Yep. They increasingly break addons that (try to) enable me to do everything from the keyboard.
- Tempest1981 3y ago
  For motel stays, it's nice/reassuring to see/select by day-of-the-week.
- astrospective 3y ago
  Also every year I get a little more resentful of spinner wheels for year of birth that start at the current year.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  As soon as we solve the whole US-using-a-different-date-format-to-the-rest-of-the-world problem, absolutely. Having it automatically display the day of the week as you type the date would be a big help though.
- amalcon 3y ago
  The problem is that "just typing the date manually" actually has quite complex i18n issues. It can be done well, but that generally means you make the user explicitly confirm the date they just typed.
uses 3y ago

johnnyworker 3y ago

Here is an idea: The devs of a site (or an application) are in a video call, with screen sharing or whatever is useful, with a user who has accessibility needs and is using their site/program. A bunch of other devs sit in on it, muted, just learning. Then the devs throw some money in the pot and the user who did the testing gets paid for their time. Everybody wins. Oh, and if all participants agree, the stream is made available for subscribers, and then the user gets royalties off that, too. Does this exist? Can someone make it?

tripdout 3y ago
Not a video call but a recording made by the user, and not specifically for accessibility testing, but UserTesting is something similar like that.
stemlord 3y ago
You just described what is known as "user testing". They can happen in person, like a focus group, or remotely. Companies reach out to the public for "random" users that fit the given criteria and are paid for their time. You can also use a 3rd party service who will pair you with random testers, for example https://www.usertesting.com/ https://www.usertesting.com/

rexpop 3y ago

> It was fancy alright I don't want to overdo it with high-falutin' theorizing, but I think your firm's definition of "fancy" might be missing some crucial aspects, or maybe "fancy" isn't the right term. Maybe it was "flashy," or "gaudy," or "decorative"? Maybe it was "branded"? Or did it actually offer sighted users a more effective UX?